Freddie Gray had spinal surgery a week before the arrest ??

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: 8675309jenny

No but due to such a myriad of patients who were in hospital with her some were younger, some were older, and some were in their prime (29-36)...


Age is just a number anyways, our spines are our spines...
And when you have surgery to correct things that are a danger to the cord itself, no, not buying a week recovery at all.

Nor is my mum who was the first to call BS on the week between.



Que sera sera, we shall see.

Although your mum may have had a rough patch, quite often, especially in young males, people will feel so much better after a fusion that they quite often do more than they should have and have to be firmly reminded that they are not healed yet and must follow post-operative instructions to the letter lest they hurt themselves more.

It is indeed possible that this gentleman felt well enough to remove his collar and go about his "usual activities." Criminals are not usually the "rule following" type of person.

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: NavyDoc


I don't see anyone saying anything racist--or is simply criticizing a person of a certain demographic "racist?"

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
The fact that I didn't say who I thought said something racist, and you decided it was you seems an indicator that you already think you are .
In the wake of so much incredible police violence in America right now, there's still a thread full of people working hard to exonerate the police any way they can in a situation that Mr. Magoo could see stinks to the stratosphere.

I'm the OP and you can take a look through Posse Comitatus to see that police do not automatically get a warm spot in my heart. This thread is not to defend police, it's about determining if there was more to this story. Gray's injury is one that would take considerable force to a healthy spine/neck. If it was indeed another person who inflicted such injury, they should absolutely be held responsible!


You are the one looking racist though. What Navydoc said has nothing to do with feeling as if he was being accused.

I also didn't say that the OP was contributing to the racism. And you got defensive too? I really don't understand WTAF is going on here.

My observation was that there's a lot of language in this thread like thug, multiple offense criminal, abortion, inner cities, etc that most people outside of the USA take as code for racist thought and ideations. Quick, someone say 'urban' for bonus points.

Color shouldn't matter at all, a guy died without due process and people are ok with it. Terrifying.

I never thought you accused me of racism. My defense was to your implication that this thread is about defending police. If the police brutally murdered this guy, then break out the NWA tapes!

And you're attaching racism to words that aren't. Yea, it's all about context, but to me a thug is a thug. Thug has no color; I knew plenty of white ones 20yrs ago.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Again, where is the video? Did he receive the injuries from initial chase or at the station? Is there any video of him at the station conscious and mobile? If not, now would be a good time to show it. If so, well where's the video and what happened?


In a jail THERE IS ALWAYS VIDEO, AND YES IN/ON EVERY HOLDING CELL, thinking otherwise is stupid. Where is the video?

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

Not meant as a racist statement. Just wondering why if all black lives matter, they only seem to matter when it's a white cop involved. That's the only time I see violent protests.

It's even worse if you don't mean it.

But it is racist.

Talking about inner cities, abortions. Because white ladies never get abortions, right? They just have "oopsies" and get a day after pill.

Choosing to have an abortion, for whatever reason, is not the same as being executed by the police because you are a "multiple offense criminal". It's not the same as dying a week later from injuries sustained while in police custody, either.

If due process is not applied, then the law was not applied.

Why does this guy's color matter? I mean, if he's a criminal, put him in jail and give him a trial. White or black or red or yellow or blue. But he needs to LIVE to get to the trial, and if the cops cannot ensure that people in their custody can survive then the system needs an overhaul.

Um, I'm racist? You don't know me pal. You're making this into black vs white abortion issue, pointing out when white women opt for abortions. My original premise was if ALL black lives matter, as has been a repeated mantra I've been hearing since Ferguson, why aren't there violent protests when black babies are aborted. I was just using abortion as an example. Another example is black on black crime, as is prevalent in Chicago. I never see violent protests there.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I like how you start out by calling me "genius", and then I get to the bottom and read "if you keep things respectful so will I".

Well, that's a stacked deck and I only have a nickel left after trying to go up against the ATS powerhouses.

It worked, I'll stop posting until I can figure out doublespeak better.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: 8675309jenny

No but due to such a myriad of patients who were in hospital with her some were younger, some were older, and some were in their prime (29-36)...


Age is just a number anyways, our spines are our spines...
And when you have surgery to correct things that are a danger to the cord itself, no, not buying a week recovery at all.

Nor is my mum who was the first to call BS on the week between.



Que sera sera, we shall see.

Although your mum may have had a rough patch, quite often, especially in young males, people will feel so much better after a fusion that they quite often do more than they should have and have to be firmly reminded that they are not healed yet and must follow post-operative instructions to the letter lest they hurt themselves more.

It is indeed possible that this gentleman felt well enough to remove his collar and go about his "usual activities." Criminals are not usually the "rule following" type of person.

I have heard plenty of stories from my dad about this very thing. He even did it himself when he had his first fusion surgery. He has had two since on different areas of his spine and decided to listen to his own advice on those...healed up nicely, but still lives with some pain from the original on his neck that never quite healed correctly after he re-injured it and had to have another surgery.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

Not meant as a racist statement. Just wondering why if all black lives matter, they only seem to matter when it's a white cop involved. That's the only time I see violent protests.

It's even worse if you don't mean it.

But it is racist.

Talking about inner cities, abortions. Because white ladies never get abortions, right? They just have "oopsies" and get a day after pill.

Choosing to have an abortion, for whatever reason, is not the same as being executed by the police because you are a "multiple offense criminal". It's not the same as dying a week later from injuries sustained while in police custody, either.

If due process is not applied, then the law was not applied.

Why does this guy's color matter? I mean, if he's a criminal, put him in jail and give him a trial. White or black or red or yellow or blue. But he needs to LIVE to get to the trial, and if the cops cannot ensure that people in their custody can survive then the system needs an overhaul.

Um, I'm racist? You don't know me pal. You're making this into black vs white abortion issue, pointing out when white women opt for abortions. My original premise was if ALL black lives matter, as has been a repeated mantra I've been hearing since Ferguson, why aren't there violent protests when black babies are aborted. I was just using abortion as an example. Another example is black on black crime, as is prevalent in Chicago. I never see violent protests there.

I'm reading your words, and telling you how they look to me. If I am wrong, help me out. This hasn't convinced me otherwise.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: NavyDoc


I don't see anyone saying anything racist--or is simply criticizing a person of a certain demographic "racist?"

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
The fact that I didn't say who I thought said something racist, and you decided it was you seems an indicator that you already think you are .
In the wake of so much incredible police violence in America right now, there's still a thread full of people working hard to exonerate the police any way they can in a situation that Mr. Magoo could see stinks to the stratosphere.

I'm the OP and you can take a look through Posse Comitatus to see that police do not automatically get a warm spot in my heart. This thread is not to defend police, it's about determining if there was more to this story. Gray's injury is one that would take considerable force to a healthy spine/neck. If it was indeed another person who inflicted such injury, they should absolutely be held responsible!


You are the one looking racist though. What Navydoc said has nothing to do with feeling as if he was being accused.

I also didn't say that the OP was contributing to the racism. And you got defensive too? I really don't understand WTAF is going on here.

My observation was that there's a lot of language in this thread like thug, multiple offense criminal, abortion, inner cities, etc that most people outside of the USA take as code for racist thought and ideations. Quick, someone say 'urban' for bonus points.

Color shouldn't matter at all, a guy died without due process and people are ok with it. Terrifying.

I never thought you accused me of racism. My defense was to your implication that this thread is about defending police. If the police brutally murdered this guy, then break out the NWA tapes!

And you're attaching racism to words that aren't. Yea, it's all about context, but to me a thug is a thug. Thug has no color; I knew plenty of white ones 20yrs ago.

I also don't think the thread OP was defending anything, I was only addressing those doing so within the thread.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

but have you seen the vid that sent freddy into a coma? I don't mean nightmare on elm street either, but until we see it we HAVE to assume the worst. The truth shall set you free, and tapes don't lie, video please? He was alive and walking when shoved in the back of the wagon. When did he get that spinal severance? or maybe it "just happened"

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: 8675309jenny

To be honest, i don't see what relevence it has either way. If he died because of Police actions whilst in custody, those responsible have in effect murdered him and should be charged as such.

Previous injuries really don't come into it at all, it is simply a matter of black or white here (in terms of the situation, not race!).

How can you not see the relevance if the guy had an undisclosed condition that contributed to his further injury.

It's like having a Nickel allergy and the handcuffs cause a reaction. Or like having a heart attack while running from the police. That part isn't their fault.

The part they ARE responsible for is witholding/refusing proper treatment.

We don't know enough yet to say if ANYTHING the police did contributed to his death. He may have died of complications as a result of prior injury, or perhaps it was directly something the police did.

For reference have a look at this case: Maria de Villota

.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: NavyDoc


I don't see anyone saying anything racist--or is simply criticizing a person of a certain demographic "racist?"

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega
The fact that I didn't say who I thought said something racist, and you decided it was you seems an indicator that you already think you are .
In the wake of so much incredible police violence in America right now, there's still a thread full of people working hard to exonerate the police any way they can in a situation that Mr. Magoo could see stinks to the stratosphere.

I'm the OP and you can take a look through Posse Comitatus to see that police do not automatically get a warm spot in my heart. This thread is not to defend police, it's about determining if there was more to this story. Gray's injury is one that would take considerable force to a healthy spine/neck. If it was indeed another person who inflicted such injury, they should absolutely be held responsible!


You are the one looking racist though. What Navydoc said has nothing to do with feeling as if he was being accused.

I also didn't say that the OP was contributing to the racism. And you got defensive too? I really don't understand WTAF is going on here.

My observation was that there's a lot of language in this thread like thug, multiple offense criminal, abortion, inner cities, etc that most people outside of the USA take as code for racist thought and ideations. Quick, someone say 'urban' for bonus points.

Color shouldn't matter at all, a guy died without due process and people are ok with it. Terrifying.

Huh? So thug, and multiple offence criminal are racist terms now? Should I have said african american, judicially challenged individual to be PC or something? That's ridiculous. He was a thug and he was a multiple offence criminal.

Just ask yourself why it always seems why it's the black multiple offense criminal that ends up dead before a trial and the white ones get reduced sentences after a trial.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

they could simply release all video they have of the event?

a reply to: Neutrality

That is very truth, the police initial report said that he walked to the van, I imagine that the videos are for now off limits to the press until Friday when the final report of the investigation goes to the attorney general or investigators I believe, Friday news would not be that the police officers will be prosecuted but that the reports will be released.

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

Not meant as a racist statement. Just wondering why if all black lives matter, they only seem to matter when it's a white cop involved. That's the only time I see violent protests.

It's even worse if you don't mean it.

But it is racist.

Talking about inner cities, abortions. Because white ladies never get abortions, right? They just have "oopsies" and get a day after pill.

Choosing to have an abortion, for whatever reason, is not the same as being executed by the police because you are a "multiple offense criminal". It's not the same as dying a week later from injuries sustained while in police custody, either.

If due process is not applied, then the law was not applied.

Why does this guy's color matter? I mean, if he's a criminal, put him in jail and give him a trial. White or black or red or yellow or blue. But he needs to LIVE to get to the trial, and if the cops cannot ensure that people in their custody can survive then the system needs an overhaul.

Um, I'm racist? You don't know me pal. You're making this into black vs white abortion issue, pointing out when white women opt for abortions. My original premise was if ALL black lives matter, as has been a repeated mantra I've been hearing since Ferguson, why aren't there violent protests when black babies are aborted. I was just using abortion as an example. Another example is black on black crime, as is prevalent in Chicago. I never see violent protests there.

I'm reading your words, and telling you how they look to me. If I am wrong, help me out. This hasn't convinced me otherwise.

I don't know how to help you out. You can ask my son's black girlfriend how racist I am, I guess. But I'm in good company as I see how you've taken some other members posts on here out of context and also labeled them as racists.

originally posted by: Neutrality
a reply to: Vasa Croe

but have you seen the vid that sent freddy into a coma? I don't mean nightmare on elm street either, but until we see it we HAVE to assume the worst. The truth shall set you free, and tapes don't lie, video please? He was alive and walking when shoved in the back of the wagon. When did he get that spinal severance? or maybe it "just happened"

Who knows? If (and I say if) he had a fusion a few weeks ago, he could have destabilized it while running around and, once the fusion was made unstable, something as simple as a sneeze could have caused the vertebrae to shift, severing the spine. With an unstable C-spine, a nod can cause paralysis.

originally posted by: [post=19290643]Vasa Croe

Kind of a far cry from dealing drugs, but hey...maybe someday this will happen. Likely I won't run from police when they find me though....the "crimes" you mentioned are not exactly felonies nor considered dangerous. So far the good ole USA is treating this law abiding citizen just fine....shocking right?

I guess you would label these "white people crimes" since you are so hellbent on "thug" and whatever else being racist?

Ohg, I am sure in your mind, that white people don't sell drugs.

originally posted by: Neutrality
a reply to: Vasa Croe

but have you seen the vid that sent freddy into a coma? I don't mean nightmare on elm street either, but until we see it we HAVE to assume the worst. The truth shall set you free, and tapes don't lie, video please? He was alive and walking when shoved in the back of the wagon. When did he get that spinal severance? or maybe it "just happened"

Why assume the worst? If he had a spinal injury that was recently operated on and it was aggravated by his arrest, while in the van it is more probable that it swelled and the injury began to present itself in another way. His surgery sounds like it was for a fracture in his spine versus a break. If there is a fracture at all, there is swelling. If the fracture was aggravated during his arrest, because he had to be taken down forcefully since he was evading, then it is likely this caused swelling to the original site or more. Swelling takes a bit of time and he was riding in the back of a van, likely with metal seats. Any bump in the road would aggravate that injury even more.

I see it as an accident that could have been avoided had he not gone back to criminal activity a week after surgery.

To me, with a spinal surgeon in the family and knowing a bit about it, this is the most logical presumption at this time. Though I am sure plenty will disagree.

originally posted by: pilgrimOmega

originally posted by: [post=19290643]Vasa Croe

Kind of a far cry from dealing drugs, but hey...maybe someday this will happen. Likely I won't run from police when they find me though....the "crimes" you mentioned are not exactly felonies nor considered dangerous. So far the good ole USA is treating this law abiding citizen just fine....shocking right?

I guess you would label these "white people crimes" since you are so hellbent on "thug" and whatever else being racist?

Ohg, I am sure in your mind, that white people don't sell drugs.

Sure they do, but you only gave me those three options, which were all very white of you.

You call people racist for saying thug and multiple offence criminal, which Gray was both, then tell me that I am going to be arrested for things that I have never even gotten tickets for......way to project.

Typical argument with a lot of folks here.....try to bring a non-criminal to the level of a known criminal with ridiculous comparisons.

Oh boy....

This has happened before. In 2005 another man, Dondi Johnson, suffered a similar fate after being arrested and loaded into the police van. His spine was broken and he, too, died afterward.

www.thedailybeast.com...#

Dondi Johnson was not strapped in, either, and was refused help when he asked.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I know exactly what you mean by a very destabilized spine, but is hard for somebody that doesn't have knowledge of medical issues and problems to understand the ifs and but's.

I am now undergoing physical therapy after having surgery 4 weeks ago for shoulder, I have seen plenty of spine injuries during my physical therapy sections, some people look fine and I would not guess they just have spine surgery.

You get to learn a lot during conversations while doing physical therapy.