Zahi Hawass Storms out of Debate with Graham Hancock

Getting crazy in here we have people that think aliens built the pyramids others want to date it be fore there was any signs of civilization around 6000 BC the first pottery starts showing up. Than we have people that don't realize Hawass isn't a charge of a thing and others that think it's a giant clock telling us when it wad built. Seems to me been easier to just put the date on Stone. But still can't figure out why the builders would even care if we knew when. And than one guy who thinks sweat and urine are the same avoid visiting his home.

originally posted by: dragonridr
Getting crazy in here we have people that think aliens built the pyramids others want to date it be fore there was any signs of civilization around 6000 BC the first pottery starts showing up. Than we have people that don't realize Hawass isn't a charge of a thing and others that think it's a giant clock telling us when it wad built. Seems to me been easier to just put the date on Stone. But still can't figure out why the builders would even care if we knew when. And than one guy who thinks sweat and urine are the same avoid visiting his home.

Your showing your ignorance , pottery is showing up before 6000bc, and sweat has the same chemical composition as urine . That's why skin is called the third kidney.

Sea level has risen almost 400 feet in the last 10,000 years.

Even today something like 80% of the worlds population lives near a coastline.

The evidence is there, but it's 300 feet down under years of silt and sediment.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr
Getting crazy in here we have people that think aliens built the pyramids others want to date it be fore there was any signs of civilization around 6000 BC the first pottery starts showing up. Than we have people that don't realize Hawass isn't a charge of a thing and others that think it's a giant clock telling us when it wad built. Seems to me been easier to just put the date on Stone. But still can't figure out why the builders would even care if we knew when. And than one guy who thinks sweat and urine are the same avoid visiting his home.

Your showing your ignorance , pottery is showing up before 6000bc, and sweat has the same chemical composition as urine . That's why skin is called the third kidney.

Wrong on both counts egypt 1st pottery goes back to 6000 bc. And sweat does not contain urine..just uric acid.The composition of urine includes other body wastes, unlike sweat. With urine, ninety-six percent of it is water and four percent of it is waste. but feel free to prove me wrong we could rewrite egyptIogy and human anatomy in one awoop.

One more thing an archeologist finds an unknown civilization he's set for life thus is like every archeologists dream. Could you imagine being the one to discover there was a someone there before the egyptians. They would be the leading expert on an entire unknown culture. To day archeology is just hiding it is stupid. That archeologist would become rich.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: dragonridr
Getting crazy in here we have people that think aliens built the pyramids others want to date it be fore there was any signs of civilization around 6000 BC the first pottery starts showing up. Than we have people that don't realize Hawass isn't a charge of a thing and others that think it's a giant clock telling us when it wad built. Seems to me been easier to just put the date on Stone. But still can't figure out why the builders would even care if we knew when. And than one guy who thinks sweat and urine are the same avoid visiting his home.

Your showing your ignorance , pottery is showing up before 6000bc, and sweat has the same chemical composition as urine . That's why skin is called the third kidney.

Wrong on both counts egypt 1st pottery goes back to 6000 bc. And sweat does not contain urine..just uric acid.The composition of urine includes other body wastes, unlike sweat. With urine, ninety-six percent of it is water and four percent of it is waste. but feel free to prove me wrong we could rewrite egyptIogy and human anatomy in one awoop.

One more thing an archeologist finds an unknown civilization he's set for life thus is like every archeologists dream. Could you imagine being the one to discover there was a someone there before the egyptians. They would be the leading expert on an entire unknown culture. To day archeology is just hiding it is stupid. That archeologist would become rich.

All our endeavours are first and foremost a business model ,they must first conform to the politically correct order of merit to get funding . To get funding from those who distribute the funds must not contain what they would consider any whacky ideas . That is must not be too alternative, or creative. Like we all know Columbus discovered America first. Well tell that to the Vikings! When in reality no one discovered anything as their were people there already. Most of what people believe is fantasy and fairy tales anyway, and the truth of any matter is grey. People believe what they are culturally conditioned and comfortable to believe, in this age of accountancy the dumber the audience, the more vociferous in their unquestioning beliefs. The fact that the GP exists in the first place , must at least invoke some wonder at what the payback for all that effort was. One things for sure no mainstream theory fits, so all options are on the table.

a reply to: anonentity

No they don't funding for archeology has nothing to do with a business model it's hiw good the archeologist is at securing funds. Through writing papers to get university funding. Or talking to wealthy benefactors for private funding. It's up to the archeologist how he gets his funding.And sometimes the stranger the idea the easier it is to get funds. For example Not to long ago they found a predator tomb that went back 5600 year's . Thus was unexpected and contrary to egyptology. There is an archeologist trying to prove The pyramid of Meidum wasn't completed and didn't collapse like egypt logistics think. He believes we are looking at the remains of ramps around the pyramid. He claims you can see the placement of the blocks for moving and remnants of the ramp. You can always find money for even the strangest ideas as long as you can present it.

a reply to: Annee

he said that to our group many times on our tour with him,he says that a lot if you bothered to read his books instead of running your mouth without all the facts

a reply to: engineercutout

As for the star alignments, I remember Hancock's observations being that, for those stars that the pyramids aligned to to have been shining directly overhead of the locations in which they were aligned, the year would have been about 10,500 BC. Many of the pyraimds in other parts of the world also exhibit this date-sensitive stellar alignment of about 10,500 BC.

I hope you are aware how following this logic, i could also say: ground zero was aligned to some planet and that's why terrorists had to bring it down because it is alligned to say Jupiter at some random date in some random year?
I know Egyptians made a big deal about the Pleiades but only because it was the marker for them that spring would start, i.E. the next life cycle(agrar-year).
The fact that the great pyramid shows it's 8 sides only for a few seconds on solstice is a far bigger and realistic miracle they accomplished, then claiming they alligned them exactly to some stars at one day in 10.500 bc. And it would have been just one day on which this "allignment" would really work.
No wonder Hawass is sick and tired of them repeating these non-facts. It's super stupid.
And sad at the same time, because i also think the Sphinx is much older, but these two make it pretty hard to rationally approach the topic.
Just like our Creighton "expert" here, more harm than help. Thank god for Schoch, at least one who doesn't get carried away by his selfimportance and imagination.

originally posted by: sacredvisions
a reply to: Annee

he said that to our group many times on our tour with him,he says that a lot if you bothered to read his books instead of running your mouth without all the facts

Alot of what he says has been missing construed by alien sites. First he does indeed acknowledge the the great pyramid wad built in 2500 bc and he does indeed believe it was built by khufu. Was forced to admit that when he was dealing with the cartouche.

What he belives is the date of 10500 bc was important to the egyptians and they built the pyramids as a camemoration of the event. I never really seen him say what he thinks happened that year that i know of but I'm assuming he thinks that's when aliens visited the planet do to his books. By the way 10500 bc doesn't line up with the pyramids either. Read an article that shows do to egypt position it wasn't a match there reversed and off considerably. What he should have said is it was the closest match.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Hawass has a look/attitude against anything that doesn't fit into his neat little version of history. It looks something like this:

Then, after he makes that look and gesture, he storms off.

In fairness to Hawass, and i've no idea why that bloke deserves fairness from me, his attitude and firmly closed bigoted mind is pretty similar to the attitudes of many members here on ATS when talking about certain controversial subjects.

I can't stand the corrupt little gimp, but his attitude isn't particularly unique.

The payoffs for the rights to dig, plus all the golden artefacts that have already been melted down, has put the top echelons of Egypt through various overseas Universities, the spin is that the present Egyptians are the descendants of the people who built the greatest monument on Earth. So its all political, and if any fact might come along and rock the boat, it wont gain much traction in the mainstream. Hawas probably isn't top dog , but he would be the main man with regards to keeping his masters happy, and protecting the present business model. I say this because he kept his job during the turmoil, of the Arab spring joke. The good ole boys hung on as they do, because they get the funding from you know who. The alternatives weren't much cop, so the status quo is probably the best, because if extremists took over they would probably blow the place up.

The bible says that in Egypt at the border, (Giza means border in Arabic). Their is a temple to God. Which suggests that it was already there, and would have been a well known monument, well before, it was renovated. The main stones in the Kings chamber are the same type of stones that the stones of other ancient monuments are made of, "Spirit stone" that is Granite with high amounts of Quartz. Where high amounts of Quartz occur naturally, high amounts of anomalies seem to be reported, especially along geological stress lines. That's why Napoleon left the kings chamber with an ashen face, also he was about to tell what happened there but he also said "you wouldn't believe me anyway" when he was about to say,but then changed his mind. Whatever the truth is, its well outside the general paradigm of Napoleons times. We can assume he gained some type of information. Which wouldn't not have been received well if he went public. We can only guess at what it was, but it obviously had something to do with sleeping in that particular place. Which might suggest at the true purpose of the structure.

A point of interest about Napoleon. He was a Freemason right?

I was recently reading that Plato, in his initiation into the Mysteries, said that he was placed within a pyramid for three days, and experienced a symbolic death and rebirth. I wonder if Napoleon's time in the Pyramid was part of an initiation?

originally posted by: sacredvisions
a reply to: Annee

he said that to our group many times on our tour with him,he says that a lot if you bothered to read his books instead of running your mouth without all the facts

Yeah, he generally believes more in advanced HUMAN civilizations and technology in ancient times, not aliens.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: anonentity

No they don't funding for archeology has nothing to do with a business model it's hiw good the archeologist is at securing funds. Through writing papers to get university funding. Or talking to wealthy benefactors for private funding. It's up to the archeologist how he gets his funding.And sometimes the stranger the idea the easier it is to get funds. For example Not to long ago they found a predator tomb that went back 5600 year's . Thus was unexpected and contrary to egyptology. There is an archeologist trying to prove The pyramid of Meidum wasn't completed and didn't collapse like egypt logistics think. He believes we are looking at the remains of ramps around the pyramid. He claims you can see the placement of the blocks for moving and remnants of the ramp. You can always find money for even the strangest ideas as long as you can present it.

Yeah.... but most funding goes to scientists and archaeologists in line with the dominant paradigm. Most universities will NOT give funding to you for fringe theories, period.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: engineercutout

I hope you are aware how following this logic, i could also say: ground zero was aligned to some planet and that's why terrorists had to bring it down because it is alligned to say Jupiter at some random date in some random year?

You could, but then I think you would just be engaging in wild speculation. I do not follow your logic: why would terrorists bring "it"(ground zero?) down simply because "it" was aligned to Jupiter? That sounds like quite a leap to me, not sure how much logic enters in here. I see that you are trying to suggest here that Hancock has jumped to some wild and fanciful conclusions as a result of his investigations. This is not the case, or at least it was not the case when he wrote "Fingerprints Of The Gods".

What he did do a lot in that book was ask some very interesting and thought-provoking questions, questions raised by his observations, questions that tend to make Egyptologists and other historians very uncomfortable at times. For instance, what the blank is up with Easter Island? Have you ever taken a closer look at the monuments there? Who would go to all the trouble to build such things, and why? Mr. Hancock provides few answers, mostly justs asks a lot of questions...

The fact that the great pyramid shows it's 8 sides only for a few seconds on solstice is a far bigger and realistic miracle they accomplished, then claiming they alligned them exactly to some stars at one day in 10.500 bc. And it would have been just one day on which this "allignment" would really work.
No wonder Hawass is sick and tired of them repeating these non-facts. It's super stupid.
And sad at the same time, because i also think the Sphinx is much older, but these two make it pretty hard to rationally approach the topic.
Just like our Creighton "expert" here, more harm than help. Thank god for Schoch, at least one who doesn't get carried away by his selfimportance and imagination.

Actually, the stellar alignments are compelling, but you may dismiss them if you like. Monuments around the world, aligned to a map of the sky as it would have appeared about 10,500 BC. Distance, angular orientation, and in some cases size of the monument all in proportion to the stars they represent. They don't align to a later time period, they align only to that era, or to earlier eras of the same position of the precession of the constellations(about 26,500 yrs.-so, 37,000 BC, or 63,500 BC, etc.).

Hancock didn't build the pyramids. I'm pretty sure that he didn't just fabricate his theories after some wild hallucinogen trip or something either. He doesn't even really make any specific claims as to what all these things mean, only points these things out and asks the reader a lot of questions. So your ground zero Jupiter alignment terrorist comparison here doesn't really apply, as that is not even how Hancock writes. He does do a good job of pointing out the mysterious nature of much of our archaeological record, though.

I'm guessing you haven't read any of Hancock's work. I have a challenge for all of you. Read "Fingerprints Of The Gods", then come back and tell me there is nothing enigmatic in our ancient history. I would also like to see some of the evidence of all these "wild claims" Hancock is supposedly making. A youtube video, perhaps, or a radio interview maybe? Judging by the number of people ready to tear him down, I would imagine such evidence should be easy to find. Anyone? With all of the Coast to Coast interviews he's done over the years, he must've been caught up in speculation at least once or twice.

Of course I'd really like to see this smoking gun Southern Baptist meets New Age philosophy type sermon given by Hancock that the would be debunkers seem to be alluding to, where he states wild speculation as fact. Haven't seen that one yet, but maybe I'm wrong and he's gotten off in the weeds, and I just missed the detour. If someone has this type of evidence, I'd sure like to see it posted here or linked. We've already got the guy under the microscope here, we may as well rake him over the coals while we're at it...

a reply to: engineercutout

You want to believe. There is no alignment. That's the whole point.
Easter Islands are magnificent and i was actually following the star alignment thought a while myself, fact is: it doesn't work, one day out of 13.000 years is hardly more than a coincidence.
Don't dismiss the use of drugs in order to communicate with the spirits of our ancestors, we might be doing this for said 13.000 years and there is more evidence to it, than Hancocks theory has to offer, for someone who can see how i at the same time could randomly align some buildings to any "geomagnetic" line or number of stars. If I paint you a picture with dots and draw a line through it, will this prove to you how you got creamed by a snakeoil salesman? Not right?
So why should i be convinced by a theory he made up and can't explain at the same time?

a reply to: Peeple

Can you provide me with more evidence to refute his arguments other than saying "no it's not"? It's actually a little more involved than just connecting some dots.

I am open to new information, so please set me straight, if you can. Here, I'll paste it in again from my earlier reply to emphasize it:

I'm guessing you haven't read any of Hancock's work. I have a challenge for all of you. Read "Fingerprints Of The Gods", then come back and tell me there is nothing enigmatic in our ancient history. I would also like to see some of the evidence of all these "wild claims" Hancock is supposedly making. A youtube video, perhaps, or a radio interview maybe? Judging by the number of people ready to tear him down, I would imagine such evidence should be easy to find. Anyone? With all of the Coast to Coast interviews he's done over the years, he must've been caught up in speculation at least once or twice.

Of course I'd really like to see this smoking gun Southern Baptist meets New Age philosophy type sermon given by Hancock that the would be debunkers seem to be alluding to, where he states wild speculation as fact. Haven't seen that one yet, but maybe I'm wrong and he's gotten off in the weeds, and I just missed the detour. If someone has this type of evidence, I'd sure like to see it posted here or linked. We've already got the guy under the microscope here, we may as well rake him over the coals while we're at it...

I look forward to being enlightened...

a reply to: eriktheawful

I've often wondered why they seem so unflexible in entertaining other ideas.

This is a major flaw in the current system of science. People will actually hide for years finds that are not in agreement with what is accepted for fear of losing the funds or status. This has held us back from knowing more since the time that scientists became so unreasonable which the first ones were not.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Unfortunately the scientific world is rife with egotistical cry babies such as Hawass, and even more unfortunate is that history is often written by those people because they are more stubborn than anyone else and never stop pushing their version of history.

So true and unfortunate that many people believe that holding a Phd means you know best and can interpret better than any people with no paper but who have knowledge on their side. There are dumb scientists out there and genius self educated. History teaches us this if we will open our eyes. People need to stop the scientist worship.

originally posted by: Peeple
What i don't get is how could the pyramid and sphinx be related to astronomical images made up much later? Wasn't it the greeks or even later?
Wouldn't we then have the "great thigh of Seth" instead of a lion with a human face?

they are talking about the placement of the pyramids with the constellation Orion 11,500 yrs ago. and the Sphinx pointing to where the constellation Leo would've risen at the same time. there is another idea that the Sphinx wasn't a lion but a dog www.ancient-egypt.org...

a reply to: engineercutout

And finger print of Thr gods was wrong on almost every point it made. So if that's the only book of his you read than what made you decide he's right? Like the peri riece map is not Antarctica his book deceived you. He claimed it shows there was an advanced civilization prior 5o the ice caps melting. the part he thinks was Antarctica on the map was austrailia. In fact a companion map had it labeled but he either didn't know that or lied pick one.

As far as the star alignment it's not even close you would have to move egypt on the globe. When they checked the star alignment they accepted anything that looked close do you realize you have to literally flip the pyramids around to get them to line up in 10500. Oh they didn't tell you that in t le do ok did they. And than when they do flip them darn that throws ot off again. Even better egypt wouldn't have used this grouping back than it had no significance since it was much further to the east at the time. Later it becomes a permanent xonstellation. Meaning it circled but nev er set. This is when it became to mean eternal life.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: eriktheawful

I've often wondered why they seem so unflexible in entertaining other ideas.

This is a major flaw in the current system of science. People will actually hide for years finds that are not in agreement with what is accepted for fear of losing the funds or status. This has held us back from knowing more since the time that scientists became so unreasonable which the first ones were not.

Ok I'll assume you just don't know how archeology works. First it's a team you never just have one. Each can solicit money for the dig as well. To do this they do quarterly reports on progress and monthly on finds. Nothing to report means no dig. Archeology actually has the opisit problem you claim. In the rush to look productive they often put out things that were mistakes. They for example claim they found part of something and it turns out to be a rock. archeology is all about what you find they hide nothing.

People who want to believe aliens were here use this excuse because there is no supporting evidence for this belief. But God to be the archeologist that could prove this you are an instant super star and your name would be known by the entire world.