To Those That Condemn Homosexuality I Ask, Where Are Your Tassels!?

Often homosexuality is described by Christians as a filthy, foul disease. A detestable sin in the eyes of the Lord. The Bible's stance is made clear with verses such as Leviticus 20:13, which states:

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

The act is so detestable to the Lord, that those caught in the act are to be put to death. But what other things does the Lord find detestable in the Bible?

In Leviticus, we also find these gems that anger God:

Eating fat or blood. (3:17)
Eating animals that don't both chew cud and have a divided hoof. (11:4-7)
Eating or touching the carcass of any seafood without fins or scales. (11:13-19)
Mixing fabrics in clothing. (19:19)
Trimming your beard or cutting your hair at the sides. (19:27)
Not standing in the presence of the elderly. (19:32)
Working on the Sabbath. (23:3)

Some of these things are reiterated in other books of the Bible as well.

Here's another amusing commandment from God:

You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself. Deuteronomy 22:12

I realize not all Christians are the same. Some argue that the Old Testament laws were done away with in the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus. This thread specifically addresses those that believe otherwise. The ones that believe the Old Testament laws are still to be followed. The ones that use verses such as Leviticus 20:13 to condemn homosexuals as sinners.

To you I ask, where in God's name are your tassels!?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Simple misunderstanding on Christian's part...

They seem to believe Jesus was talking about the 613 laws of Mitzvah when he said "not one jot or tittle will pass from the law till all be fulfilled"... of course he couldn't have been talking about those because he didn't hold to all of them himself...

What he was actually talking about was what James called "the royal law"... In which he states....

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

I get a little tired of hearing about Sodom and Gamorrah. This sin that led to the destruction of those cities was not homosexuality, it was their attitude to needy and strangers.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The NT does condemn homosexuality as well, but putting the bible aside, show me a pair of homosexuals who can naturally produce a child (without any unnatural genetic modification), and I will accept homosexuality as a natural state of being.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The NT does condemn homosexuality as well, but putting the bible aside, show me a pair of homosexuals who can naturally produce a child (without any unnatural genetic modification), and I will accept homosexuality as a natural state of being.

Not naturally producing offspring,but this is a good start or is this "unnatural"? Or should I post the Wikipedia page too?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I realize not all Christians are the same. Some argue that the Old Testament laws were done away with in the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus

You misunderstand the Christian position.

a reply to: Ironhawke

But the human soul is not designed to be animalistic. To call humans animals is to excuse all of our atrocities as a consequence of nature. We are not products of our environment, but products of choice despite or in spite of environment.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The NT does condemn homosexuality as well, but putting the bible aside, show me a pair of homosexuals who can naturally produce a child (without any unnatural genetic modification), and I will accept homosexuality as a natural state of being.

Because without reproduction, nothing is natural? This argument of yours is severely flawed.

How many times do people need to show the (literally) thousands of other species that exhibit homosexual behavior, and in some cases mate for life with a mate of the same gender?

Nevertheless, at what point does anything we do become "unnatural"? If any choice we make is psychologically bound, or any emotional expressions are driven from our neurological makeup, then isn't the biological properties of those traits not already considered naturally occurring? It's not as if we've selectively bread or genetically modified these individuals in a way that we've unnaturally chosen these traits for them.

The fact is, no matter what choices we make, or what feelings we have, they are are driven through a biological foundation. And biology is nothing but natural.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Ironhawke

But the human soul is not designed to be animalistic. To call humans animals is to excuse all of our atrocities as a consequence of nature. We are not products of our environment, but products of choice despite or in spite of environment.

You're denouncing animals as "lesser than humans" and "unequal" simply because the ones we've discovered don't have a bit more brain matter than Homo sapiens?

The only difference between us and any other animal on this planet is that very fact. We simply developed more complex brains than any other species. Yet, if we somehow didn't have that aspect, what else do we really have? No fur, we need food all the time, absolutely require social communities to survive as a species, we have no venom, no claws, no natural camouflage. If anything, we are vastly less superior than the majority of other life on this planet. We're are in every way inferior minus one single adaptation; our brains.

Take away that and we are one of the weakest, least adapted species I can think of.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I do find it strange that some people seem to rank "homosexuality" as some "greater sin" than others. It is but one in a long line of sins mentioned in the New Testament along with drunkenness, greed, adultery, theft, kidnappers, liars, and scoffers against God.

Regardless of your sins, there is always repentance and forgiveness for those who want it. You have the free will to choose your path.

I choose Yeshua HaMashia.

I believe everyone is free to do as they wish and live their lives as they please in peace in this world. I ask the same for myself who believes that following the will of Yeshua means forsaking these actions myself.

You may continue to do whatever you want. Don't try to make those of us who believe the words of the New Testament deny Christ by accepting these actions into our own lives or testifying that they are "righteous" as the examples below from the New Testament clearly state otherwise.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV /

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you.

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:18

Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 ESV

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality


1 Timothy 1:10-17
Yes, these laws are made to identify as sinners all who are immoral and impure: homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, and all others who do things that contradict the glorious Good News of our blessed God, whose messenger I am.

12 How thankful I am to Christ Jesus our Lord for choosing me as one of his messengers, and giving me the strength to be faithful to him, 13 even though I used to scoff at the name of Christ. I hunted down his people, harming them in every way I could. But God had mercy on me because I didn’t know what I was doing, for I didn’t know Christ at that time. 14 Oh, how kind our Lord was, for he showed me how to trust him and become full of the love of Christ Jesus.

15 How true it is, and how I long that everyone should know it, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—and I was the greatest of them all. 16 But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as an example to show everyone how patient he is with even the worst sinners, so that others will realize that they, too, can have everlasting life. 17 Glory and honor to God forever and ever. He is the King of the ages, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God, and full of wisdom. Amen.

Blessed are You, LORD our God, King of the universe,
Who gave to us the way of salvation
through the Messiah Yeshua, blessed be He. Amen.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me. - Yeshua HaMashia

May Yeshua HaMashia (Jesus Christ) bless you and give you peace, salvation, and eternal life.

What sins in this short life is worth exchanging eternal life with Elohim?

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

a reply to: Ghost147

Do animals actually "do it" with others of the same sex? Attempting to avoid being vulgar here but for example, does the male monkey stick the you know what you know where in another male monkey or is it more of just a going through the motions thing without the actual business happening kind of like a dog?

You seriously think christians follow what bible says? They don't.
They may say it's because of what bible says, but really it's just easier than to actually explain why.
Don't forget non-christians hate gays too. Explanations may vary. There is probably some kind of natural response behind it making it seem so wrong. I think it's partly because they are generally so annoying and abominable.

Personally I don't understand the child production argument really. That just makes no sense.
One shouldn't have sex with barren lady or with contraceptions?

a reply to: coldkidc

Yes, actual penetration does occur, and so does mating for life. One of the best examples is in giraffes. Bruce Bagemihl shows some great examples within his Book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity". They often internally climax, and courting is extremely frequent. In one study, up to 94% of observed mounting incidents took place between two males. The proportion of same sex activities varied between 30 and 75%, and at any given time one in twenty males were engaged in non-combative necking behavior with another male. (pp. 391-393). Oddly enough, female homosexual cases were not very likely within giraffes.

Interestingly enough, female koalas enjoy lesbian "sex sessions", rejecting male suitors and trying to mate with each other instead; sometimes up to five at a time.

There's a lot of homosexuality studied in Domestic Rams. Although mating is unusual, they act as a couple in every other way throughout their lives.

a reply to: Ghost147

Im not denouncing animals, I'm saying that humans have more responsibility than animals. We were created to protect the balance of nature and cultivate the land. The animal mind consists of instinct and emotion....both of which respond to stimuli. Humans have instinct, emotion and logic, which gives us the upper hand above environmental stimuli.

Humans aren't animals as we were created apart from animals.

Why is it so important that every free thinking individual accept homosexuality as normal?

People will always disagree.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Ghost147

Im not denouncing animals, I'm saying that humans have more responsibility than animals. We were created to protect the balance of nature and cultivate the land. The animal mind consists of instinct and emotion....both of which respond to stimuli. Humans have instinct, emotion and logic, which gives us the upper hand above environmental stimuli.

Uh, no. We have no obligation to maintain nature's order. There's this fantastic phenomena known as "Natural Selection" which is intrinsically involved in the existence of life that does a pretty nice job of keeping nature as it is. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Humanity is doing exactly the opposite of balancing nature. As we progress as a species, we tend to be massively more destructive to the environment around us. To say that we were made to somehow control nature around is is so ridiculously arrogant.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Humans aren't animals as we were created apart from animals.

The plethora of evidence proves this concept as false. We branched out from previous ancestors as all other life has done.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Why is it so important that every free thinking individual accept homosexuality as normal?

No one is saying that "everyone needs to accept this as fact!" However, when you continue to spout ridiculous nonsense, say things that completely misrepresent the truth, belittle others because of your belief system, and spread concepts which are undoubtedly false, that is when others will step in and show what the facts really are.

Your first contributing reply to the topic stated that Homosexuality was not natural. Why would we just standby when someone makes claims that are false?

People will always disagree.

a reply to: Ghost147

Yes, well clearly "Natural Selection" has failed at keeping the balance as well. I said we were created to oversee the animal kingdom I didnt say we were fulfilling our purpose.

Naturally, you and I disagree, but just because you misunderstand the truth doesn't make it false. Science only accounts for what we can see. What we dont see is much more important. Under the observational circumstances that you surround yourself with, homosexuality seems acceptable and humans are as animals. But try reading between the lines. Try seeing things from your Creator's perspective.

Like any sin, homosexuality is an addiction. The more one resists the temptation/craving, the less power the sin has over the mind.

You are only looking at it from a religious point of view. I just find it gross.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The intent of this thread isn't to try and make anyone "accept" homosexuality.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I realize not all Christians are the same. Some argue that the Old Testament laws were done away with in the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus. This thread specifically addresses those that believe otherwise. The ones that believe the Old Testament laws are still to be followed. The ones that use verses such as Leviticus 20:13 to condemn homosexuals as sinners.

As I said not all Christians are the same. For example, you say the NT also condemns homosexuality. The argument can also be made that it doesn't. It really comes down to who and how they interpret the Bible, and their take on their relationship with Christ.

I probably should have left the homosexuality bit out of the title. Oh well. Not a big deal. The point is still clear in the OP. Do those that believe the Old Testament laws (such as the ones mentioned in OP) are supposed to be obeyed, actually obey them? Or do they just cherry pick verses to justify their discomfort with homosexuality?

Sorry for the confusion though. Thanks for your reply.

a reply to: infolurker

Thanks for your reply. I am not trying to force anyone to deny their beliefs. Merely pointing out to those who I know believe the Old Testament laws are to be followed, and often quote some of them in defense of their stance on homosexuality, that they cherry pick and are hypocrites.

Hence the, "where are your tassels?".

You've shown some verses from the NT that talk about sexual immorality. Great. Do you believe the Old Testament is also to be followed? If so.. where are your tassels!?

a reply to: infolurker

This is all I have to say about it. God bless.


1 Corinthians 5:12

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges.