Can anyone name a religion that DOESNT believe in reincarnation?

originally posted by: bb23108
So another physical ascension is the basis for your argument? That is quite the stretch. You don't really believe that a physical body could ascend to the heavens, do you?

I wasn't claiming anything about Elijah.
I was explaining why the Jews of the time were speculating about Elijah.
I'm not here to talk about the nature of "ascension".
Only to discuss whether or not the Christian faith believes in reincarnation.
It does not.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Only to discuss whether or not the Christian faith believes in reincarnation.
It does not.

We know most Christians do not believe in reincarnation now. I thought we were talking about what was believed back then.

a reply to: bb23108
As long as it is limited to "what the Christian church taught, and what Christians believed in consequence".
Vague speculations by other people are not relevant to the question of what is, or is not, part of the Christian faith.

a reply to: DISRAELI

But in this quote, Jesus is speaking:

Matthew 17
[10] And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
[11] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[13] Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

a reply to: bb23108
What he means is that the prophecy about the "coming of Elijah" has been fulfilled, because someone (namely John the Baptist) came to do the work which was foretold as needing to be done.
It was the function that was repeated, rather than the literal person.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
It was the function that was repeated, rather than the literal person.

If that is what Jesus meant, why would he have said that it was Elias so definitively, rather than it was John the Baptist who was fulfilling Elias' function?

Reincarnation is definitely supported in this quote.

a reply to: bb23108
They wanted him to explain the meaning of a prophecy, and he gave the answer in the form they were best able to understand.

Im gonna have to agree with DISRAELI... Christianity does not believe in reincarnation regardless of the evidence of its existence within the bible...

It was believed by early church Fathers, but it was eventually removed and considered heresy

Why would they want you to believe you have more then one chance... that removes the power of the church

"These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians."

By Kevin Williams

In December, 1945, early Christian writings containing many secrets of the early Christian religion were found in upper Egypt, a location where many Christians fled during the Roman invasion of Jerusalem. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these manuscripts of Christian mysticism rank in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls. These writings affirmed the existence of the doctrine of reincarnation being taught among the early Jews and Christians. These Christian mystics, referred to as Christian Gnostics, were ultimately destroyed by the orthodox Church for being heretics. Their sacred writings were destroyed and hidden with the belief that they would be revealed at an appropriate time in the future. The discovery in 1945 yielded writings that included some long lost gospels, some of which were written earlier than the known gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Brian A. Bain, M.A., has this to say about the 1945 discovery:

www.near-death.com...

a reply to: DISRAELI
Many argue that the notion of reincarnation was just assumed back then, so they had no trouble figuring John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elias.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa
Christianity believes in resurrection, not reincarnation.

Really? Then what's all this about the Second Coming? Paul said Jesus was coming back within his lifetime.

P.S. We're still waiting.

a reply to: bb23108
This comes back to people imagining history to suit what they want to believe.

I've never really understood why modern believers in reincarnation are so obsessed with trying to find it in the Bible.
It's a teaching of Hindu and Buddhist religion. Not so long ago, when people decided that they wanted to believe in Buddhist teachings, they went and read books about Buddhism.
Now, for some reason, they are desperately hunting around for scraps of words which can be worked up into evidence of "Biblical reincarnation". Why? If you want to believe in Buddhist teachings, you don't need the authority of Christian scriptures. Why not just accept them on the authority of Buddhist scriptures?

originally posted by: Akragon Christianity does not believe in reincarnation regardless of the evidence of its existence within the bible...

'No question about that currently. But we were talking about the past, and what is still in the Bible.

originally posted by: Akragon
It was believed by early church Fathers, but it was eventually removed and considered heresy

Why would they want you to believe you have more then one chance... that removes the power of the church

Exactly. Thank you for your insight.

a reply to: schuyler
Yes, and what happened to Jesus is understood to be resurrection, not reincarnation.
Did you notice my explanation of the difference?
In the Christian concept of resurrection there is no "second physical body" involved. Therefore it is not reincarnation.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: bb23108
I've never really understood why modern believers in reincarnation are so obsessed with trying to find it in the Bible.

Now, for some reason, they are desperately hunting around for scraps of words which can be worked up into evidence of "Biblical reincarnation". Why?

I think for many it is more to see if reincarnation is the way things actually work, rather than just believing in it. If it is corroborated in different religions, that gives it more credence.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Probably because it was a belief back when Jesus lived before Christianity... And it was a jewish belief and still is today in some sects...

Origin believed in it as well... the fact is it was removed from Christianity because it takes power from the church and relies on the self

a reply to: Akragon
Even what Origin suggested was not "reincarnation". No "second physical body" was involved.
And it was never accepted as the official teaching of the church.
It was an attempt to vary what had been taught from the beginning.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The thread is about re incarnation ... As I and Akragon posted ... early Christians did believe in re incarnation but these teachings were suppressed and their writers branded as Heretic

a reply to: DISRAELI

It was clearly something Jesus taught regardless of what the church says about it... Like I said it was probably not even written about because it takes power from the church.....

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: bb23108
What he means is that the prophecy about the "coming of Elijah" has been fulfilled, because someone (namely John the Baptist) came to do the work which was foretold as needing to be done.
It was the function that was repeated, rather than the literal person.

Inconveniently, that's not what Jesus said. He said that John the Baptist IS Elijah!

You can't have Christianity without reincarnation, because without John the Baptist fulfilling the prophecy "I will send the Prophet Elijah", you don't a "Christ".

Early Christians believed in and taught reincarnation.

Or is it not more in conformity with reason, that every soul, for certain mysterious reasons (I speak now according to the opinion of Pythagoras, and Plato, and Empedocles, whom Celsus frequently names), is introduced into a body, and introduced according to its deserts and former actions? www.earlychristianwritings.com...
Early Christian Father Origen

Origen also asserted that we spiritually"outgrow" our bodies.

It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing. —Origen

LINK

St Gregory stated:

"...But since there is a necessity that the defilements which sin has engendered in the soul as well should be removed thence by some remedial process, the medicine which virtue supplies has, in the life that now is, been applied to the healing of such mutilations as these. If, however, the soul remains unhealed, the remedy is dispensed in the life that follows this.." – Great Catechism.
www.ccel.org...

Not only that...the doctrine of reincarnation wasn't forbidden by "The Church" until the 6th century