Misunderstood Sleep Paralysis And Astral Projection

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It's crazy that you guys and the bible thumpers both use the same poor debate tactics. But this should be better because you guys are actually making claims that we can test right?

...........right?

a reply to: BlueMule

As I've stated before. They should all be devout Christians, Muslims and Jews because they use the same methodology and anecdotal evidence to proclaim and validate their position as truth.

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Woodcarver

You made it a numbers game, I made it about representing dissenting opinions of scientists who have legitimate grievances. I notice you avoid the meat and potatoes of the letter, and you probably will never read the textbook. Willful ignorance is the only reason there are pseudo-skeptics like you.

👣

I am actually all for the proper study of pretty much anything you're interested in.

What i'm interested in is getting to the nuts and bolts explaining how it is done. Because without that, all you have is anecdote and wild fantastic sounding claims. So let's get to it.


What can you do in the astral plain?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I guess Visitor doesn't wanna teach me.

In the spirit of good science, this should be an interesting group of people to get a proper data set from.

a reply to: Woodcarver

a reply to: Woodcarver

I'll make a graph

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

And you're identifying yourself with nothing at all.

You don't see the fallacy in that statement do you?

Peel away the body until we arrive at "you", what would be left?

Well that's just the thing. You would never arrive at "me", if all you can take away is that which belongs to me. All the matter in the universe equals to virtually ZERO. What constitutes me in the physical realm is virtually EMPTY space. This isn't new science, where have you been?
So what exactly are you 'peeling away'....of me when virtually 100 % of me is intangible?

Actually it is not an assumption to say I am a body, as all evidence shows this. It is an assumption and a fallacy (homunculus fallacy) to say otherwise, especially when based on nothing but specious reasoning.

There is not a shred of proof which supports the belief that the totality of you is a body. The same body which you and everyone else in the world claims ownership of and thus identifies with. The assumption is yours and the belief in that assumption is all you're defending.

a reply to: Visitor2012

When does class start. Let's cut all the rhetoric and get crackin

a reply to: In4ormant

Ever wonder how they come up with this stuff?

"I'm more than my body and its functions"
---Ok, then why can't we capture this " thing" you are after the body dies?

"Because it isn't physical and can't be contained" ....

Yesteryear scientific discovery has ALREADY said that what makes up physical matter is 99.99999999999999999 nothing. Which means ZERO as fast as we're concerned. So then, in light of these discoveries, how then is it difficult to understand that whatever you 'contain' physically...is actually NOTHING at all?

OK, you bring back any information or insight from this place or is it just a really pretty place with no discernable purpose?

You want to grab a board and ride a few waves or You want to sit on the beach and talk about the surf? Why don't you try it and tell us what YOU think about the experience? You're not truly a skeptic unless you know what you're being skeptic about.

a reply to: TheJourney
Commentary:
There are those who can project, and those who cannot, and still those who don't believe its possible.

Has anyone floated to the corner of the room and looked down at their body lying there with eyes closed? I have.

Has anyone ever sat in a chair in a different room of the house and "saw" and told the occupants in another room what they were doing, saying, whispering, moving, what chair, what positions etc? I have.

Has anyone projected to any place or location either past, present or forward in time, checked that info obtained, and found every single bit of it was true? I have.

Everyone understands the governments of the world have spent millions on "remote viewing"-which is easily akin to astrally "projecting" to a certain place or places in time, rt? They do this because it works. It took many years, and much proven evidence to them to find value in the process...and they continue.

In Conclusion: I follow these threads because I have always been whats loosly referred to as a "leaper"-one who with little effort goes into a meditative place, picks a destination, and "travels" there. And one can return with "evidence" of what was there, seen, done, places, colors, people, situations...through a variety of methods-each quite different from what works for the next guy, and can be ascertained as not only probable...but definitely possible.

I dont discuss Astral Projection much here because of the doubters, but then again...I dont have to. Its a gift. From God? The cosmos? The devil? The Sub-concious mind? I dont know. But it is a reality. I have assisted more than several ATS members here privately in their quests...I can only advise, not teach.

Each person finds their own way. And to go "on-forum" and attempt to prove things to the nay-sayers here...is pointless. It is something possible for some, tried by many, learned by a few, and dismissed by others.

Astral projection...even picking destinations and people passed on to visit...is more that possible. It is a reality in visiting another reality. But not one for all, because not all will accept it, try it or be successful in doing it.

Then again...not everyone has to.....Blessings All....Mysterioustranger

a reply to: Woodcarver

The proper study of psi starts with an impartial analysis of the mountains of anecdotal evidence that has been reported through the ages, so that we can get an idea of what psi experiments are supposed to look for in the first place. But debunkers are incapable of that, because they dismiss it all as crazy delusion not worthy of pursuing with diligence.

👣

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

Ever wonder how they come up with this stuff?

"I'm more than my body and its functions"
---Ok, then why can't we capture this " thing" you are after the body dies?

"Because it isn't physical and can't be contained" ....

Yesteryear scientific discovery has ALREADY said that what makes up physical matter is 99.99999999999999999 nothing. Which means ZERO as fast as we're concerned. So then, in light of these discoveries, how then is it difficult to understand that whatever you 'contain' physically...is actually NOTHING at all?

OK, you bring back any information or insight from this place or is it just a really pretty place with no discernable purpose?

You want to grab a board and ride a few waves or You want to sit on the beach and talk about the surf? Why don't you try it and tell us what YOU think about the experience? You're not truly a skeptic unless you know what you're being skeptic about.

Again you dance around the issue. Are you going to teach me and prove it to the world with my test or not. Stop changing the subject. Yes or No

a reply to: Visitor2012

You don't see the fallacy in that statement do you?

No. I'm still waiting for you to tell me. But I don't think providing arguments for your assertions is your method.

Well that's just the thing. You would never arrive at "me", if all you can take away is that which belongs to me. All the matter in the universe equals to virtually ZERO. What constitutes me in the physical realm is virtually EMPTY space. This isn't new science, where have you been?
So what exactly are you 'peeling away'....of me when virtually 100 % of me is intangible?

You should ask a physicist what they mean by empty space.

Cartesian dualism has been all but dropped for hundreds of years. All I have to do is utilize the same tired ol' arguments to watch you flip around like a fish out of water. Where have you been?

If you are intangible, how are you able to manipulate the tangible? How are you contained within that which is unable to contain you?

There is not a shred of proof which supports the belief that the totality of you is a body. The same body which you and everyone else in the world claims ownership of and thus identifies with. The assumption is yours and the belief in that assumption is all you're defending.

The hilarious part is only bodies can assert this nonsense. It's like a banana trying to prove he is not a banana. Every time you open your mouth to speak, or use your fingers to type, you are proving yourself wrong and me right. Keep it up.

a reply to: In4ormant

Since we are going into the nature of reality argument here let me clarify for you. NO, I can't prove my reality exists anymore than you can yours. What I can do is devise a way to test my beliefs that others can then observe and can reproduce on their own that will produce similar results and show a common experience.

That's perfect advice. In fact, there are many tens of thousands of people who astral project and meet to compare notes of their experience with others who have also observed, and reproduced on their own with similar results and show a common experience. Otherwise, you have no common experience to share.

I'm asking 2 people who state they share a common experience within this astral reality to share information and let us observe the results. You continue to spout new age nonsense because you know it can't be done.

I find it hard to believe that out of all the testimonials you've read about the subject, there isn't a similarity to be found. Alas, It's hard to get into a real discussion about the subject with someone who isn't aware of the experience nor willing to get out of their cave to try it for themselves. All of this debate simply is not necessary. And instead of painting astral projectors as people unwilling to answer questions, by asking them to proof something not even YOU can do with in terms of describing and substantiating reality. When 99.999999 percent of it is nothingness to begin with.

Where is the due diligence here? Or is this site 99% armchair skeptics and 1 percent people with experience in the subject matters their discussing?

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

Since we are going into the nature of reality argument here let me clarify for you. NO, I can't prove my reality exists anymore than you can yours. What I can do is devise a way to test my beliefs that others can then observe and can reproduce on their own that will produce similar results and show a common experience.

That's perfect advice. In fact, there are many tens of thousands of people who astral project and meet to compare notes of their experience with others who have also observed, and reproduced on their own with similar results and show a common experience. Otherwise, you have no common experience to share.

I'm asking 2 people who state they share a common experience within this astral reality to share information and let us observe the results. You continue to spout new age nonsense because you know it can't be done.

I find it hard to believe that out of all the testimonials you've read about the subject, there isn't a similarity to be found. Alas, It's hard to get into a real discussion about the subject with someone who isn't aware of the experience nor willing to get out of their cave to try it for themselves. All of this debate simply is not necessary. And instead of painting astral projectors as people unwilling to answer questions, by asking them to proof something not even YOU can do with in terms of describing and substantiating reality. When 99.999999 percent of it is nothingness to begin with.

Where is the due diligence here? Or is this site 99% armchair skeptics and 1 percent people with experience in the subject matters their discussing?

Why do these tens of thousands need to compare notes if they are in the same place? And again a simple yes or no will do

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

Since we are going into the nature of reality argument here let me clarify for you. NO, I can't prove my reality exists anymore than you can yours. What I can do is devise a way to test my beliefs that others can then observe and can reproduce on their own that will produce similar results and show a common experience.

That's perfect advice. In fact, there are many tens of thousands of people who astral project and meet to compare notes of their experience with others who have also observed, and reproduced on their own with similar results and show a common experience. Otherwise, you have no common experience to share.

I'm asking 2 people who state they share a common experience within this astral reality to share information and let us observe the results. You continue to spout new age nonsense because you know it can't be done.

I find it hard to believe that out of all the testimonials you've read about the subject, there isn't a similarity to be found. Alas, It's hard to get into a real discussion about the subject with someone who isn't aware of the experience nor willing to get out of their cave to try it for themselves. All of this debate simply is not necessary. And instead of painting astral projectors as people unwilling to answer questions, by asking them to proof something not even YOU can do with in terms of describing and substantiating reality. When 99.999999 percent of it is nothingness to begin with.

Where is the due diligence here? Or is this site 99% armchair skeptics and 1 percent people with experience in the subject matters their discussing?

I'm out of my cave. Lunch packed. Told the wife I'll be gone for a few. Still waiting on the school bus to pick me up. You gonna do it or not?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

And you're identifying yourself with nothing at all.

Visitor2012-"You don't see the fallacy in that statement do you? "

No. I'm still waiting for you to tell me. But I don't think providing arguments for your assertions is your method.

On the contrary. How about you answer some questions. Let's start from the beginning. How about you provide an argument which supports the idea and belief that physicality exists at all? Show me an argument, PROOF, which claims that physicality (in other words) matter, is a REAL tangible thing. Outside of our perception of it and our interaction with perceivable fields of energy. It isn't. So do YOU identify yourself with the majority of what you are which is -nothingness? Do you even know what it means to identify yourself with the Virtually nothingness a physical body is? Doubtful.

So identifying yourself with something that is ALREADY basically made out of NOTHING, doesn't help your debate any.

Even if I were to identify myself with MY body (which is a paradox in words), the body itself is virtually nothingness in terms of a physical reality. So why do you urge someone to basically combine themselves with nothing before they can validate that which it is being combined with? The revolving silly logic is yours.

If you are intangible, how are you able to manipulate the tangible?

What tangible thing is there to manipulate? Are you talking about matter?

How are you contained within that which is unable to contain you?

Who said I was contained within anything?

Visitor2012-"There is not a shred of proof which supports the belief that the totality of you is a body. The same body which you and everyone else in the world claims ownership of and thus identifies with. The assumption is yours and the belief in that assumption is all you're defending."


The hilarious part is only bodies can assert this nonsense.

I find it more interesting and in a way, chilling, that you refer to yourself as a piece of meat that somehow has the ability to assert itself.

a reply to: In4ormant

I'm out of my cave. Lunch packed. Told the wife I'll be gone for a few. Still waiting on the school bus to pick me up. You gonna do it or not?

Well that's just the thing, school is out. There's no school bus, and this ain't in school books. So you'll have to be a grown adult and try the experience for yourself. Or you too locked in your old beliefs to try? No matter how you look at it, this is the most important question to ask yourself, leave everyone else out of it. Otherwise you have nothing to bring to the table.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

You should ask a physicist what they mean by empty space.

O rly. What happened to 'science is boring'. Now suddenly it's run to the authority of physicists.

Pseudo-skeptics are cowardly hypocrites.

👣

a reply to: In4ormant

Why do these tens of thousands need to compare notes if they are in the same place? And again a simple yes or no will do

Well, why are you here doing the same thing about your experience of life? Aren't you here comparing notes with other people who are in the same physical realm as you, all discussing their findings? That's a silly argument. The answer to your question is the same as my question to you.
If you're so certain about reality, why do I see you all over this site doing the same thing? Aren't you trying to get a better understanding of your experience of life as well?

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

I'm out of my cave. Lunch packed. Told the wife I'll be gone for a few. Still waiting on the school bus to pick me up. You gonna do it or not?

Well that's just the thing, school is out. There's no school bus, and this ain't in school books. So you'll have to be a grown adult and try the experience for yourself. Or you too locked in your old beliefs to try? No matter how you look at it, this is the most important question to ask yourself. Otherwise you have nothing to bring to the table.

I specifically asked you to teach me so we could share an experience and prove to the world. You keep saying I'm too locked in my own beliefs to try. AGAIN, for the 4th time. Will you or will you not help me to experience this and conduct my test to enlighten everyone. How long can you skirt this before everyone sees your just treading water.