Zahi Hawass Storms out of Debate with Graham Hancock

originally posted by: engineercutout
a reply to: Peeple

Look, I might have done so snidely, but I was actually serious when I asked you if you had links to other information refuting Hancock's arguments. There's really no need to continue to resort to name calling. Besides, calling me a tool and telling me that I can't think for myself really isn't going to convince me of anything except that you can be a real jerk sometimes. I am open to new information, and/or being wrong, if that is the case. I'm not scared!!!(gulp) Feel free to PM me if they won't let you post it in this thread...

So, why do mainstream archaeologists reject his hypothesis of an Ice Age civilisation? Well people like to call themselves the new archeologists. Basically a way they can claim academic credibility Without actually having to to the work. But that aside what they do is ignore or alter facts to basically deceive the public. For example they claim we can't date the pyramids that's not true the great pyramid and others have been carbon dated.they took organic materials incorporated into mortars and plasters used within the structures. As such we can test the straw and whatever else we fInd. On the 1980s the test showed the Great Pyramid ranged from 2853 to 3809 BC notice this is 400 years older than current timelines. But still falls withing the margin of error.

Than we have the the records In the tombs of the people who built it. They tell us there jobs and how they helped build the pyramid remember this was a big deal to them this was there shot at the afterlife. They thought they were helping there king beco mm e a god. As a god he could get them into the afterlife as well. This is kind of like saints in Christianity you ask for their help so to speak. So they made sure when they died it was known they helped the king and went onto a lot of detail. Than of course there is the workman's graffiti lots of argument over that. People claiming it was faked though oddly Hancock later admits its real. Kind of changes his story here a bit he than states Khufu did indeed build the pyramid but they were commemorating an earlier date on history. This is the latest tactic of are new age archeilogusts.

Now they say the Giza plateau was a big memorial park to let us know what happened at an earlier age in history. This could have been accomplished by burying jars no need to build an entire complex. Now the other point I see so often is why no inscriptions. well it was not the way they saw the pyramid it was a tool to help him reach the heavens nothing more. What people don't know is he had priests these priests worshipped him even after death. This was the purpose of the mortuary temple it was the place where the priests would protect his worldly goods. And continue to receive profits from lands owned by the pro ah before his death on other words they had an income. Well all the stuff you expected to be in the Pyramid wad actually in the temple. Had the walls depicting his life had his stuff tucked away waiting for his return. Later mostly do to lack of funds temples stopped being built and all his stuff just got buried with the pharoah.

Now the other point I love is when they say there wasn't a body egypt was ruled by pharoah for 3000 yrs yet we found only a handful still in their sarcophagus why well they kept gold and jewels on thier body. Finding a mummy in a tomb is very unlikely. I can keep going but I'm sure I'm boring you guys I get sidetracked and get much to detailed at times.

a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

No you use morter joints like they did. Core sample isn't going to tell you anything can't date stone. and there isn't there is no other monument with the same base measurements that's just false. This was started on Internet alien sites it's simply not true. Mayan temples are not pyramids they were built diffrent they don't share anything other than general shape and even that is pushing it.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

No you use morter joints like they did. Core sample isn't going to tell you anything can't date stone. and there isn't there is no other monument with the same base measurements that's just false. This was started on Internet alien sites it's simply not true. Mayan temples are not pyramids they were built diffrent they don't share anything other than general shape and even that is pushing it.

Core samples would have, extraneous matter left in them when it was built and as for internet myth, about the relative dimensions of the American pyramid and the GP. have a look at this. www.world-mysteries.com... As an aside the place seems to generate a fair bit of electrical energy where the apex should be.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

No you use morter joints like they did. Core sample isn't going to tell you anything can't date stone. and there isn't there is no other monument with the same base measurements that's just false. This was started on Internet alien sites it's simply not true. Mayan temples are not pyramids they were built diffrent they don't share anything other than general shape and even that is pushing it.

Core samples would have, extraneous matter left in them when it was built and as for internet myth, about the relative dimensions of the American pyramid and the GP. have a look at this. www.world-mysteries.com... As an aside the place seems to generate a fair bit of electrical energy where the apex should be.

You believe they are the same do you well pyramid of the suns Length 720 feet Width 760 feet notice it's not a true pyramid mind you or length and width would be the same.

Now the great pyramid Length of Sides:
West: 755.76 feet
North: 755.41 feet
East: 755.87 feet
South: 756.08 feet
I included all sides here to show you how close the egyptians got a variance of about 10 in. The mass of the great pyramid dwarfs the pyramid of the sun.Its height is 455.4 ft pyramid of the sun 216 ft. In no way do any measurements match other than superimposed pictures by websites that lie to you. Also the way mayans built the pyramid entirely diffrent. They built walls and back filled it with rubble. In fact archeologist loved digging through this rubble because it included alot of trash from the mayans.Also the time span for building much longer there was a temple there they decided to expand it built walls poured in rubble.moved up did the same. Practical too it wa s a temple and needed to stay open.


And saved the best for last the sea horse. Maybe it was a key chain. To my knowledge no seahorse has been found in the pyramid. I'm sure in the northern part of egypt yeah sure go back far enough would have been a salt water lake. So please show me this seahorse what museum is it in??

a reply to: engineercutout

Hello Engineercutout ,

Dr Hawass on radiocarbon dating:

Hawass remains categorical in his rejection of the [C14 dating] technique: "Not even in five thousand years could carbon dating help archaeology... carbon dating is useless. This science will never develop. In archaeology, we consider carbon dating results imaginary." - Dr Zahi Hawass (Egpyt Independent, 8th July, 2010) From here.

Since you appear to be looking for information, you may also find this paper of mine of some interest: 10 Facts that Contradict the Pyramid Tomb Theory (PTT)

Regards,

SC

Is it just me or did that scene with the girl pissing in the pyramid sound and feel like some totally scripted television drama?

If Hancock is right, I think Egypt's tourism would actually improve though. I would definitely be more interested in visiting sites built by a mysterious unknown civilization ages ago

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

No you use morter joints like they did. Core sample isn't going to tell you anything can't date stone. and there isn't there is no other monument with the same base measurements that's just false. This was started on Internet alien sites it's simply not true. Mayan temples are not pyramids they were built diffrent they don't share anything other than general shape and even that is pushing it.

Core samples would have, extraneous matter left in them when it was built and as for internet myth, about the relative dimensions of the American pyramid and the GP. have a look at this. www.world-mysteries.com... As an aside the place seems to generate a fair bit of electrical energy where the apex should be.

You believe they are the same do you well pyramid of the suns Length 720 feet Width 760 feet notice it's not a true pyramid mind you or length and width would be the same.

Now the great pyramid Length of Sides:
West: 755.76 feet
North: 755.41 feet
East: 755.87 feet
South: 756.08 feet
I included all sides here to show you how close the egyptians got a variance of about 10 in. The mass of the great pyramid dwarfs the pyramid of the sun.Its height is 455.4 ft pyramid of the sun 216 ft. In no way do any measurements match other than superimposed pictures by websites that lie to you. Also the way mayans built the pyramid entirely diffrent. They built walls and back filled it with rubble. In fact archeologist loved digging through this rubble because it included alot of trash from the mayans.Also the time span for building much longer there was a temple there they decided to expand it built walls poured in rubble.moved up did the same. Practical too it wa s a temple and needed to stay open.


And saved the best for last the sea horse. Maybe it was a key chain. To my knowledge no seahorse has been found in the pyramid. I'm sure in the northern part of egypt yeah sure go back far enough would have been a salt water lake. So please show me this seahorse what museum is it in??

I take it you have personally measured them both . I suppose then we are both quoting internet rumours. The seahorse was found at the base of the pyramid . The salt layer inside, was analysed to be sea salt. Plus their is a tidal mark on the exterior of the structure. Its suggestive of inundation.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: dragonridr

The trouble is any dating of the GP, would have to be a core sample, if the place had a makeover then no wonder the details fit nicely. Plus what was a fossilised sea horse doing on the site, If it says the site had a makeover , by the man who did the makeover, and rededicated to Isis, how come no one wants to believe it. The guys tomb is actually someplace else.

Isn't it stretching the imagination a bit, to have two monuments on two different continents with the same base measurements and to claim their was no contact . Isn't it also a bit of a coincidence that the Pyramid structure was a world wide phenomenon, both with tunnels under them. to claim their was no contact is stretching things a bit much. Especially when their latitude lines are in the Ice free zones of the last ice age.

No you use morter joints like they did. Core sample isn't going to tell you anything can't date stone. and there isn't there is no other monument with the same base measurements that's just false. This was started on Internet alien sites it's simply not true. Mayan temples are not pyramids they were built diffrent they don't share anything other than general shape and even that is pushing it.

Core samples would have, extraneous matter left in them when it was built and as for internet myth, about the relative dimensions of the American pyramid and the GP. have a look at this. www.world-mysteries.com... As an aside the place seems to generate a fair bit of electrical energy where the apex should be.

You believe they are the same do you well pyramid of the suns Length 720 feet Width 760 feet notice it's not a true pyramid mind you or length and width would be the same.

Now the great pyramid Length of Sides:
West: 755.76 feet
North: 755.41 feet
East: 755.87 feet
South: 756.08 feet
I included all sides here to show you how close the egyptians got a variance of about 10 in. The mass of the great pyramid dwarfs the pyramid of the sun.Its height is 455.4 ft pyramid of the sun 216 ft. In no way do any measurements match other than superimposed pictures by websites that lie to you. Also the way mayans built the pyramid entirely diffrent. They built walls and back filled it with rubble. In fact archeologist loved digging through this rubble because it included alot of trash from the mayans.Also the time span for building much longer there was a temple there they decided to expand it built walls poured in rubble.moved up did the same. Practical too it wa s a temple and needed to stay open.


And saved the best for last the sea horse. Maybe it was a key chain. To my knowledge no seahorse has been found in the pyramid. I'm sure in the northern part of egypt yeah sure go back far enough would have been a salt water lake. So please show me this seahorse what museum is it in??

I take it you have personally measured them both . I suppose then we are both quoting internet rumours. The seahorse was found at the base of the pyramid . The salt layer inside, was analysed to be sea salt. Plus their is a tidal mark on the exterior of the structure. Its suggestive of inundation.

Ok show me the seahorse where is it? As for the salt layer the pyramid is made out of sandstone. Any humidity what so over causes the salt inside to seep to the surface. This is why periodically egypt has to shut down tombs because of the humidity created by tourists the walls become coated in salt and has to be removed. You bought into an internet lie many people try to make money off getting you to believe aliens built the pyramids, Or there is a secret underground chamber of knowledge for the new age fanatics. By the way are you trying to claim that the measurements for the pyramids are wrong?? How far will you go to have to ignore reality to still believe an unfounded belief??

See archeology is about discovering facts not speculating on it. Archeologists are crime scene detectives nothing more they may need to determine cause of death use forensics to determine ages of pottery etc. This is why you cant just use science and say this is the way it was you have to put the pieces together to get a picture. If you believe something and there are no pieces of the puzzle to use your hypothesis is wrong. Like the great pyramid we know the quarries the stone came from excavated the quarries found stuff left in the quarries. We have written records of the pyramid being built for Khufu. Main reason Hancock now admits the pyramid was built in 2500 bc and why he altered his story. We have even records showing the costs of feeding and records of the builders themselves bragging on their contribution to the great pyramid. 30 years ago yeah there was none of that now denial of it just shows you have an alternate purpose usually money.

a reply to: dragonridr

Ok its easily cleared up. in one of the airshafts theirs some wood, but Hawass wont retrieve it and do a carbon date on it . Sounds to me like he knows what the truth is. Because this wood, would have been there at the time the inner passages were sealed . He may not be able to handle the truth. hallofthegods.org...

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Thanks for the link, Scott. The thread has been an interesting one so far.

a reply to: engineercutout

Yeah sure, cause the guy is a totally credible source... How is that information?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: engineercutout

Yeah sure, cause the guy is a totally credible source... How is that information?

I'm trying real hard to leave his supposed fact alone I Already addressed some of his facts in an earlier post. I honestly believe Scott believes what's he's saying and devoted alot of his time to it. Problem is he hasn't taken a step back. See when you think you found something you start making the facts fit your beliefs. Like the old saying goes when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

a reply to: Peeple

Interesting to me because of the melodrama that has ensued because some people liked Graham Hancock's books. I find it amusing all of the beliefs that have been attributed to me because I read a book by this guy.

Which brings me to this question that I've been itching to ask you: What is it, exactly, that you think that I believe?

I've stated my belief that history is enigmatic, that Hancocks's book did a good job of highlighting the enigmatic nature of this planet's history, and that Hancock wrote about some pyramidal stellar alignments.

What else have you edited into this notion of what you think I believe? Do I have like a special robe that I wear in your mind, maybe with an H or an SC stitched on the front of it, and a special altar in my den with miniature pyramids all lined up in constellation patterns and an ancient alien doll in the middle that I pray to at night, or something like that? Do tell, I would really like to know.

A little over the top, I know, I just couldn't help it

Seriously though, I did enjoy the book, it was a good read, and I would still recommend it. Guys like Hancock and Creighton are doing a good job in asking questions that might come to any scholar's mind, even if they do get it wrong sometimes (not saying that they have). Keep it up, guys! Same to you Zah I mean dragonridr, some interesting criticism there, keep it coming. Somebody's got to keep these guys on their toes!

a reply to: engineercutout

Sorry i don't have given it any thought who or what you might be. Around 40-50, i guess freshly divorced and with two kids, ordinary dude?
I know you think Hancock has something to say and you actually believe the star alignment is more than "making the evidence fit the theory". Also you think it is informatin when Scott Creighton sources Scott Creighton to support what Scott Creighton says, because he is Scott Creighton. Or in other words, you seem to be a bit naive.

a reply to: Peeple

I know I know, I'm sure those are like all of his sources, too. You get to the bibliography and all of the sources are Creighton pieces, right? Maybe a couple of Hancock and Sitchin references thrown in for good measure...

Seriously though, if I had written a paper in support of a few of the simple opinions I had stated and had that paper posted online, I would probably just post a link to it instead of rewriting it in a discussion forum. Everybody has their own way of doing things though, I suppose.

originally posted by: engineercutout
a reply to: Peeple

I know I know, I'm sure those are like all of his sources, too. You get to the bibliography and all of the sources are Creighton pieces, right? Maybe a couple of Hancock and Sitchin references thrown in for good measure...

Seriously though, if I had written a paper in support of a few of the simple opinions I had stated and had that paper posted online, I would probably just post a link to it instead of rewriting it in a discussion forum. Everybody has their own way of doing things though, I suppose.

Theres one big problem look at the overall picture. We have individuals that claim celestial alignment. Even though there was never anything to show us the pyramids were built to do this. Actually seems to be an alignment to Heliopolis. Through every pyramid in egypt not just giza. But thats for another time. So we have an assumption of celestial alignment Than we have people that use this assumption to prove their idea correct. The logic is circular in nature. Well they created the pyramid to align with the stars look we can get it to lign up in 10500 bce. Well how do you know this is the build date?? Well the site shows celestial alignment. It also makes arguing a point very difficult when you have someone who continues circular arguments.

Graham Hancock and others need you to believe archeology is hiding things from you. This way they continue to sell their books and videos. Archeology doesnt hide anything archeologists want to tear down old ideas and want to discover we were wrong. Great example is gobekli tepe. Its been assumed civilizations arise in a certain manner. It was believed that hunter gatherers started farming. Not having to hunt for food they had time to build and form religions. Than religions leads to building temples. Temples lead to governments etc. What we learned now its all wrong. It started with religion religion created temples the temples caused people to gather share ideas. They started living in larger groups this moved from collecting wild graines to farming. 100s of years of archeology overturned with 1 find. The difference is you need evidence you cant make an assumption and try to make the facts fit be like a crime scene investigator walking in and saying this man was stabbed to death. When we can see they were shot. When confronted are crime scene investigator says it just looks like a bullet wound it was actually an ice pick. Than you point out the gunpowder marks. He than says they must have placed it there after his death. So we ask well why would they do that? he says to mislead us so we wouldnt know he was stabbed.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: engineercutout
a reply to: Peeple

I know I know, I'm sure those are like all of his sources, too. You get to the bibliography and all of the sources are Creighton pieces, right? Maybe a couple of Hancock and Sitchin references thrown in for good measure...

Seriously though, if I had written a paper in support of a few of the simple opinions I had stated and had that paper posted online, I would probably just post a link to it instead of rewriting it in a discussion forum. Everybody has their own way of doing things though, I suppose.

... the pyramids ... Actually seems to be an alignment to Heliopolis. Through every pyramid in egypt not just giza. But thats for another time. ..

SC: The claimed orthodox Heliopolis alignment:



Hardly convincing.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

Dr Hawass on radiocarbon dating:

Interesting that you seem to accept what Hawass says when he apparently supports you. But actually, he doesn't. Quote mining at it's finest. Why did you omit this statement from Hawass? In your own source.

“Carbon-14 dating has a margin of error of 100 years. In order to date Egyptian dynasties, we need to have specific dates; you cannot use carbon dating," Hawass explained to Al-Masry Al-Youm. "This technique shouldn’t be used at all in making changes to the chronology of the ancient Egypt, not even as a helpful addition.”

Yes, for intergenerational dating carbon 14 cannot be relied upon. If you want to know if organic material is about 4,000 or 4,200 years old 14C dating works well. If you want to know if one set of bones is the parent of another set of bones or the child, not so much. If you want to know if the artifact is 3,000 years old or 3,050 years old you're pretty much out of luck but you can know that it is around 3,000 years old, with that 100 year margin of error Hawass cited.

www.egyptindependent.com...