Can you help us understand what happened to our friend, Dan?

Hey! I have heard of demons before especially from one of my closest friends, which he told me about when we were young and it scared me ever since on the matter. Anyways! I just wanted to say that I really do believe in your guys' stories (This and the Beast) and I wish I could help but I couldn't know anymore than you already do and I don't have the resources for anything else at the moment. I'm here for you guys if there's ever anything you need, though I'm all the way California. I wish you guys luck and am looking forward to seeing if anyone can help you guys out, so that I can learn from it too and maybe even help out my friend's family one day as well. My friend has always been religious but I never was, though I'm very spiritual. So I'm still getting used to the whole God and Devil thing but so far I don't know any other way to face demons as opposed to a ghost so I'll keep an open mind and heart hah.

I'm sorry you've had to experience this stuff and I'm glad you know about Jesus. I know what it's like to have a friend go weird like that, but luckily for me it wasn't this bad and we were able to stay friends for the most part... I think my situation with my friend was more mental stuff, triggered by his use of xtacy, especially since he has a family history of mental illness. Just to be clear. I didn't want you to think I have experience with demonic activity, which it seems like this is what you may need help with...

The thing is, even it truly is demonic possession for sure, and you do find a willing exorcist, it will be difficult to be able to approach him about it. Cause obviously he would have to consent, unless his family agreed to a sort of intervention, which they may not be open to uless things get really bad, which will make it that much more difficult... If hes not fully possessed yet, maybe there might be another way, like sealing the entrance the demon used or something... I don't know. Good luck and I'm already praying for all of you.

a reply to: gottaknow

yeah perhaps so--granted we are obviously not the same dumb young adults that we were a few years ago

But I agree--I don't have any interest in being friends with Dan anymore, but I do wish for his well-being. Even though we have all done as much as we could to help, in the end, it comes down to if Dan takes that help or not. Not that the help we gave was perfect--but we tried our best given the limited knowledge we had at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Thank you very much for saying that--and welcome to ATS!! I hope you stay around so we can connect further, perhaps

a reply to: 3n19m470

Thank you--yeah, I don't understand why I've had to experience this weird stuff but I try to keep faith in Jesus and the truth Which helps a whole lot, of course ^_^

But it doesn't fully erase how violating this all feels, in a sense. :/

Yeah, honestly the possession or oppression or whatever is up with Dan got A WHOLE LOT WORSE after he started smoking Mad Hatter K2. He'd show no reaction most times--I don't know why he got so into it on his own, it was really worrying and another reason why I decided to cut ties (lol hooray for normal reasons amidst the abnormality of the event). I know he stopped doing it once Kelson and I snitched him out with his parents (after that whole thing where Dan was freaking out upstairs over 'his legs his legggggs!' that one time when his parents came home to that.) I'm not normally a rat, but I felt morally obliged to be one in this situation, for Dan's own sake.

He would be fine while he was stoned or whatever (which he'd do on his own--he went through like a 2g pack in a day it was ridiculously addicted-looking. But he seemed to suffer no ill effects besides increased paranoia. Which, when he wasn't acting posessed he would often be acting fearful and paranoid--so I agree that his messing around with that definitely opened the doorway for at least minor psychotic episodes of paranoia (while high or during the afterglow) which would certainly exacerbate any preexisting spiritual malady.

Thank you for reminding me!!

Yeah lol looking back on that,
Mad Hatter + demon-possessed = i can't even.

a reply to: mwsmith

It was just twitching around near the legs of the kitchen chair, bumping into it (and making the wooden legs squeak on the tile floor) I only saw it very briefly, but it was just jerking around in place, basically, barely moving forward if at all.

I don't know where it went. After I saw it, and after I saw that Kelson saw it too (that moment where Kelson and I made eye contact as we saw it was so heavy.) we looked at each other like, are you seeing whatever the hell im seeing right now?? before looking back at the creepy dirty hairy creature that was creepily derping out on the floor about eh I'd say no more than 15 feet away from where we were seated.

I know I just turned back to the asian scary movie and tried to watch the ending. I felt really jittery and shaky--and a little bit slap-happy, too, actually. Kelson and I didn't discuss it again till a while later.


You know, I think I should mention before I forget:

It's hard for me to believe now that I was able to keep my cool through most of what we saw there--well, I kept it at the time, not so much now, obviously. Gotta hand it to Jesus on that one. I was never afraid out of my wits there, but I certainly felt disturbed and unsettled quite frequently. Why we all dealt with that is a mystery. We heard so much stuff every day that it became nearly normal in a sense. But then every so often the demon would kick things up a notch--as with this derping hairy red hoodie-wearing filthy demonic Wookie that we saw in the kitchen that day.

Everything was ridiculous. In the most horrific way imaginable. Unfortunately, demons seem to have a pretty twisted sense of 'humor' (not that you can really call it humor, though, exactly).

sigh, sometimes I need to be flippant when shtf hard--sorry about that weird levity that I was inserting. I guess I don't want to sound all doom and gloom

a reply to: rukia

Thanks for the reply.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: gottaknow

yeah perhaps so--granted we are obviously not the same dumb young adults that we were a few years ago

But I agree--I don't have any interest in being friends with Dan anymore, but I do wish for his well-being. Even though we have all done as much as we could to help, in the end, it comes down to if Dan takes that help or not. Not that the help we gave was perfect--but we tried our best given the limited knowledge we had at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

Wow. So much about caring about your friend, huh? At least you're honest about that.
And then you proceed to portray him as a drug addict on the internet.
K2 is known for the exact effects you're referring to as possession.
Oh btw, nice of you to bust him out to his parents and then abandon him.
From what you've posted, I guarantee you've talked this same crap to people in your home town against him.

You guys are a piece of work. I've seen your types before. This thread isn't the least bit about helping your friend that you "love and care about" so much.

It's all about making yourselves look good and "spiritually gifted/in touch" look at me.

So meanwhile, Dan, who's suffered through several suicide attempts, addiction, depression and likely other mental health issues remains alone after being ousted as possessed by demons and abandoned by a few people he used to call friends. I don't think you'd even see what you've done if he ends up dead from suicide one day.

So continue on with your agenda to make yourself appear special to others and feel smug in your self-righteousness.
I'm sure we have a lot more posts about your enlightenment coming our way.
Just know there's a bunch of intelligent people on ATS that can see through your act.

Unlike you, I actually hope that Dan does well and doesn't suffer further from the lunacy and anguish you've brought to his life. Please stay away from him and leave him alone. You've done enough damage already.

a reply to: rukia

Hello,

BELIAL - Sometimes often rendered as Beliaal or Beliar, this name is derived from a Hebrew term most often translated as meaning "worthless" or "without value". Belial is often mentioned in the OT. This name is also found in the text of the Dead Sea Scrolls designated as 1QM, known as the "war of the sons of light and the sons of darkness. Here Belial is described as the "son of darkness". Belial is the leaders of the "sons of darkness" and all of the fallen angels under him are angels of destruction.

NOTE: Michael is the leader of the "sons of light".

In the Goetia, Belial appears as the sixty-eighth Goetic demon. He is a king amongst demons and is often said was created after Lucifer. When summoned he grants offices and brings favor to the magician. He is ranked alongside Satan, Leviathan and Lucifer.

There are many books that openly mention Belial and his dark supernatural powers.

As for the closed minded wannabe ATS psychiatrist and their standard statements of......."Seek mental help" or "You need to get on medication" goes without saying so don't take it personally .... there are a lot of hateful and spiteful people on ATS.

There are three things the Church test to see if someone is possessed:

1. Levitation
2. Super human strength
3. Speaking in foreign tongues.

If the person has these three abilities than according to the Church an exorcism is required because the person is possessed.

Hands down ........ the Church and other various religion teachings and studies has studied this phenomenon much longer and in more depth than any secular institution on this planet and of course that includes the entire fields of psychiatry and parapsychology.

From what you said in your post it does look like your friend is possessed by one or more demons. He needs to be evaluated by the Church and since the protestant church has very few exorcists you might want to take a close look at the Catholic church. (I am not Catholic) The Vatican has been teaching exorcism to the clergy for centuries but now has become in high demand as its school quickly fills each term.

BTW when the Church evaluates someone who might be possessed they always bring a third party (licensed psychiatrist and/or a parapsychologist AND a medical doctor) with them. This third party is NOT affiliated with the Church. (Has to do with lawsuits....etc.)

IMO stay away from your friend Dave and keep your other friends away as well. He is dangerous.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Just so you know, I spend much time discussing with 2 Catholic monks leading exorcisms for the whole region where I live and even they admitted that the subject isn't as clear as you make it appear to be, and that most of the Catholic exorcism tradition comes from the middle age when magicians started to mix all kind of spiritual traditions (mostly Jewish, Muslim and Hermeticism) together to create disciplines like goetia.

First they know very well speaking in tongues and increased strength are not indication of a "possession". Any hypnotist can get the same result.

Second they admit that the overwhelming majority of call for exorcism are people in need of help and not people "possessed", either simply because they are in a very dark place psychologically and need a priest to perform an exorcism as a way to help them, either because they convinced themselves they are possessed, or either they suffer from psychosis.

Exorcisms are rituals and rituals have always been used to convince the subconscious that a certain outcome will happen. Some people have their little personal superstitious rituals, some people prefer religious rituals, some people are into magic or other forms of esoteric healing, and some people rely on self-hypnosis. The mechanism and result are always the same.


They also told me that they had a great deal of paranormal experiences, but the overwhelming majority are more of the "spiritism" kind. Poltergeists, haunted houses, spirits of the dead and things like that. They said that cases where true possession might be a possibility are extremely rare, and most of the time a psychological explanation is also plausible. They explain the more a person is religious/believes in the paranormal, the more impressive the "possession" symptoms will be. Like it's all the result of self-suggestion and the stronger the belief, the stronger the suggestion.

Basically even they were very skeptical about the reality of demonic possession, on the other hand they realized that mediumnic experiences and communications with spirits are much more common and easier to record and reproduce. They did not conclude regarding the veracity of the existence of demons, but the way they talked about it strongly suggest they believe more in the possibility of all kind of spirits using mediums to manipulate and play with the living, to the point of driving them insane. They are not sure what these spirits are and what they want, but they seem to think the subject is infinitely more complex than simply "angels" and "demons" as depicted in Jewish mythology like the book of Enoch, and are conscious that most spiritual traditions worldwide acknowledge the existence of spiritual beings with their own personal motivation, usually spirits of deceased people who cannot move on because of an unresolved trauma.

a reply to: rukia

I honestly think your friend is being possesed by a jinn (demon).
You guys invited something you shouldn't have invited.

symtoms of a possesion (islamic perspective):

Physical Health

Symptoms does not respond to treatment
Infertility
Severe tightness in the chest
Occasional constant stomach-aches
Frequent vomiting
Pain in the lower part of the back
Moving pain from head, neck and shoulders
Constriction in the throat
Serious digestion problems
Constant Cramps
Always feeling weak
Always feeling dizzy
Having frequent epileptic attack
Doctors cannot find the cause of the illness
Feeling pins and needles
Moving pains in the body
Male Impotency
Inability sexual intercourse with spouse
Part of the body becomes numb
Part of the body shakes
Female frequent miscarriage
Female heavy bleeding
Female menstrual irregularities
Male premature ejaculation

psychological.

Sweating heavily when asleep
General cases of failed marriages
You hate everything about your spouse
Seeing jinn (spirit, ghost)
The feeling you hate everyone in the house
Extreme unawareness
Absentmindedness
Strange staring
Hearing voices in your head
Always having bad temper
Keep on seeing spouse in an ugly way
Serious headache with no definite cause
Heaviness on the heart
Complete loss of appetite for food
Hallucination (seeing what is not real)
Keep on having negative thoughts
Feeling the presence of somebody in the house
Always feeling suffocated and restless
Feeling depressed
Sudden obedience love for a particular person
Feeling irritable or tense
Staying in the washroom for a long time
Being afraid in the bath room
Thoughts of death or suicide attempts
Difficulty in concentrating
Heavy weight on the shoulders
Feelings of hopelessness
Extreme forgetfulness
A great deal of suspicion
Feeling something is moving in the body
Keeping one self away from family
Prefer not to have showers
Uncontrollable anger

a reply to: ElectricFeel

Seems like possession by jinn causes all the symptoms imaginable ever...

Is jinn nother word for sickness?

a reply to: gottaknow

Harsh assesment... though undoubtedly somewhat truthful, people being people.

I would say that there might be a bit of transference, there... as there is in most all interpretations of complex human psychology that resonates... and that observation resonated.

But cut them some slack as they are young, dumb and full of ... demons, heh. (and not "dumb" ... just ...er, new and unbruised)

It's complex... heh

Id suggest laying off the horror movies.

Who'd watch horror movies when stuff like that is happening in real life?

hmmm

originally posted by: rukia
To everyone, trolls included, thank you for your participation thus far. Thank you especially to those of you who have offered helpful and thoughtful input! And major props to those of you who believe us--it means a lot to me that you believe us about what happened.

>> Firstly, with regards to those of you who wondered why we did not obtain viable proof in the form of recordings or videos despite all of us having means to do so:

> He was our FRIEND. I remember one time we actually were laughing about how we should probably be taping this all and then we thought about it and were like as if we'd ever want to tell anyone about this really! It would have been so embarrassing for Dan, it would ruin the value of his house--and possibly neighborhood, and it would honestly do you no good to see it. I think I gave you all plenty of detail--I am great with recall of memories and can replay them as I like in my head. I suppose it's called having eidetic memory, but I can't remember everything--like I'll remember the page in the textbook, but it won't be the one that I need, maybe, because I didn't focus on that other one long enough or whatever.

But I think you'll understand when I say that when # like this happens to you in real life, it blows your mind. You are in the midst of simply struggling to DEAL WITH IT. You don't think about wanting to film it because YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER WANT TO SEE IT EVER AGAIN. When really messed up things happen, I think the real rule should be pics and it def did NOT happen. Because you just wait and see--if you're ever in my shoes, pictures will be literally the LAST thing on your mind.

>> Yes, moral of the story: DON'T MESS WITH THINGS THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. ESPECIALLY THINGS LIKE OUIJA BOARDS. ESPECIALLY AFTER YOU'VE JUST HAD A WEIRD ENCOUNTER WITH A SUPPOSEDLY MYTHICAL BEAST. YEAH. Definitely not one of my brightest moments, that is for sure. I tried to fix what I'd done. But it seems like if Dan won't help I can't force him. I don't know what to do. I'm no exorcist, obviously. We couldn't even finish reading the Bible in his house one time. Kelson and Kevin couldn't keep sitting up straight and they couldn't keep reading. I kept reading but it became harder and harder till eventually I could not keep reading either. And then there was Dan in his chair smiling a kind smile that did not reach his eyes.

Basically, even though we don't want to admit it, we agree wholeheartedly and know already that Dan is most certainly demon possessed. To those of you who scoff at this, you are fully in your own right to do so. However, I have no reason to lie to you. And I assure you that I'm very thorough. I have gone through every list of every symptom, read about roman catholic exorcist rites, studied extensively into demonology and have prayed a whole heck of a lot. I have cried a lot too. Because I feel so frustrated and useless and unable to save my friend. It's awful. For all of us--especially Kelson, who was friends with him for especially long.

Now that I have, though, I have come to realize some things and have come to a bit of a better understanding of the situation as a whole.

Please, keep your thoughts on this coming. Anything might help. We live in southeastern wisconsin. Near Holy Hill. I'd prefer to get catholic intervention because they do have the original correct OG literature on the matter of demons and exorcisms. But obviously that's basically impossible because Dan's not in the picture at the moment and I'm personally still a bit too chicken to jump back down the rabbit hole. I like not being in a haunted place. If I have a solution, fine, but I am NOT going back to my friend EMPTY HANDED. I go big or go home. I'm either gonna help save him or I'm going to wait till I figure out how. Immature as that may be of me.

We love Dan. We haven't given up hope that he's still in there, somewhere. And that he can and will hopefully come back somehow. Seeing him happy would make me happy, too.

wow, so you don't take recordings, video because he was your friend and it would be embarrassing for him, and possibly ruin the value of his house/neighborhood, yet your plastering this on the internet with detail, then later you say specifically where you are in Wisconsin? You've left a lot of info in your posts about Dan and what you claimed happened, and other personal info about him, suicidal, depression, addiction, which by your own admission would be embarrassing to him, and now a very narrowed down place of where he is. I'm thinking Dan is not on this site to defend himself against all this, or for that matter acknowledge it, yet it would still be embarrassing to him regardless. But if it would be embarrassing by your own admission, why would you even make this thread? You don't think people around that area will read this one specific thread of billions on the internet and "we" don't know who Dan is? Other people are reading this regardless of where we are from. If Dan wanted to come on here and post this about himself, that's a different story.

To your moral of the story- don't mess with things you don't understand part of your post----
--The title of this thread is "Can you help us understand what happened to our friend Dan?" (should be x-friend Dan imo, given you have no interest in being friends with him anymore as you stated) But it seems to me you already think you know what happened to Dan. "Basically, even though we don't want to admit it, we agree wholeheartedly and know already that Dan is most certainly demon possessed." you say. Why make this thread if you already knew/think that? That's misleading title if you already know. Are you looking for something other than demon possession? Or what to do about it? What do you really want from this thread?

You say you've gone though every list of every symptom of demon possession, read about roman catholic exorcist rites, studied extensively into demonology, but then say "if Dan wont help I wont force him". So with your extensive study on the topic, would a person, as you believe- possessed by a demon, openly accept help? Wouldn't the demon want to stay? Yet "if Dan wont help I wont force him" You say in another post too that it comes down to if Dan accepts the help or not, again, do you think someone as you believe is possessed by a demon will accept help? Or does the demon want to stay put, discouraging any form of "help"?


You say "If I have a solution, fine, but I am NOT going back to my friend EMPTY HANDED." Go back to him? You say you have no interest in being his friend anymore but do wish for his well-being. Does having no interest in being his friend anymore, yet wishing for his well being mean your are still trying to help him? I don't get this?

"We love Dan. We haven't given up hope that he's still in there, somewhere. And that he can and will hopefully come back somehow. Seeing him happy would make me happy, too." You love him yet have no interest in being his friend anymore?

I am so confused by this entire thread of yours. At first it just seemed like, idk, you wanted help, but looking more thoroughly into what you've posted, it doesn't make sense.

a reply to: C84K2

had to delete a small part of rukia's post in there, wouldn't fit, kept getting the 7500 limit

a reply to: JUhrman

This does not shock me at all. Many within various religions say the exact same thing. If you talk to a practicing exorcist like renowned world known exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth, PHD Francis MacNutt (also a priest), Adam C. Blai, M.S., Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea and Derek Prince, each one with over 30 years of experience in dealing with demons will tell you many in the clergy fear the truth and the unknown and are scared of demons.

Maybe research the men I mention above, each one is above reproach and respected men within the practice of exorcism. Since the two monks you spoke with were not, maybe you should continue to seek out an exorcist and ask to help out the next time one comes around. Get some first hand knowledge.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You are assuming way too much. These monks were trained and had decades of experience dealing with exorcism. If their only crime is to be critical and not to label any psychosis as demonic possession they are perfectly right. They never denied the influence of external forces. Just they are aware the tradition regarding "demons" is not as one dimensional as some describe it.

They were first hand knowledge and you have no idea what they witnessed.

originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You are assuming way too much. These monks were trained and had decades of experience dealing with exorcism. If their only crime is to be critical and not to label any psychosis as demonic possession they are perfectly right. They never denied the influence of external forces. Just they are aware the tradition regarding "demons" is not as one dimensional as some describe it.

They were first hand knowledge and you have no idea what they witnessed.

Neither do you.

So what are the names of these monks? This can be easily enough verified if they attended any exorcist training.

And like I said next time volunteer and help out at an exorcism.

If these monks allegedly are exorcist than they should know the main three signs of possession as taught by the Vatican and if not than both you and these two alleged monks are only trolling.