The infuriating cases of people who lack rationality.

I love talking about biology, evolution, Atheism, Theology, and so forth, but at times I find myself seeing red after someone responds so shockingly to the topic at hand it actually does make me face palm.

This isn't to say that "no one else can have or voice their own opinion", I love debating and where's the fun in that when no one else is allowed to challenge your position? So that's not the issue. It's when some individuals (and yes, it is rare) go beyond the realm of rational thinking and so obviously run from any information that's new to them, or different from their beliefs.

I Just had a conversation with an individual (whom I will not name out of their privacy), who felt the need to join a topic revolving around Evolution. This individual had extreme opposing views on evolution, and anyone else who accepted it; continuously belittling them and misinterpreting what the concepts he opposed really were defined as.

So I decided to hop in and correct some suppositions which where not accurate. They had listed a number of questions in in their comment which he claimed was "The Achilles heel of Evolutionists". They all related to how life started, where it started, why it started, and what the purpose of life was. In case you're unaware, none of these questions have anything to do with evolution (as Evolution is only what occurs to life once it already exists).

So I answer each question individually, and explain that they don't relate to Evolution. They then immediately go off on a tangent about how dishonest and manipulative "evolutionists" are and then stated that I didn't even answer his questions.

It kind of continued on that way (and is still continuing).

What I want to know is just how someone can possibly think this way? Not just in the topic I gave as an example, but in any discussion. To go beyond the scope of ignoring things and really feeling as if they didn't see it at all. It's more than simply plugging their ears and yelling random things so they can't here you, it's as if they really, literally, cannot see it.

It makes me wonder if there is any brain scan researchers who are looking at any individual with an extreme view who acts such as this individual has done. I want to know if there are actually sections of the brain (such as sight, critical thinking, and memory) which actually shut off when something challenges whatever it is they hold so closely to them.

Anyways, that's that!

Sometimes you just have to drop a sand bag.
Assuming you want to gain elevation.

Sadly when 'faith' enters the equation it becomes all but science. People fear death/afterlife so they want to buy a place in their version of heaven. They're easy to spot though: when they run out of logical answers they use sentences with numbers at the end.

a reply to: Ghost147

I've been in and seen similar situations as to what you described. It is my belief that it is impossible for some people to see things rationally, realistically and logically.

The reason being is that it is very hard for some people to see anything, because their heads are so firmly planted up their asses.

I'm sure they feel the same way about your opinion sometimes too...best to not let it get to you emotionally...either laugh about it, shrug it off, or dive into it with all that your brain can muster. You have to maintain control. Creationism versus Evolution is an endless debate, and there's no facts that can be PROVEN by either side. Faith based people choose to rightly believe in creation as God made it, and evolutionists are hardcore in arguing their misguided beliefs. It will probably stay that way.

while I believe the theory of evolution is flawed I still believe we evolved and are in a constant state of evolving or even de-evolving.

I question why scientists cannot see that animals can have strong relationships with each other and that they could have cared for the other animals and taken them through rough times. Survival of the fittest is not the only thing to consider, if it was, humans would have long been extinct. We made friends with other animals and this symbiotic friendship helped us survive.

I do not agree with those who will not budge of the theory of evolution. The thing is flawed and the answer is somewhere between being linked with a being, possibly a collective consciousness, and evolving and blending with other similar species. It is possible that the neandarthals actually taught us how to survive. We will never really know and science cannot possibly know exactly what happened.

We are here now and we should respect nature and the earth that provides a place for us to live. We should live symbiotically with other species. We can eat them but not to extinction and treat our food well if we rear it for food.

We have strayed from our path as caretakers of this planet. There is more to this than we are being told by science, something is not right with what we are being led to believe really exists. Science is a tool that is used by both good and evil, but it seems that the rules of science were created some of the time by corrupt policy.

So I believe in evolution but not the present theory. I am not going to get into creationism other to say, I am never going to discount that some being that we cannot completely fathom exists and that it guided the creation of this reality.

a reply to: Ghost147

we can debate all day long
however one thing I can't deny is the side effect of this debate. problem is my debate would be purely phylosophical however it is one undiniable fact you present here - in reality this is not just a debate but a way of life
religious lobbiest sponsoring our politicians
Oh Lord how scary

I believe it's because of micro-indoctrination with a healthy dose of inculcation. People believe or "have faith" in something so firmly (over time) that they'll resort to any tactic, even subconsciously, to prove their point even if it's entirely baseless in reality. They're a byproduct of their society and childhood. To them, their arguments sound like the only truth to have ever/or will ever exist. I found myself doing this with my own beliefs, only until relatively recently (within the last 5 years) have I come down to earth. There's a point at which you have to accept that you don't know, what you don't know. I fear some people (possibly most) will never come to that realization and they will continue to argue about the inexorable validity of their delusion.

In these situations, you just have to agree to disagree and walk away.

You can lead a blind man to water, but you can't make him drink

I have never seen evolution and creationism as mutually exclusive. I do understand your rant though. Just be aware that those that are Atheists and even some who 'worship' at the altar of science can be just as dimwitted and suffer from the same lack of proof.

I think Eistein was correct to suggest that some mixture of science and the divine is necessary to find real truth and answers.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I have never seen evolution and creationism as mutually exclusive. I do understand your rant though. Just be aware that those that are Atheists and even some who 'worship' at the altar of science can be just as dimwitted and suffer from the same lack of proof.

I think Eistein was correct to suggest that some mixture of science and the divine is necessary to find real truth and answers.

He means evolution vs. 7 day creation. Not those who believe god started the ball rolling then added his conciousness (the made in his image part) along the way. The ones who really believe the flood myth, specifically the part about one family repopulating the earth, incesting us into existance. There is no unifying science with a literal interpritation of the bible (really the Torah part).....so the only way to believe it still works is to reject all reality...

I love doing 'drive-bys' on Evolution (with a capital E) threads. The supposition that evolution occurs bears as much weight as creation. Neither "has been" proven nor disproven. It's as simple as that. I don't care which side of the argument's skin I get under, but I think it may be the Evolutionst's I prefer. LOL. They tend to rile-up a bit easier and we can have a lively debate.

Personal to LSMD: I haven't opted into the number thingy ... but, that sure did make me laugh.

a reply to: Ghost147


oh man you are never going to understand it, some of us just believe what we believe. Kind of like how I believe the Devil is using all of these new portable and reality altering technologies to project evil messages into our brains with his minion of evil men that control the world who have sold their souls for the (dis)honor of the illusion that they are subjugating the world, but are fooling themselves.

Yea we are a crazy lot, but this is America man so you just going to have to laugh it off and call us crazy. Now I personally believe that God (or perhaps ancient alien beings that infantile human societies perceived as gods) had some role in seeding life here, but that evolution mostly worked its way around to explain for most of the life on Earth. Some things clearly have to be alien, like the horseshoe crab. Who the hell else has copper based blood on this planet right?? I mean WTF is all that about??

Bro like for real, I think horeshoe crabs might be alien. I used to see them all the time in the estuaries around here. Now I only find the occasional dead one. Almost like they are hiding or something ....

a reply to: Ghost147

Well patriotism is a religion in its own right. You see the same blind beliefs and plugging of ears there as well.An open mind is the best defense to being blind sided. But when your willfully blind,you can't help but have it coming.

originally posted by: Ghost147

What I want to know is just how someone can possibly think this way? Not just in the topic I gave as an example, but in any discussion. To go beyond the scope of ignoring things and really feeling as if they didn't see it at all. It's more than simply plugging their ears and yelling random things so they can't here you, it's as if they really, literally, cannot see it.

delusion
[dih-loo-zhuh n]

Psychiatry.
a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact
a false idea or belief that is caused by mental illness

I don't know if it's against the rules to say this, but the conspiracy theory and the mental illness crowds often overlap.

The proportion of mentally ills on ATS is very likely higher than in the general population.

This is a problem that exists whatever the philosophical stance. Some religious people are deluded, some atheists are deluded. When someone is incapable of processing and accepting a fact and treat it like an opinion, there is a great chance that he is deluded.

originally posted by: Snarl
I love doing 'drive-bys' on Evolution (with a capital E) threads. The supposition that evolution occurs bears as much weight as creation. Neither "has been" proven nor disproven. It's as simple as that. I don't care which side of the argument's skin I get under, but I think it may be the Evolutionst's I prefer. LOL. They tend to rile-up a bit easier and we can have a lively debate.

Personal to LSMD: I haven't opted into the number thingy ... but, that sure did make me laugh.

Creationism as a theory exist almost exclusively in the US and a few Muslim countries. That's all you need to know about its plausibility.



Even the Vatican accepts evolution as a mechanism of life.

As of 2006 most Christians around the world accepted evolution as the most likely explanation for the origins of species, and did not take a literal view of the Genesis creation myth. The US is an exception where belief in religious fundamentalism is much more likely to affect attitudes towards evolution than it is for believers elsewhere. Political partisanship affecting religious belief may be a factor because political partisanship in the US is highly correlated with fundamentalist thinking, unlike in Europe.

a reply to: Ghost147

Some people just like to argue for its own sake and no real interest in the subject matter accept winining.

Some people cant see the wood for the trees
'
For some people there are no shades of grey.

For some people,no matter what, I'm right, your wrong

Don't argue with idiots cos they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

a reply to: Ghost147
Buddha once said...
"Sometime, somewhere you take something to be the truth. If you cling to it so much, when the truth comes in person and knocks on your door, you will not open it."

I think we all have our blind spots. We all have those ideas we hold sacred, and refuse to hear reason on. Whether it's nature or nurture that makes us that way, I don't know, but it seems to be a trait that is common to all of us.

The truth is, we really KNOW very little, about anything. We know what we've read, and been told, unless we have personal experience, which can also be ambiguous.

I don't know evolution is right, because I only know what I've read, and been told. I neither have the knowledge, or the means to test it for myself to the extent that scientists have. So I must take their data and word for it. Unlike a computer, which I have much experience with. I can read about them, and have definitive evidence the science is sound, because I am using one right now to type this. That would not be the case, if I had never seen or used a computer.

I don't know there isn't a creator(s), because I have no way of truthfully observing and testing such a hypothesis. I only know that I once held a belief in God, whereas now I lack any belief in the concept of deities and divinity. Experience and information gleaned convinced me my formerly held faith was erroneous. Though for decades I held to it tightly, and would not hear the reasonings of those who tried to persuade me otherwise.

I do believe it is in our nature to utilize faith in our daily lives, in ways we are often unconscious of.

/philosophical monologue

a reply to: Ghost147

Confirmation bias makes people think and act strangely.

a reply to: Snarl

Is this post here just to rile up evolutionists?

Because, there's quite a bit of tangible evidence to prove evolution..

a reply to: Ghost147

I was in that thread and remember the person. I think he was just trying to save face at some point by attacking the person instead of the argument. I remember once I was in an argument on here saying that no one truly knows if god exists 100% ...it is just something people believe....then someone fired back "How do you know god hasn't spoken to me thus showing me that he does exist". It stopped me in my tracks as I really didn't know that, no matter how unlikely...and it ruined my whole argument I had been using for years. It shut me up ....haha ...of course I still use the argument. I think with some people if you offer a good counter argument its like a personal attack or something and they just implode. Sometimes I'll throw down a counter argument and then im ignored all thread by those that disagree.