Students in PA High School dress in flannel; pin Bible verses to students lockers for Anti-Gay Day

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I don't even know, but what are you going to do to punish these kids? Ban flannel?

No. I'm very much against blanket bans.

But there's proof of this happening. Kids posted bragging pics to twitter. Teachers tore down posters. They KNOW it's happening and they know who's organizing it. There are anti-bullying punishments in the school code. Bring them in the principal's office and apply that punishment. Punish them by taking away something they value. They won't be able to punish all who participated, but they can set an example and record this on their school records.

Talk to their parents and let them know this behavior won't be tolerated.

Source

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

But but that would require the teachers to actually do their jobs. I thought we couldn't have that in this day and age of blanket enforcements and ratcheting up the slightest transgressions to the police?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yeah, I know... That's the sad part about all this. The school superintendent is even denying that there's any evidence this happened...

In a state that doesn't have anti-discrimination laws for LGBT people, this is the kind of atmosphere we see. That's why people are pushing these anti-discrimination laws. If the state had them, parents of the bullied kids could take it to the state. As it is now, the state (and school) is saying, "It's OK to bully gay kids. They don't have the same rights as the rest of us. But you CANNOT bully someone because of their religion. THAT'S against the law".

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Ya. LGBT should be a protected class of citizens. I'm not sure why that hasn't been done yet.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

...and for parents, who by all appearances share these views, to actually care??? Sounds to me like they actually may condone the kids behaviour.

Teachers can enforce the rules 'til they're blue in the face, if the parents aren't on the same page, they might as well not bother.

All they can really do is kick the little darlin's out of school. Which serves a purpose, but doesn't really solve the problem.

a reply to: seagull

But if the kids get expelled, it will be on the kids' records and at least it will show that the school doesn't support the behavior, even if the parents do. As it is, they're totally condoning it.

a reply to: seagull

There is nothing to be done there. The parents are more than free to hold whatever opinions they want about LGBT people. They can support their children having those opinions too. It's not like we can jail the parents for prodding their children to do homophobic behavior.

a reply to: Anyafaj

Where the H are the parents??? I can guarantee you that if something like this happened at my kids' high school, we all would have been loudly and proudly picketing the next morning in front of that school, I would have notified every local news agency, and every other parent I had contact info for. And the focus of our wrath would have been the school administrators who allowed this to happen. I would have considered it a valuable lesson for my children at the school of life, and used it to reinforce and re-affirm that one must not only question authority when appropriate, but to defy authority when necessary.

It would also be a valuable lesson in natural and civil rights. 1 -- No one has the right to "protest" someone else's being. Period. We all have every right to be who we are and/or choose to be -- gay or straight or in between or none of the above. My sexuality is none of anyone else's business... and no one else's sexuality is any of my business. 2 -- Public schools are for the equal benefit and treatment of all. Period. The government (and therefore schools) must protect the rights of all, including -- nay, especially!!! -- the rights of the minorities from bullies. 3 -- Separation of church and states means that publicly owned property (such as lockers) cannot convey or support a religious message... It is not just vandalism of public property, but violates that wall of separation. 4 -- It's an excellent reminder that when the founding fathers included freedom of religion, it was because they knew the evils wrought in the name of God even within their own religion.

I tip my hat to the Day of Silence. That's classy. I would not be so classy... but I can appreciate, respect and admire their dignified response.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I agree with you totally.

Expelling the little brats is about all they can do without the cooperation of parents.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, we can't. Nor can we force 'em to get over their fear of others different from them.

...and that's what this is, in a very real degree... Fear.

It is amazing how tolerance only works one way. I've read some of the articles about the baker who won't bake a cake for a gay wedding, about the photographer who take pictures of one and the caterer who won't cater one. The comments of these articles have included everything up to and including death threats. If these students are physically harassing someone then by all means take action against the people doing the harassing. As far as posters or verbal statements all I have to say is "sticks and stones".

I don't get the flannel thing..What the hell is that supposed to mean? Heh,back in the 90's in Highschool Me,and my friends that wore flannels were labeled Stoners/Rednecks..

Are those people you mention privately owned by them? If so, they're within their rights to deny service to anyone they choose.

This topic happened in a public school. For me, it's the bullying/attempted intimidation that gets my goat. I have issues with bullies.

The views? I find them reprehensible. ...the baker wouldn't be selling me donuts. ...the photographer wouldn't be taking my picture. ...the caterer wouldn't be hired for my party. They can have their views. So can I, and make sure that they don't profit from my business as a direct result.

a reply to: seagull

Right. It's a wonder why people fear homosexuals so much. What is so scary about them?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

No you're right in this case. I didn't consider that when I made my post because I was too intent on the free speech aspect. Sorry.

a reply to: seagull

All they can really do is kick the little darlin's out of school. Which serves a purpose, but doesn't really solve the problem.

If the school embraced this controversy instead of pretending like they don't know what's going on - they could turn this into something productive

A writing assignment - with rules of course - just like our T&C :-)

A debate maybe (an actual debate and not just a shouting match)

It's too late to pretend like it didn't happen. Giving kids a chance to actually say something as if they were adults (which would require them to also think) is an opportunity they shouldn't pass up. If the adults are really behind this it would be interesting to hear the sorts of things that come out of their kids mouths. If they're just parroting - it would be obvious soon enough. If they believe what they believe honestly, it would give them a chance to express that without resorting to a bullying mob mentality

Being given permission to say what they want to say in a controlled environment might open a lot of eyes - and they might just surprise themselves. I had a couple of teachers that let us unscramble our own brains just like this - without leading the witness - or doing any judging

Not saying all of it would be pretty :-)

But, at this point - it would give them all a chance to work this out in public instead of letting it fester

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't know. Why do people fear Muslims? Or Catholics? Or any number of people?

Lack of understanding, I suppose. We tend to fear, or at least look askance, at anything that doesn't conform to "what's supposed to be.".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Right. It's a wonder why people fear homosexuals so much. What is so scary about them?

I think for some sex is so often sinful. Sin = Hell

It's also a lot easier to identify gay sex as a sin for those people who prefer their sex straight up (as it were...) :-)

For so many people, homosexuality is about nothing but sex as far as that goes. There is nothing deeper, nothing that concerns them. They don't consider that it's about how people are born, that it's natural. It's not about emotion, what people feel - not about identity, science - philosophy...none of that matters is how it seems to me

ETA: I realize none of that is at all brand new thinking :-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

there was a real opportunity here... ...and they screwed it up in just about every possible way. By deliberate intent.

I wonder whose kids they were???