Lost knowledge due to religion

Its thanks to religion that we are still here today.

Imagine if it was all science and the technology that we have today, we had back in 1858.

Then one year later every computer in the northern hemisphere gets fried.

The solar storm of 1859, also known as the Carrington event.

No computers, no electricity, no internet, nothing.

Imagine what America would be like 3 days from today if all electricity got vaporised !!!

Just be thankful that Yahweh has looked after His people that have inhabited this world since Day 6.

Please tell me you are not trying to sell us it was all part of a plan, but your angry daddy figure up in the sky...

This is exactly ignorance we are still fighting today. Look at Islam, only countries that have any progress (and that was very minimal) were the one that took power from religious leadership?! (Turkey and Pakistan) Unfortunately, both of them are under lots of pressure to give up all this progress to fanaticism and to some degree I would call it primitive, as there is no nice word to describe state where children and almost all girls are forbidden to learn, where people are being sold as animals...

Great job your Yehwah has done... just look at this thread...

a reply to: Rapha

Just be thankful that Yahweh has looked after His people that have inhabited this world since Day 6.

...wait a sec. wasnt that the dude that just kinda sat by and watched as 20 million of his followers were murdered in cold blood like cattle? im assuming he was there. im told he is all-knowing and all-present so that makes it kind of hard to miss attempted genocide on his precious earth. yet all those poor helpless people still died. he allowed a single man to slaughter his children by the thousands, and left it to us to hold that man accountable.

but sure, he looked after them. right.

S+F good stuff frog! Reminds me of a Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quotes.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

You have a PM!

originally posted by: SuperFrog
Please tell me you are not trying to sell us it was all part of a plan, but your angry daddy figure up in the sky...

Great job your Yehwah has done... just look at this thread...

Have you ever wondered if Satan was told to do the Apple of Knowledge event so as to allow mankind to learn Dualism ?

Its all part of the grand plan.

Islam is under Satan's control. Christianity is under Yahweh's control.

i thought that was basic knowledge.

If you are going to state that all religion is holding this world back then why not start building you own NWO Auschwitz gas chambers. Oh they already are - FEMA camps. And who built them - atheists under the control of Satan.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
but sure, he looked after them. right.

Yes, most of them are with Jesus Christ now in the new paradise whilst they await His second coming.

So yes, 4-5 years of hell compared to 80+ years in paradise is a deal worth living for.

So funny to see your post getting stars. No wonder, the daemons are laughing their heads off right now, itching to walk through the star gates at CERN, grab all spiritually dead zombies and drag them to hell screaming. LOL

originally posted by: Rapha
If you are going to state that all religion is holding this world back then why not start building you own NWO Auschwitz gas chambers. Oh they already are - FEMA camps. And who built them - atheists under the control of Satan.

Who built the FEMA camps? Do you have a list of names and religious affiliation to share? Or are you making a vast generalization/assumption?

Another point. Satan is under the control of Yahweh, is he not?

So who really deserves blame?

Why doesn't Satan just defeat God by refusing to fulfill prophecy?

They must be working together.

originally posted by: Rapha
Have you ever wondered if Satan was told to do the Apple of Knowledge event so as to allow mankind to learn Dualism ?

You can't be serious...

originally posted by: Rapha
Its all part of the grand plan.

Why then pray? If there is grand plan, what does your pray supposed to do? Confuse God and make him change his plan? I think you are not even aware how whole thing just does not make much sense...

originally posted by: Rapha
Islam is under Satan's control. Christianity is under Yahweh's control.

Is this one of those thing - my religion is best... while only reason you belong to it is by pure luck of being born where you were born... Just funny, and from what I know, both Christians and Muslims are praying (again not sure why, if god has grand plan) to the same God... Seems you know very little about Islam...

originally posted by: Rapha
i thought that was basic knowledge.

Nah... this has nothing to do with 'knowledge'... this is just very sad fact that grown person can believe folklore tale and say something like this...

originally posted by: Rapha
If you are going to state that all religion is holding this world back then why not start building you own NWO Auschwitz gas chambers. Oh they already are - FEMA camps. And who built them - atheists under the control of Satan.

Quote delusional... without any evidence... Who built FEMA camps?? Care to provide your some evidence to your claim, or this is also something you have to believe without much of evidence...

originally posted by: Rapha

originally posted by: TzarChasm
but sure, he looked after them. right.

Yes, most of them are with Jesus Christ now in the new paradise whilst they await His second coming.

So yes, 4-5 years of hell compared to 80+ years in paradise is a deal worth living for.

So funny to see your post getting stars. No wonder, the daemons are laughing their heads off right now, itching to walk through the star gates at CERN, grab all spiritually dead zombies and drag them to hell screaming. LOL

Did you say 'star gate'??

I hope you are just high... that would be simplest explanation...

Please note, this is not topic, topic is how people believing all that what you mentioned so far almost halted all progress for ~1K years, while Islam is still at full break... no progress whatsoever...

If you waited to them to create you ac computer... question would we ever have one... and worst of it... 1K years ago they were ahead... they put together numerical system we use today. (how do you call our numerical system?)

I feel it isn't religion by itself that caused this, but instead, people who were corrupt with the power they found within their positions as authorities of the predominate religion.

Science was not something that was wrong to them, but a threat to them. They themselves enjoyed wielding the power to tell others all of reality. People corrupt with their power within the religion to dictate to their subjects as the ONLY authority on everything and using and twisting the bible to give credence to themselves.

Claiming themselves as the ones all must come to, and science interfered with this when discoveries and finding in science clashed with those who were trying to be the authority on everything. It would take away their power and authority and show them to be FRAUDS and would have shown they did not have the best interests of their brother and sisters in their hearts.

Galileo is a perfect example. Those in the church then were not representing God or the truth, but only their own zeal to exemplify themselves and exalt themselves as if they shared the throne of the most high.

Now we have in the continuing aftermath of that, people claiming it wasn't man's fault, but religion. Man now bashing religion and continuing to make the same mistakes that those within the earlier churches used to claim their authority.

Foolish then, and foolish now. Always casting responsibility on something else, or someone else, and then continuing to do the same things that those in those earlier churches did.

I think this is much closer to reality.

a reply to: SuperFrog
Thank you, good thread topic

This thread in my opinion can serve two purpose, collection of lost knowledge due to religion as well as trying to figure out is religion doing this on purpose (dumbing people to make them more manageable) or if there might be conspiracy going behind all of this...

I think I'd like to explore this on a cultural viewpoint. It's very complex and I think people sometimes get stuck looking at this as religion vs science. Much of what we see going on is more of a religion of cultural tradition vs new view religion. In debates this gets confused. What is cultural tradition gets called new fangled and what is actually new fangled gets called tradition.

The source material that I'm working from is a look at Roman Mos maiorum.

The mos maiorum ("ancestral custom" or "way of the elders," plural mores, with maiorum a genitive plural; cf. English "mores") is the unwritten code from which the ancient Romans derived their social norms. It is the core concept of Roman traditionalism, distinguished from but in dynamic complement to written law. The mos maiorum was collectively the time-honoured principles, behavioural models, and social practices that affected private, political, and military life in ancient Rome.

New fangle Christianity actually disrupted traditional values, and substituted revealed truth as basis for public and private behavior.

During the transition to the Christian Empire, Symmachus argued that Rome's continued prosperity and stability depended on preserving the mos maiorum, while the early Christian poet Prudentius dismissed the blind adherence to tradition as "the superstition of old grandpas" (superstitio veterum avorum) and inferior to the new revealed truth of Christianity

People in Western Culture live in a post-Christian culture. While some of the values of ancient tradition are the same, many are not. What is not the same is a reliance on so-called revealed morality. Human morality pre-dates what we think of as revealed morality by a long shot.

Some Christians think of themselves as being conservative when in fact they are radical.

Down at the bottom of the Wikipedia article are listed the virtues in pre-Christian Rome. This list has a very remarkable resemblance to the lists in the neo-Pagan religions today. I suspect that neo-Paganism should be considered to be the closer representation of conservative values.

So here's my tentative conclusion. What has been lost is the ability for people to consider as morality the virtues seen in those outside of their own narrow revelation.

And here is my evidence: Statements that sound like this: "I know some Buddhists who are actually good people", "Even though he is so moral seeming, too bad he's lost", "There's nothing preventing an atheist from being a child molesting mass murder." The fact that these sorts of statements are made is proof that we have lost something.

Thank you again for the thread.

a reply to: JUhrman

The most virulent American atheists are slowly but surely becoming caricatures of the religious fundies they criticize all the time.

Are you referring to celebrity atheists or atheists on forums?

Americans have a strange fascination with celebrities. It's as if once someone becomes famous they are given an honorary expert status, as if their opinions about subjects outside their area of expertise is worth more than another's opinion outside their area of expertise.

Then the poor celebrity gets stuck in a role they aren't particularly well suited for. For instance a biologist with no expertise in religion finds himself put in the position of speaking as an authority about religion. Perhaps he should step aside for his own sake. Then again, perhaps people should take his opinions as his opinion. It's a two sided problem.

They have no interest in the truth, they only want to see religions disappear because they hate them with a passion.

I think I've read some of these people's posts. I think that the problem with them is that they enter the debate after the false dichotomy of science/religion has already been pre-made.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Was middle age church fundamentalist? Where did inquisition come from and what about crusades??

Inquisition and Crusades are post dark age. These are examples of historic movements that gained momentum. Not solely secular political or religion motivated. Kind of collusion for selfish interest. They weren't coming from the people's religious beliefs. They were from minority elite interests. 1 King seems rather minority, yet the authority flowed that way to the people. The people were then propagandized.

Compare a modern example. The Nazi party was a very minority political party all through the 1920s and the beginning of 1930s. They were not what we would refer to as representative of German thinking. Yet once they gained the political position, that minority became the icon for Germany. With all the propaganda going on it would be very difficult to even determine the actual popularity of Nazism and the perceived popularity.

a reply to: Klassified

I wouldn't say science itself is religious. Science is a methodology.

That's a good point. Similarly, magic isn't a religion, it's a methodology. Specific religions sometimes proscribe some magic practices while endorsing others. It isn't magic they condemn in a blanket manner, just some magic.

I'm not certain. Is magic one of the things commonly held to be delusion in scientific and or atheist community?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Klassified

I wouldn't say science itself is religious. Science is a methodology.

That's a good point. Similarly, magic isn't a religion, it's a methodology. Specific religions sometimes proscribe some magic practices while endorsing others. It isn't magic they condemn in a blanket manner, just some magic.

I'm not certain. Is magic one of the things commonly held to be delusion in scientific and or atheist community?

Depends on the atheist. Some are strict adherents to science, some lean to the spiritual side of things. The latter would be more likely to allow for some things in life that are beyond sciences ability to explain at present. Like magic.

a reply to: Rapha

Have you ever wondered if Satan was told to do the Apple of Knowledge event so as to allow mankind to learn Dualism ?

What is your definition of Dualism when used in this context?

a reply to: Klassified

I can't believe I finally caught up! I got into the thread late.

The latter would be more likely to allow for some things in life that are beyond sciences ability to explain at present. Like magic.

I'm differentiating miracle from magic here.

Miracle by my definition would be not confirmable because of its one time non-repeatable nature.

Magic would be repeatable so should be confirmable. For example a faith healer who every time he says "in the name of ... be healed". That would be a repeatable formulaic ritual which should be able to be confirmed if true.

ETA

It sounds kind of rhetorical when written that way. Okay, don't feel that I'm demanding an answer. I should think about it some more.

Is everybody out for Mother's Day or something? Or is there a more interesting thread that they've migrated to?

a reply to: Rapha

No wonder, the daemons are laughing their heads off right now, itching to walk through the star gates at CERN, grab all spiritually dead zombies and drag them to hell screaming.

Wait! What? Are you saying CERN is a gateway to hell?

Are you saying daemons are conspiring against people? Do you have a thread about this conspiracy?

Why would spiritually dead zombies be screaming?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Hey WakeUpBeer,

Did we miss most of this or what?

They must be working together.

I think he implied it in a previous post, through rhetorical question.

a reply to: pthena

Yes, he implied there may be a level of collusion between the two. I'm not sure exactly what he believes about their relationship though. Maybe it's a good cop bad cop thing. Questions shall bring more clarification!

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I was going to make a general comment so no one would feel any compulsion to answer. I think I would be correct in saying that you identify as atheist.

My general observation is based upon my close association with an Atheist who describes herself as spiritual but not religious. Through conversations with her, I would sort of label what she calls spirituality as empathy for people who need emotional support. And the ability to discriminate between those who need and those who are needy(pejorative use).

I think what we need is a new set of vocabulary.

Instead of calling cults religion, just go back to the Roman custom of identifying groups with a particular deity and ritual as the cult of.

That would leave the word religion as a cultural term encompassing what may be called Secular Religion.

In my mind that would help alleviate the problem of false dichotomy religion/science.