Would this radio survive an EMP attack?

link to YT vid

I electrically restored this radio from 1942, interestingly one of the last models before Philco shut the plant for WW2. Would this survive an EMP attack? It has 7 tubes. If it did survive, would the power lines still be functional to operate it? I'm not a survivalist per se, radio is a part-time hobby for me and I wonder about this. Plus I like to show off a little.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

It is beautiful ! What is the tuning mechanism like in there? Wrapped wire, or other?

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Neat hobby looks like you did a great job on it.


But I would tend to think vacuum tubes are even more susceptible to EMP.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Nope...

Just kidding. I have no idea, as I'm not too skilled in the area, either... I'm just guessing something that old, or that old of electronic, wouldn't fare too well. I COULD be wrong, but in my mind, something that is as sensitive as a vacuum tube would be more susceptible to the emp...

Again, I COULD (probably am) be wrong...

Your reply didn't show up when I loaded the page, but I agree with your assessment, based on my non-existent knowledge.
a reply to: Greathouse

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Hehehe, ok after looking at a few inside photos of old radios like this, does it even have a discernible tuning mechanism!?! All I can really say here is I find this a cool hobby and I am even a little jealous now.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
link to YT vid

I electrically restored this radio from 1942, interestingly one of the last models before Philco shut the plant for WW2. Would this survive an EMP attack? It has 7 tubes. If it did survive, would the power lines still be functional to operate it? I'm not a survivalist per se, radio is a part-time hobby for me and I wonder about this. Plus I like to show off a little.

Thanks for posting. Well... ereeerrrrrrrraaaahhhh OK! Say we survive a blast. What's next? (( mind you of the electrical frying of some metals..))

PEN AND PAPER!

That's right folks.. learn to write a letter to grandma once in a while. Or do you know how to draw out a hash tag? Art, it's almost extinct..but still taught at some public schools..

Damn it! I was taught this in boys scout.. hmm take a razor... coil.. pencil......

OP! I'm dying to see what the newbs produce!

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Vacuum tubes are VERY resistant to EMP!

But it would be much more practical to "store" a modern battery operated small radio inside a metallic shielding box. Use two layer for extra paranoia, one metallic box isolated inside another. At least 50 to 60dB attenuation from LF to the GHz is probably sufficient.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Well OP, if you're really concerned about the welfare of your radio, if it's small enough I'd recommend getting an old, large, defunct Microwave Oven, removing the power cord, and sticking your radio in there if you think s**t is going to hit the fan. Essentially the Microwave is a reversed Faraday Cage (hopefully I remembered the spelling correctly), and I've read that that should save your electronics if you're that desperate.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

I love old radios like that. You did a wonderful job. As for surviving emp attacks, I really don't know how that would affect a tube style radio.
I doubt if power lines would work. It would most likely take out the grid. That said, there are several things that you could look up for improvised generators. These would be powered by a treadmill or bike, most likely. I've heard of using an alternator from a car as a generator, and hooking that to a car battery to store the energy. Of course that would be DC power. You would need something to convert it to AC to run the radio.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Need hobby looks like you did a great job on it.


But I would tend to think vacuum tubes are even more susceptible to EMP.

Tubes are close to immune. It's one reason we (the gubmint) once plopped down beaucoup tax dollars on developing electron ballistic integrated circuits, which are basically ICs based around "integrated tubes" instead of transistors. Then decided not to use them. It's the gubmint, what can I say.

The thing with ICs is that most of them are some sort of insulated gate technology, like CMOS. You then have issues with gate punchthrough, which destroys the part. With bipolar transistor ICs (like opamps) you get less of that, but then you end up with issues like avalanche failures.

Also, any system that uses state logic can end up having single event upsets, which can just ruin your day, especially if it happens with, say, your switching power supply.

Tubes don't tend to have any of these failure modes. Integrated ballistic electronics was really clever, and it's a shame they didn't implement it.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe
Really cool and nice job. I love tube audio gear myself but more in the hifi realm. I have heard that a partial reason the soviets are still manufacturing tubes is the military applications..I do believe that the migs used vacuum tubes in thier radios...presumably due to survival of an EMP. Some of the higher end modern tube amps use the same tubes..cant remeber the particular one, something fun to look into.
Cheers

Edit: Look into a power inverter that runs off a car battery or one with a built in battery..keep it charged..lol, then you have the right power to run the radio if the power grid is down which I think is likley, I remember some solar activity some years back that really messed with the power grids in easter Canada and the states.

a reply to: Bedlam
Nice explanation


This is the tube they use in the Mig..and some pretty nice stereo amps
www.jogis-roehrenbude.de...
Pretty low plate voltage so it must last a long time.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Need hobby looks like you did a great job on it.


But I would tend to think vacuum tubes are even more susceptible to EMP.

Tubes are close to immune. It's one reason we (the gubmint) once plopped down beaucoup tax dollars on developing electron ballistic integrated circuits, which are basically ICs based around "integrated tubes" instead of transistors. Then decided not to use them. It's the gubmint, what can I say.

The thing with ICs is that most of them are some sort of insulated gate technology, like CMOS. You then have issues with gate punchthrough, which destroys the part. With bipolar transistor ICs (like opamps) you get less of that, but then you end up with issues like avalanche failures.

Also, any system that uses state logic can end up having single event upsets, which can just ruin your day, especially if it happens with, say, your switching power supply.

Tubes don't tend to have any of these failure modes. Integrated ballistic electronics was really clever, and it's a shame they didn't implement it.

Thanks for that explanation, it makes more sense to me now.

Would the EMP effect be increased if the radio was both plugged in and on? The radio could be plugged in but no power would be reaching the tubes because they event close the circuit until the armed switch is turned on.


One last question please. I thought a really strong EMP could damage copper transmission lines?

Is that true or just a urban legend?

a reply to: bluemooone2

Thank you. It has a dial cord, two actually, one to move the tuning indicator needle and one to go from the knob to the tuning capacitor. I had to order a new cord. Those are not fun to replace.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Vacuum tubes are VERY resistant to EMP!

But it would be much more practical to "store" a modern battery operated small radio inside a metallic shielding box. Use two layer for extra paranoia, one metallic box isolated inside another. At least 50 to 60dB attenuation from LF to the GHz is probably sufficient.

If I could get Zaphod58 in here.. you would get more than one star.. well if you understood why U.S. aviation scientist couldn't laugh after what they found out about Russian aviation..

Star!

a reply to: bluemooone2

a reply to: bluemooone2

It's a great hobby and the electronics are pretty simple for anyone who is inclined. This pic is the chassis when I first took it out of the cabinet for repair. The tuning mechanism is at the very bottom of the pic, it's called a variable capacitor. Two sets of rows of metal plates that mesh together when you tune the radio but don't touch each other.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Thats actually kinda what I suspected, but I was not sure! Very nice!

a reply to: Greathouse

I had heard that vacuum tubes are immune to EMP, and that the russians use them. Even after 50 or 60 years, the tubes rarely go bad in these old radios. Tubes can take a beating. It's usually the electrolytic capacitors that deteriorate and the old paper and wax capacitors.

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

I would say no.

The first tests were nuclear and EMP was a byproduct that was back in 1945 your radio is 1942. During testing they shielded their equipment yet much was still fried by spurious pickup. It was once called radio flash.

Basically an EMP will send a charged burst into your equipment. It may only burn out a few components in it that could be easily fixed compared to modern radios.