Why Do Atheists Attack mainly Christians and Muslims but not Jews?

a reply to: uncommitted

Sounds like you should just be a theistic agnostic.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
You are the first person I have seen say what I think about the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" mantra. I also began to question this rule as a hard and fast teaching.

I'm going to give credit where it is due. A hippy friend of mine (ex-Jew) pointed this out to me. After he said it, I too realized the flaws in the statement.

As you noted, it can be very problematic if taken to far. There are a lot of ignorant people who could project hypothetical situations and end up harming others. For example, if someone would want to be put out of their misery if they were old, can they then "do unto others" and put elderly people out of their misery?

If a man or woman believes in no wining and that people should just stuff it, can they then shut others down when they are conveying real concerns or feelings, because they would allow others to do so to them if they were "wining."

It goes on and on.

All this rule actually seems to accomplish in its literal sense is ostensibly limiting hypocrisy, not actual good action.

This is why I don't call it a "rule" anymore and just call it a "guideline". It certainly IS good advice to live by for MOST things in life, but people are weird. And they may have weird tastes, so even a helpful statement like "Do unto others..." can be misused if you let it stand as a hard rule instead of a soft guideline.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: liejunkie01

Because they have been educated to only think inside the box. Outside thinking is blasphemous. The box is their faith and if it is wrong then their reality is shattered. Therefore they can't afford to think outside the box.

I'm sorry, you have just painted billions of people with one broad stroke and I'm afraid it was the wrong brush. Perhaps you are showing the limitations of your own little box in which you feel comfortable making such assertations because within your little box it makes sense.

No, I'm pretty spot on. I know it sucks to hear the truth, but that's your problem. Not mine. Christianity has been shown by science to be flawed and most likely not true. Everyone who believes it is believing a fairy tale in lieu of evidence that says it is a flawed and incorrect belief. If that describes billions of people, then so be it. It's a shame that a lie such as Christianity is so pervasively believed, but hey I can't change that and it is their decision to do so. Unfortunately, it starts with brainwashing and being told that Christianity is true. It's hard to shake such beliefs when you've been told they are true your whole life.

That's the trouble with some atheists, so passionate in arguing about something they profess to not believe in. You also seem to believe that all who follow a faith must by definition follow a very strictly defined set of rules - not so, perhaps in your experience, but that's your experience.
My own rule is do unto others as you would have done to you. Not that difficult is it? To me, that is the core of Christian belief. You may have a different opinion but as far as I'm concerned, that's your opinion although why as an atheist you would even have one says more about you than it does me.

I am certainly not an atheist. I was raised Christian but like the person you are responding to, do not believe in it anymore theologically. Hell, 6000 year old earth, that we are all condemned and can only be saved through Jesus' sacrifice. The latter is the core of Christianity, and the only real difference between Christianity and most other religions.

I hate to break it to you bub, but treating others consciously (do unto others) is not the core of Christianity nor is that different from countless other religions. Most religious teachers say some variant of that.

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately though, faith is a personal thing, nobody else gets to dictate the terms - that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it

The whole 6,000 year old thing seems to only have any kind of traction in America as far as I'm aware and even then it's young Earth creationists who seem to believe in it - I'm not quite sure why such a belief has somehow come to represent how anyone who defines themself as a Christian as by default expected to think the same.

I agree with you that people can and should define faith for themselves. And, I actually prefer people who claim a moderate more spiritual interpretation of Christianity or any other religion. There is nothing wrong with do unto others.

The 6000 year old creationism however goes back beyond the US. It may be primarily supported now days in the US, but it wasn't always so.

To be honest, most critiques of organized religion are not aimed at moderates or spiritual people within their ranks. The critiques are aimed (rightfully) at the fundamentalists and extremists, who not only have literal interpretations of every word in ancient texts but claim that we should follow their interpretations too, that laws should be based on them, that wars can be justified based on them, etc. Do you not agree that that small subset should be criticized, even by others of their faith?

A very thoughtful post which I have starred. You're right, actually the 6,000 years thing actually was initially proposed by an amatuer geologist in England in ( I think off the top of my head) the 17th century, but it wasn't a religious based assumption, it was based on how his assumption of the rock strata where he chose to dig, and what it meant for the length of time each would take to form. I'm not aware any mainstream religion ever accepted or possibly even acknowledged it. Truth is though, it was fairly much laughed away at the time.

As to your last paragraph, any group which shows intolerance at a level that could be considered threatening or worse to any other group of people because they are in some way different to themselves deserves all the criticism they get IMHO.

Word. Also there are the Biblical chronologists, which used the lineages described in the Bible to come up with 6000 year old creation. They ranged from Jewish to Christian theologians. en.wikipedia.org...

This goes back to taking the text too literally. If you follow the geneology chronologies back to Adam, then yes, it would be difficult even with some of the asserted longer life spans in the OT for the Earth to be older than thousands or tens of thousands of years.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

Sounds like you should just be a theistic agnostic.

We can all get tied up in labels, it's not something that defines me so not really important to me.

a reply to: uncommitted

Fair enough, but you call yourself a Christian...

Jewish perspective: "Leave us the hell alone"

Hindu perspective: "leave us the hell alone"

Atheist/Agnostic perspective "leave us the hell alone"

Buddhist Perspective "leave us the hell alone"

Christian/Muslim perspective: "Be like us or die and if we don't kill you expect the law of the land to at least reflect our rules usually that means punishing everyone else severely for bs reasons"

Can it be any clearer than that?

Take ATS as a microcosm, sometimes you get Atheists or Jews making a thread or sometimes defending but what's the real? The only "God damned" reason they do is because they are a minority and are scared out of their wits, they are busy trying to give their kids educations and face lunatics who want to teach creationism or "Ban" or "Burn" books and what have you.

But then here is a site, like the world RUINED by endless threads from Christians and Muslims essentially attacking Jews, Israel, Atheists...anyone and each other constantly 2-3 a day like psychopaths post, post, post Christians from America and Muslims from thousands of miles away obsessed with freakin "the holy land" and the bs in their bibles/korans...

It makes ats suck and it makes the world suck

Death Cults obsessed on proselytizing, converting, changing and punishing everyone else...

This thread shouldn't be focused on Jews it should say "everybody else" "why don't they pick on EVERYBODY ELSE" and the reason that is, is because everyone else isn't a nightmare pox on the entire planet. Call out anyone on any "LOCAL" conflict or hatred it PALES compared to TWO religions that have to own the effin planet and turn the clock back to the 1300's via socially antagonizing behaviors based on moronic beliefs of the afterlife they can never "Know" for sure but are willing to kill or die for all over the world.

Look at the threads, see the WORLD there are TWO religions that never STFU, that's why.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

Fair enough, but you call yourself a Christian...

I follow what I consider are Christian values. I appreciate you may follow an astonishingly similar set of values but call yourself an agnostic. Likewise for people who believe they follow the same broadly set of values but associate them with a different faith. Each to their own.

a reply to: uncommitted

I follow the moral guidelines of the society I live in. "do unto others..." is a good way to sum those moral guidelines up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I follow the expression. I do like using these morals to pick apart moralistic hypocrisies (like victimless crime laws).

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

I follow the moral guidelines of the society I live in. "do unto others..." is a good way to sum those moral guidelines up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I follow the expression. I do like using these morals to pick apart moralistic hypocrisies (like victimless crime laws).

Then we probably have more in common than we thought, but in truth I think the same could be said for most people in the world, regardless of their beliefs.

a reply to: uncommitted

Believe it or not, I share similarities to many people on these forums. This argumentative persona I adopt is just something I do to strengthen my debate skills. If you were to meet me in real life, we probably wouldn't even HAVE a discussion about religion unless you brought it up. And even then, I'd try to worm my way out of it. I do the same thing with face to face political conversations as well.

Politics and religion, two discussions guaranteed to sour the room's mood when brought up in a social environment.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

Believe it or not, I share similarities to many people on these forums. This argumentative persona I adopt is just something I do to strengthen my debate skills. If you were to meet me in real life, we probably wouldn't even HAVE a discussion about religion unless you brought it up. And even then, I'd try to worm my way out of it. I do the same thing with face to face political conversations as well.

Politics and religion, two discussions guaranteed to sour the room's mood when brought up in a social environment.

I can't think of any occasion when I have brought up religion, aside from ATS I can't even think of when I last had what I'll call a theological discussion with anyone - probably not since school which was a long time ago. Discussions on the impact of religion such as JC & TLTDS or JW knocking on your door to attempt to convert you, maybe, but that's about it. Not that I don't think the subject is interesting, and the water to wine thing I mentioned is certainly interesting to me as to how to look at the bible in a different way, but that would assume I have picked up a bible for anything other than christenings, weddings and funerals for a long long time.

Only the atheists who want to feel superior because of their ego do that. I don't have time to argue with someone who believes in the fairytale. I respectfully disagree and leave it at that.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

Fair enough, but you call yourself a Christian...

I follow what I consider are Christian values.

I prefer the Commandments of Solon - - father of democracy.

The Ten Commandments of Solon (638 BCE - 558 BCE)
(Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, 1.60)
from an essay by Richard Carrier

1. Trust good character more than promises.

2. Do not speak falsely.

3. Do good things.

4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.

5. Learn to obey before you command.

6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.

7. Make reason your supreme commander.

8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.

9. Honor the gods.

10. Have regard for your parents.

dailydoubt.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: uncommitted

Fair enough, but you call yourself a Christian...

I follow what I consider are Christian values.

I prefer the Commandments of Solon - - father of democracy.

The Ten Commandments of Solon (638 BCE - 558 BCE)
(Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, 1.60)
from an essay by Richard Carrier

1. Trust good character more than promises.

2. Do not speak falsely.

3. Do good things.

4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.

5. Learn to obey before you command.

6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.

7. Make reason your supreme commander.

8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.

9. Honor the gods.

10. Have regard for your parents.

dailydoubt.blogspot.com...

Thank you for sharing that Annee, I wasn't aware of it and it's a very interesting set. The lack of a 'don't kill' point is interesting, but I guess it shows how all such ideas relate to when they were written. Personally I've never had a desire to covet my neighbours ass so I'm not saying the OT version is perfect.

...empty pots make the most sound...

...and being thus strident, fill the attention, by assailing the senses...

Å99

a reply to: uncommitted

That statement is technically right and wrong. Christians have the Holy Trinity at the centre of their faith. Judaism and Islam do not. I don't know any hardcore Christian fundamentalists, on the whole that seems to be an American thing, but the Christians I do know either would know that if they have an interest, or would tend to focus more on the messages of Christ in the New Testament - which kind of nullifies your point to an extent.

I don't personally know any hardcore Christians living here in Canada either...but I have travelled quite a bit and have much extended family and a few friends living in the states that allowed for personal observations.

I agree, the doctrines may deviate, but my point was this: There is no difference when ignorance is removed.

That point should never be nullified due to causing division as history has shown.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

I've seen many folks criticize Judaism over the years here. It is considered taboo because of the holocaust but it shouldn't be. My guess is because Jewish folks don't generally come on this site and argue ad nauseum for their beliefs to be considered absolute truth. They aren't protesting soldier funerals, or creating a huge lie campaign to disingenuously attack science. They aren't generally planning terrorist attacks. Sure, some do, but Christians and Mulsims definitely yell the loudest and as they say, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'.

In the past, atheists were tortured and publicly executed for going against these said religions, so IMO they have every right to criticize them. Nowadays, a large amount of Christians are much more kind and benevolent, but you still have plenty of the fringe extremists that dishonestly argue against science and believe in literal interpretations of ancient stories. The same holds true for Islam, although there is a greater percentage of fundamentalists and they still do tons of inhumane acts to non believers. Most Christians only attack with words these days. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, but I don't agree with belittling religious folk. But when they promote ignorance and lies, they absolutely should be called out and corrected.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Shadow Herder

I've seen many folks criticize Judaism over the years here. It is considered taboo because of the holocaust but it shouldn't be. My guess is because Jewish folks don't generally come on this site and argue ad nauseum for their beliefs to be considered absolute truth. They aren't protesting soldier funerals, or creating a huge lie campaign to disingenuously attack science. They aren't generally planning terrorist attacks. Sure, some do, but Christians and Mulsims definitely yell the loudest and as they say, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'.

In the past, atheists were tortured and publicly executed for going against these said religions, so IMO they have every right to criticize them. Nowadays, a large amount of Christians are much more kind and benevolent, but you still have plenty of the fringe extremists that dishonestly argue against science and believe in literal interpretations of ancient stories. The same holds true for Islam, although there is a greater percentage of fundamentalists and they still do tons of inhumane acts to non believers. Most Christians only attack with words these days. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, but I don't agree with belittling religious folk. But when they promote ignorance and lies, they absolutely should be called out and corrected.

Well said!


I would add that, none of the other religions seem to take a literal interpretation. Have you ever heard a Jew or Muslim deny evolution? Have you ever heard a Jew or Muslim insist there was a global flood 10000 years ago that killed all but one family who incested the rest of us into existance?


I know that modern Catholics and a few other branches of Christianity have embraced evolution and look at the biblical stories as analogies like esopes fables (It's the moral that matters). So I always assumed Jews and Muslims have the same take.



It's hard to believe for some one who grew up in Bible Belt America. But it's really only Bible Belt Protestants who are crazy creationists and they are the vast minority in Christianity ( thanks to ATS for enlightening me!).

a reply to: Entreri06

its not that they embrace the theory of evolution, they just dont fight it quite as loudly and ardently as other groups. they will maintain that in the end, evolution or not, god was still in charge. thats why you see some people on here insisting that creationism and evolution are compatible.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

Orthodox Jews don't see it this way, but Christian theology is Jewish theology. I learn a lot from reading the teachings of rabbis on Jewish tradition and things of that nature.