Becareful Rapture is Heresy! it seems is for the evildoers not for the Saved ones!

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear readers,

The Rapture is an extremely controversial topic, for various reasons:

- It is not clearly defined in the New Testament, is more an inference or conjecture to which certain Theologians , specially in the
Protestant side, have arrived based on very small fragments of some books of the Bible.

- The parts of the gospels that apparently support the idea are subject of more than one interpretation and when you read all together the
image that emerge is completely different than what the supporters or followers of the Rapture claim. As a matter of fact it looks that the
correct interpretation goes in the other way around, who is going to be taken away is who is not saved at all, who will be sent to hell.

- It is an idea that supports a version of Christianism that is clearly sectarian, it is pretty excluding, for which Salvation is a gift reserved
for a really tiny minority of people that supposedly at the end of the times will be taken away by Angels. Hence, it supports a religion which core is to promote social elites or secret societies of few privileged persons that abandon the planet leaving back millions that are destined for destruction.

- It has been along decades linked with some of the most weird episodes of fundamentalism and fanaticism in the western world, even
to the point to promote collective suicides in sects, kidnapping of civilians by mad leaders and grave cases of abuse or to boost and exploit the panic among the most innocent and vulnerable people. Many have even developed very tempting economic projects for eccentric rich people to make their own Rapture, like to sale in advance tickets to travel to the space station, just in case, or to move to the moon or to mars.

- It portraits a God that is not coming in Love to save humanity, but to destroy completely the world and to preserve only a very small part of the human genre for future to populate another earth, possibly in other solar system, in other words a God that does not look proud of his own creation here and don't care about anybody really.

- Rapture suggest that the sacrifice of Christ essentially was useless, that the great majority of humanity will be condemned and exterminated, something that contradicts the spirit of the good news of the Gospel. It also facilitates the deceiving of people in hands of corrupt religious scammers that claim to have the copyrights or patent of Jesus Salvation plan and also the exclusivity to decide that only their followers, who pay them their contributions, are going to be saved.

Well, today it was published an analysis that has been carried out by specialists in scriptures, a multidisciplinary team of scholars, that after
correlate the different supposedly evidences in favor of the rapture from different books of the New Testament have arrived to the conclusion that Rapture possibly will occur but not for the saved ones, to the contrary, to remove from this earth for ever the evildoers!

Here is the link to this really interesting material, a deep discussion on what is the Rapture by the Christian Bible Society, and of course the thread is open to the discussion of the topic.

www.newsmax.com...

By the way this is the first serious discussion on the Myth or reality about the Rapture since the change of Millenium and also since the publication of the first book attacking the idea and exposing it as one of the greatest Heresies of History, it was written by Colonel H. Speed Wilson (Daring Publisher). 1989 and its Title is : "RAPTURE! PROPHECY OR HERESY"

www.demonbuster.com...

Here below some of the quotes of the Old and New Testament that warns us that the Rapture is a cleaning operation against the Evildoers to
remove from this earth who does not deserve to inherit the world to come.

Thanks for your attention

The Angel of Lightness

St John 17:15 (JESUS praying to The Father) "I pray NOT that thou shouldest TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, but that thou should keep them from evil."

St Luke 17:37, WHERE THERE IS A DEAD BODY, THERE THE VULTURES WILL GATHER.

St Matthew 13:47-50 (Jesus speaking) Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea and gathered of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but THREW THE BAD AWAY. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and SEVER THE WICKED from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire..

I Thessalonians 5:3 (Paul speaking) For when THEY (THE WICKED) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction shall come upon THEM...and they shall not escape

Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall NEVER be REMOVED;

Proverbs 25:4,5 Take AWAY the dross from the silver...Take AWAY THE WICKED from before the King...

Psalm 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land (earth) and dwell therein FOREVER.

Psalm 37:9-11 For evildoers (WICKED) shall be cut off (destroyed); but those that wait upon the Lord shall inherit the earth.

I'm not afraid of the rapture (despite being a fantastically sinful individual), but that's mainly due to the fact that I have an absence of belief in any gods.

Actually, I find it about amusing when people go off on a tangent and claim the "rapture is coming" (not saying that's what you're doing by the way). I'll just be happy with the evidence of the nature around us that opposes the likelihood of religious concepts.

Now, what I am afraid of is some random biological issue with our species which could wipe us out (along side our species wiping its own self out). Natural selection is much more scary than a concept of an angry invisible man. Probably because of the evidence we have for it.

www.spiritofthescripture.com...
The Rapture of the Saints: It’s Not About Flying!

I kind of liked this gnostic article on the rapture. Though have to say, if a series of events were set in motion and were not corrected by Higher Powers ,in other words, they were allowed to stand for some future good or lesson, such a complete reset or grand mall type of ice age, some would taken off planet as there are legends and myths of occurring, often children. Not sure what all the criterian for choice in this would be.

The last part is because the off planet beings around this neck of the woods in the cosmos are not all higher minded altruistic people.

But the number 144 000 is a 9, and that is person at the end of their cycle or growth stage here in this level. A very kind, caring, person who really doesnt need bankers or jailers or harsh lessons and cares about everyone's well being and progression. In which case being taken off planet may relate to abductions.

a reply to: The angel of light

I normally hate religious threads but this is an excellent alternative theory on the rapture that I had never thought of. I don't believe in god but if the rapture happened and I was indeed left behind....you can be sure my faith will be restored and ill be doing everything I can to fight evil...know that part where the anti christ is mortally wounded in revelations...I always just assume thats me trying to kill the anti christ cause if the rapture happens and im left behind...im going for that bastard!

Cool though to think out of the box a bit. Reminds me of the tv series the Left Overs...its like a kind of rapture or something but many of them were bad people.

The rapture is made up. Nothing biblical about it. The Torah and the New Testament are in complete disagreement.

Live your life well. Beg whichever God you choose...what you make of your life is what you get.

cherry picking a prophecy out of two divergent texts doesnt make it real.


reply to: The angel of light

a reply to: The angel of light

There are 3 scenarios:


1) The Pre-tribulation Rapture - This is the most "popular". Those of the other scenarios think that a "great falling away" will happen when the many that follow this teaching are not "raptured" before the tribulation, are not ready, and succumb to hunger and the beast system because they refused to prepare for any other possibility.

example (revelation 4 - a stretch) and Revelation 3:10 (FOR the Church in Philadelphia)

2) The Mid-Tribulation / Pre-wrath - This second scenario in which the expectation is being removed before the last 3.5 years of "wrath". John Shorey has a ton of research in this along with the Chronological order of Revelation (for those that do not know, Revelation is not in chronological order.)

(example: 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 7:9)


3) The Final Gathering at the end of the tribulation, Christians will endure the entire tribulation and will be gathered when Jesus comes at the time of battle of Armageddon.

Matthew 24 :
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus


I will not argue for or against any but I believe Yeshua has told us to be ready for any possibility.

Proverbs 27:12
The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.

Proverbs 22:3
A prudent man foresees the evil, and hides himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.

Proverbs 14:16
The wise are cautious and avoid danger; fools plunge ahead with reckless confidence.

The government just dumped another 330 million into a fund to reimburse turkey and chicken growers for their losses because of the bird flu. The Raptor is not coming, it is dying.

I found this interesting: www.askelm.com...

Quote from above article:
It may come as a surprise but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 C.E. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned it before 1830 (though a sentence in Pseudo-Dionysius in about 500 C.E. could be so interpreted). Of course, those who feel the origin of the teaching is in the Bible would say that it ceased being taught for some unknown reason at the close of the apostolic age only to reappear in 1830. But if the doctrine were so clearly stated in Scripture, it seems incredible that no one should have referred to it before the 19th century.

The lateness of the doctrine does not necessarily mean the teaching is wrong (only the plain statements of the Bible can reveal that). It does show that thousands of eminent scholars over seventeen centuries (including the most astute “Christian Fathers” and those of the Reformation and post-Reformation periods) must be considered prophetic dunces for not having understood so fundamental a teaching. This lapse of seventeen centuries when no one elaborated on the doctrine must be viewed as an obstacle to accepting its reliability."


But you might be right about the bad guys leaving earth, maybe thats what those huge black triangle ships are for, Rapture to a new Heavenly Slave Quarters, prison or someones food freezer.

I looked and found the rapture in the Bible. Here it is if you want to see it.

Matthew 24
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.



Does this mean I qualify for the $10,000?

a reply to: misskat1

The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light,
Dear Readers,

This is a very interesting material that says a lot about the way the rapture become so popular in American religious arena:

“The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or “catching away” was an important part of Darby’s teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the “rapture” had made its way to the United States.

Nevertheless, this was just the way in which this Heresy reappeared in modern times, there is lot more in that site about how old is this false belief, so old that even can be traced back toward the 1st century, and apparently it was around in the middle of the first Christian communities, what makes me think that possibly was part of the influence of some fanatic groups in which Jewish religion became divided by that time.

The first century was a time of crisis for the Jewish Nation, it was a time in which many were also in wait for a messianic kingdom and many groups became sectarians, even looking for the way to organize them as communities of faith in the middle of the desert or in other very isolated regions, like the mountains or shores of the death sea.

The idea of the rapture is possible a transformation or mutation of the so old idea of exodus, the need to migrate to other place, that is so repeated in the bible in ancient times, like when Abraham left Sumerian in search for the Promised land, or when Moses leaded the Hebrews in their exit from Egypt toward Sinai, and also when Jesus and his parents left Palestine escaping from Herod toward Egypt.

Here the link from which I took this quote, that by the way belong to a church that supports the rapture.

beginningandend.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

You are mixing a doctrine of the church with an end times doctrine.

I am on a iPod so I can't easily address the errors. I will try tomorrow if I have time from my computer.

a reply to: ntech

Dear neth,

I don't think so, lets go by parts:

Your first quote of Gospel according to St Matthew does not show a Rapture that look for good people, the only verse that clearly tells something about it, not about the final judgment or coming of Christ, describes it as predators coming to eat corpses:

St Matthew 24, 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Now, gathering people in one specific place to wait for the arrival of Christ, to meet with him, is not the same than to rapture them on the airs and leave the earth, those are two very different scenarios.

Please don't forget that Jesus and his Apostles used to gather the people in hills or valleys of the Holy land to preach to them, in open spaces, like it was done before by St John Baptist in the shores of the Jordan river. The beatitudes sermon was given in that way to a multitude, that by the way went there by their own feet.

St Matthew 24, 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

.

The quotes you have brought from Revelation book also refers to the natural events that will occur at the end of the times, the cataclysmic disasters, there is no mention at all on those verses of any rapture, only of people that don't find place that is really safe under those events.

Revelation of St John, 6, 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Now, also in other of your Revelation quotes clearly it is described that the arrival of Christ is for all nations, people of all origins is in the great multitude waiting for him, that is clearly described in those verses, is not that Christ or his angels took away some few chosen ones and flew away with them leaving great masses of population abandoned here.

Revelation 7, 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Thanks for the Quotes, but again they are not showing a rapture of people from the Earth to be transferred to another place of the Universe, what they suggest is the coming of Christ to earth after all the tribulations have ended.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

So,

Your advocating that the Rapture is a physical migration? I must have read that wrong.

1 Thessalonians 4
15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

a reply to: The angel of light

???

Clearly in Heaven at the Throne of God. What are you talking about.

The Throne in Heaven

1After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. 4Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spiritsa of God. 6Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“ ‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’b

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,

to receive glory and honor and power,

for you created all things,

and by your will they were created

and have their being.”



The Great Multitude in White Robes

9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,

who sits on the throne,

and to the Lamb.”

11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen!

Praise and glory

and wisdom and thanks and honor

and power and strength

be to our God for ever and ever.

Amen!”

13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,

“they are before the throne of God

and serve him day and night in his temple;

and he who sits on the throne

will shelter them with his presence.

16‘Never again will they hunger;

never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’a

nor any scorching heat.

17For the Lamb at the center of the throne

will be their shepherd;

‘he will lead them to springs of living water.

‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

a reply to: infolurker

Dear infolurker,

Notice the condition clearly stated or prerequisite that precedes the encounter with God,

For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.

16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

The passage you are quoting states that is not that the Angels of God come and rapture the chosen ones, it is that here on earth people that have survived the tribulations, that have survived all the calamities and also the plagues and other important natural disasters or cataclysmic events are going to experience the coming of the Lord, but they are going to see before the coming of God to earth the resurrection of the dead ones.

This is describing the day of the resurrection, if the idea is to be raptured at once to heaven why to wait for the resurrection of the dead people? after all they are already in heaven isn't it? Do you remember the Parable of the Rich man and the poor Lazarus?

Now, moreover notice that it begins saying "the ones that are alive", not the ones that are going to escape or be removed from a world before it is destroyed, it does not say the ones that will survive!

Also it continue saying "WHO ARE LEFT until the coming of the Lord" there is a Key word here "LEFT" that is extremely clear , they are waiting here not in other place to meet God, they were not raptured to other world before the great cataclysmic events of the end of the world, they have suffered an affronted all the great tribulations with patience, hope, love and faith.

At the end everybody that is saved will meet with God, but not in other way around, a rapture operation for the chosen ones to leave the evildoers to annihilation.

Now, let me leave you a quote to give you material to meditate, because if the idea is that earth is going to perish completely and not to be renewed, or restored, or that we are going to live in an ultra dimension, but not that God will come to live among us, the following scripture would not have any sense.

Revelation 21

[ The New Heaven and the New Earth ] Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them; ...]

Do you notice the phrase: "coming down out of heaven from God"

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: infolurker

Well Dear infoluker,

What you are doing is referring to all the description that St John the Apostle gives of his vision of the Heaven , of the celestial court and the Throne of God, something that is pretty interesting, but definitively has nothing to do with the topic of the Rapture, it is absolutely off topic.

The figures that appear overthere are not the "raptured ones", they are not people of the end of times, but all the prophets of ancient times, the martyrs of the early times of the Church, the Angels, the Archangels and also the Cherubims plus other angelic beings, even the living creatures.

Now, with all respect you are also quoting even without respecting the guidelines that exist here in ATS to do such a thing, not mentioning the book title, or Chapter that you are reproducing and well your entire post is a quote, something that I also believe is not allowed here.

Here a very interesting link that describes the Rapture as a Radical misinterpretation of the Scriptures , and curiously this is coming from an Orthodox Church, so it is showing that the Rapture is not classified as Heresy just only by the Catholic Church, but by almost any serious religious Christian congregation that is founded in Apostolic tradition.

www.johnsanidopoulos.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: The angel of light

I normally hate religious threads

Then why do you cruise the Religion, Faith and Theology forum?

Your faith will be restored after?

To be honest, a whole lot of people just went away this very evening and a whole lot just came here this very morning. Do you need a rapture to give you faith? How about death that hangs over every one of us, daily?

Evil is in the world now. Fight it now.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Because I think most churches are a big lie that are trying to get your money...and the fanatical people rise up and start wars in the name of their god. So I cruise religious threads to keep tabs on the times...because I don't believe in this nonsense at all what would be the one thing to make me believe? The rapture would be a good a start.

And I did fight evil...only to see the lines arent quite so clear on who is evil and who isn't. Served in the Infantry for many years. So ya...the space ghost is a joke to me but I did appreciate the alternative view on the thread...and for the record ive read almost the entire bible. Id wager most bible humpers haven't.