"Pay to Stay" Jail Cells and How Wealth Makes a "Good" Person

a reply to: ZacharyW

That can sometimes work too. However, for some things to change you first need to get people angry about things are before they're motivated enough to do anything about it.

I wouldn't say it's the best way. It is most likely better for them to be motivated by achieving the positive outcome rather than fighting the negative current situation. However, sometimes it takes both. Usually starting with getting angry at how things are and deciding to change them, then at some point switching over to working toward a positive outcome.

a reply to: SheopleNation

yea man you see the big difference between county and state/federal/private prisons. County jails are more like a pass through for those who were just being idiots on the weekend and those waiting for trial to go to prison. For the most part, most the dude are just playing nice so they can post bond and go home to their ladies.

Either way, I think I was just happy I did not have to spend or borrow $2000 that I would never see again. I knew everything would be fine once the judge found out this man was attempting to extort sex from a minor. The young lady who was a sister of my friend who was also arrested with us in the altercation told me the judge gave the perv a look that practically said "sure am glad you got your beating" and dismissed the case.

I got a haircut for the equivalent of .35 cents, and a healthy winning of snacks from Spades, taunk, and good ol texas hold em.

Im all grown now so I am hoping there is no reason to have my hands restrained again. Thats is probably the worst part of being arrested, not being able to move freely with your hands restrained. I can take the cells, the court, the processing. I just hate to have my hands restrained. I dont even like watches anymore.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Shouldn't the protesters in Baltimore be chanting:

No money!
No justice!

Our country is gravely ill.
This is but one more sign.
We've done a 180 degree turn since 9/10/2001

Actually the 180 degree turn started well before 9/10/2001. The turning started between 1913 (Fed) and 1933 (business plot). We were warned of the turning in 1961 (Eisenhower's warning). Americans should have woke up to the turning in 1963 (JFKs assassination). But since 1963 it was full speed ahead in the 180 degree turn.

9/11 was the icing on the cake. Do you remember the cake is a lie?

The worst part? Most people have been hoodwinked into thinking that we haven't done a 180 and things are normal.

I've said it before, and will said it again - the USA will be lucky to survive the next 10 years.

Upgraded jail cells? That's normal, business as usual.

a reply to: Grimpachi

That's because a dealership is always trying to make the largest profit off of every deal and will never give you a fair shake. Most dealerships use NADA which sets a general value for a vehicle. NADA has a maximum price that a dealership should pay for a vehicle and a suggested retail price. They will never give you the retail price which is the true value of your car. They often will sell cars above retail as well.

True trade would be a bit more fair since it is you who gets to set the price of your good in terms of another good. A good trade would be where both sides profit equally in terms of use. However perhaps this throws into question whether the idea of possessions is the root of all evil?

originally posted by: DYepes
a reply to: SheopleNation

hey man, if there were no bail I would be sitting in jail until trial for driving with a suspended license. That is not fair to me. I did not even commit a moving violation, just decided to randomly pull me over. I dont have money for a trial so I just plead for the 15 days, and they offered me weekends. And I was like "ohh hey this weekends thing is not so bad." I actually get 3 days credit for only two.

So instead you plead guilty to something the state never had to prove. Could they have done so? Maybe, but you did their job for them. If no one takes a plea, the court system gets over loaded and they become forced to focus on what matters. Your paying bail (lucky you had money... most in the US cannot come up with $2000), and then pleading guilty, to only being jailed 29% of the time is part of what has made the system what it is.

The aptly named prisoner's dilemma game at work.

a reply to: mOjOm

UN-FREAKIN'-BELIEVABLE!

What more is there to say..this is just freakishly bad, even for money mad America.

What wouldn't surprise me, is that some sick group of politicians, pretending to be democratic, have come up with this 'pay (if you can) to stay prison cell' scheme, with ulterior motives in mind.

Several motives in fact.

One being the obvious...if they should ever get their 'collars felt' for their corruption and dodgy dealings and thrown into prison, they can stay in comparative luxury and safety.

The second is not so obvious.

What is Americas main motivation force? (and it OBVIOUSLY is not democracy and equality and freedom)

Money is the main motivational force in the USA.

They might think citizens will mentally replace the now defunct carrot that was the 'American dream' aspiration, in exchange for the crap covered stick of the 'American nightmare'.

The American nightmare is being brought up before the 'factory farming' conveyor belt justice system' and thrown into jail...however, with the right amount of hard work, the right grades in school helping to get a good, well paying job, the right amount of business endeavour and acumen...you too can avoid the American Nightmare, and pay your way out of it.

IOW, this system, worryingly enough...can be summed up in one, quite familiar and chilling phrase:

ARBEIT MACHT FREI

...or for those that don't read German.. “Work will set you free.” This was the sign the Nazis put across the gates to the Auschwitz death camp and others.

In the case of the US..with this get out of 'proper jail' free (if you pay) scheme, this has been modified to "Work will get you money, and money will set you free"

What a wonderful world.

a reply to: WCmutant

You're right of course. America fell when we allowed the Federal Reserve to run the country for the robber barons. The 180 degree turn I spoke of was really regarding the American people. Before then I think we were different, far less tolerant of the authoritarian nonsense we've endured since and more cohesive. Between the fascist remake of government under Bush and the socialist fracturing of society and infrastructure under Obama we've had our legs cut out from under us.

a reply to: Aazadan

Trials cost a lot more money than regular court costs, I wold have lost anyways. I cant exactly prove my license was not suspended, because it was. Mistake on my part. Is it worth 15 days in jail?? Maybe not, but the regular court costs are $270 and a lot more for a trial which I would have lost.

It was better for me to just plea guilty for my heinous crime of unlicensed driving. The courts are not the only people that get overloaded if everything was on trial. People like me would be too. I repeat, it would have benefited me zero to take that incident to trial, and its only 15 days man, and on WEEKENDS! That is not a big deal.

what we need is a GoFundMe so all the people in prison get the same quality accomodations. just step up and pay for an entire prison full of inmates to have top of the line care. prison system gets more money, yeah, but the inmates will know people care about them.

call it something like: ADOPT-A-PRISON or ADOPT-A-PRISONER, cause lets face it, alot of people are in prison that actually need a doctor not a prison, and people are in there for things that are actually legal in other states.

a reply to: mOjOm

Would like to point out low income people can do this aswell. It is called work release.

a reply to: Crumbles

Work release is a totally different program all together. You also don't simply buy your way into a work release program for better lodging and more freedom. Work release is available to everyone if they abide by certain criteria. This program you just pay for and can't be accessed by those without money to pay for it.

This is the same as paying to go to a "country club" prison instead of a real prison only it's within each individual prison itself. The big difference here is that if you have two people with identical charges both would be qualified for work release and either or both can get work release while this program and the same two people only the one who has money has access to it.

The set up those gangsters had in the movie Goodfellas' was nice. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: DYepes
a reply to: Aazadan

Trials cost a lot more money than regular court costs, I wold have lost anyways. I cant exactly prove my license was not suspended, because it was. Mistake on my part. Is it worth 15 days in jail?? Maybe not, but the regular court costs are $270 and a lot more for a trial which I would have lost.

It was better for me to just plea guilty for my heinous crime of unlicensed driving. The courts are not the only people that get overloaded if everything was on trial. People like me would be too. I repeat, it would have benefited me zero to take that incident to trial, and its only 15 days man, and on WEEKENDS! That is not a big deal.

It costs very little to defend yourself in court, of course you need a bit of legal training to do that. The whole system is based around the justification you just stated and it only works as long as people think that way. It's a little easier for you on an individual level by doing so, but a lot worse for everyone collectively because everyone does so.

Believe it or not, prosecutors only get about a 50% conviction rate in court... do you think that only 60% of those charged are guilty? This runs the gamut of every possible offense. That means that even if you're guilty, you still have a coin flip chance of getting away with it.

Court is not about being innocent or guilty, the truth of the matter is if you're in court you are guilty of something, maybe what you were charged with or maybe something else related to it. We all commit multiple felonies every single day. Court is about what they can prove. You know what you know, but the prosecutor doesn't see things from your perspective. If you're going to go to jail, make them work for it.

If even 2 out of every 100 people did this, we would add an additional 30% case load to the courts and they can't handle that. It would mean that cases like yours would result in only a fine, no jail time, and be processed through civil rather than criminal court (you wouldn't have a criminal conviction now). That is a big difference.

We all commit multiple felonies every single day.

yea your going to have to speak for yourself on that one. I dont pirate movies which is the only way I presume you came to the conclusion we all commit felonies everyday. I dont even download music anymore what with the great free streaming programs they have out nowadays. No my days of risking felonies is over, so I cannot agree with that statement.

I dont know how many times you have been in court, but I can tell you with certainty it is pointless to go to trial when you know the law is stacked against your case considering the punishment from a jury can be worse than a pea deal. And for what the state considers a Criminal traffic violation "driving with a suspended license", it would have been a waste of my own time not just the courts to come to the same outcome.

You have my blessing in any case to fight your next felony act bud, shouldnt be too long since you claim to be doing them everyday.

originally posted by: DYepes

We all commit multiple felonies every single day.

yea your going to have to speak for yourself on that one. I dont pirate movies which is the only way I presume you came to the conclusion we all commit felonies everyday. I dont even download music anymore what with the great free streaming programs they have out nowadays. No my days of risking felonies is over, so I cannot agree with that statement.

There are many laws on the books. Part of the routine operations of a smart phone or laptop (seeking out and connecting to open wifi) qualifies as a felony. So many things have been criminalized that going through life without doing anything wrong still makes you a felon. I'm not referring to things like piracy, which I don't do either. Every day on my walk from home to school my laptop connects to 3 different wifi networks on my trip. That's 3 felony charges (unauthorized access to a network) in each direction... 6 felonies right there, 36 per week.

I dont know how many times you have been in court, but I can tell you with certainty it is pointless to go to trial when you know the law is stacked against your case considering the punishment from a jury can be worse than a pea deal. And for what the state considers a Criminal traffic violation "driving with a suspended license", it would have been a waste of my own time not just the courts to come to the same outcome.

Once, for driving with an expired registration. The punishment (which I may have been found guilty of) was a $1500 fine 3 months in jail, and it counted as a felony. My lawyer (family member doing me a favor, so it cost me nothing) got me a deal of a $200 fine and it being downgraded from criminal to civil if I instead plead no contest. Obviously that's the lesser punishment but knowing what I know now I wouldn't have done it. The cop didn't show up to court, and the ticket happened while my car was parked and the engine was off (the cop waited for me to get in then got me). There was plenty of material there for an actual defense that I could have used to have the whole thing thrown out, and without the cop even showing up there was pretty much no case.

I understand precisely where you're coming from because it happened to me too, and I did the exact same thing you did. Of course, that was 10 years ago when I was much less informed. Allowing a system to stack several major charges against you, and then taking the lesser evil because it's a "lower" average penalty is submitting to tyranny.

a reply to: Aazadan

well I dont carry personal tracking devices with me anymore (yes that includes a cellphone, ditched that at the new year). I mention it quite in the hopes people can remember the days that we did not need them, and frankly still do not. They are wants, not needs. I want to move on though to what you experienced.

I have seen the registration cases in the courts quite often. I have never heard of the fine being that high or it being a felony charge, at least not here in Florida. Even a DUI in FL is not a felony unless you hurt someone. I only had to pay court costs of $270 for the suspended license charge. When it comes to registration, even if it was expired at the time you were pulled over, in FL if you get it fixed before the court date the bigger charge is thrown out and reduced to something simple like "no valid" or something. Saves money and points or whatever.

Theses issues we had to deal with are too simple to throw a hissy fit about the system over though. I mean I almost got held in contempt by the judge for laughing at the absurdity of it all the very first time I was in there for no license. Like dude I am in court facing a CRIMINAL proceeding because I dont have a piece of plastic that says Drivers License on it. And I get to sit through the entire docket because of my last name and the fact I did not have an attorney (they go first) and got to see and hear about all the chances some of these people just crap on. How do you be on probation for two years, not make a single payment, not even report to the P.O. , and expect another chance on a violation??

it makes no sense. There are way too many apathetic stupid people blaming the courts for their troubles though instead of blaming themselves. yes I though it was dumb I had to go to jail for driving without a license. But I made sure I crossed all my T's and dotted all the i's so I dont have to explain month after month to the judge why I clearly have not even bothered to make an attempt at settling the demands and punishment levied upon me. Ho do some of these people even walk and breathe at the same time???

originally posted by: DYepes
a reply to: Aazadan

well I dont carry personal tracking devices with me anymore (yes that includes a cellphone, ditched that at the new year). I mention it quite in the hopes people can remember the days that we did not need them, and frankly still do not. They are wants, not needs. I want to move on though to what you experienced.

It depends on your perspective I suppose, but in my mind there's nothing wrong with having a few wants that make life easier, and that's coming from someone who is a minimalist.

I have seen the registration cases in the courts quite often. I have never heard of the fine being that high or it being a felony charge, at least not here in Florida. Even a DUI in FL is not a felony unless you hurt someone. I only had to pay court costs of $270 for the suspended license charge. When it comes to registration, even if it was expired at the time you were pulled over, in FL if you get it fixed before the court date the bigger charge is thrown out and reduced to something simple like "no valid" or something. Saves money and points or whatever.

This was in Ohio and several years ago, I want to say 10 but it could have been more or less. That was also part of my deal to downgrade the penalty, getting it fixed before the court date. The max penalty was quite high however.

How do you be on probation for two years, not make a single payment, not even report to the P.O. , and expect another chance on a violation??

I am not a lawyer but I have sat through many law classes (I liked to take them as electives). What it comes down to honestly is that people are dumb and ambivalent. They seriously just do not care, and many of these laws primarily exist as ways to get money from those demographics in society. Concepts like probation are largely just a "stupid tax", they are designed to extract as much money as possible. Not to reform, but to supplement budgets.

it makes no sense. There are way too many apathetic stupid people blaming the courts for their troubles though instead of blaming themselves. yes I though it was dumb I had to go to jail for driving without a license. But I made sure I crossed all my T's and dotted all the i's so I dont have to explain month after month to the judge why I clearly have not even bothered to make an attempt at settling the demands and punishment levied upon me. Ho do some of these people even walk and breathe at the same time???

That's just how people are. They like to blame others for their circumstances. If a person makes the right choice, they decided well and are an informed consumer. If they make the wrong choice then they were lied to and manipulated by others. Those goes pretty deep into a persons psyche, and it applies to people at all rungs of society. Remember this, every time a person breaks the law they have justified it to themselves, and they believe themselves to be in the right. The ego is a pretty dangerous thing. When I had expired tags I said I didn't have the money to replace them, when I walk with my laptop I say the computer is acting on it's own rather than me turning it off, when you drove without a license I'm sure you had some reason for doing so.

a reply to: Aazadan

yea I was trying to play the system so I would not have to get the SR-22 insurance for three years. I actually managed to go two and a half years driving without a license because I changed the owner of the car to my wife, whos license is fine. In fact the night I got pulled over, it was 2 am back in my town to meet the misses at the airport and scoop her up to return the rental car we used to drive across the country. Let me be clear, I do not condone breaking even what I perceive to be unfair traffic laws.

However, I drove the entire way to the rocky mountains from florida, and then back again ten days later with no incident anywhere along the way. 4000+ mile round trip no incident. 2 am back home, on the way to simply return home, I get pulled over in front of the stadium, for my tag light allegedly.

No valid license, I still have 3 children in the car, and I am making sure my hands are on the wheel because I can see his backup has his hands on his gun through the mirror watching my children. Im just like "hey man, I just need to go pickup the wife at the airport, she is dropping off the rental, I dont want her to take a taxi back "(sure would saved me hundreds of dollars in lost income and court fees though) .

Although these guys seemed a little bit amped up, they politely let me on my way after writing a ticket and warned me no guarantees another wont stop me.

It was right before my court date before I told my sweety what happened. Boy was she pissed.
So in order for me not to have my license revoked for five years , I had to go get that insurance so that I could get my license and have the charge amended to driving with no valid license. Still had to do the fifteen days on weekends. Thankfully I only needed that insurance for six more months, but the entire premium is due up front. Was a rather tricky endeavor to get 1100$ ASAP, but I managed with the help of my father.

Yes I did already rationalize the breaking of that law in my head, but I was not really going to blame anyone else for the consequences. All me.

a reply to: jaynkeel The world is no Joke! It's our corrupt societal cronyism that is the Joke!
We have allowed this to happen and most of us would be in the dark if it were not for the internet! All these things
are a way of dividing the people so that we can be controlled! wealth disparity, race, immigration, religion, feminism,
GLBT rights and all the other wedge issues dividing our society just a way to create division and hedge against unity!
The majority will never realize the implications of this division until it's to late to unite~