Losing my Religion

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: undo

I'm sorry. I hung on in there as long as I could, but once your video claimed that Caesarion was the 'rightful heir to the Roman Empire' (no, he wasn't, that post didn't exist at that time and the position of Dictator wasn't hereditary) I had to bale out because I was laughing too hard. Utter round objects.

ah that explains why octavian was given advice to kill caesarion since too many contenders for the throne was gonna be a problem. now had you said he wasn't a contender because julius never married cleo, you'd be closer to the truth.

linky.

tvblogs.nationalgeographic.com...

this is really off topic but i don't think cleo commited suicide, nor marc antony. i think they both faked their deaths, pre-planned it, and met esu (caesarion) in israel. cleo was a hebrew ptolemy in the line of king david.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: undo

I'm sorry. I hung on in there as long as I could, but once your video claimed that Caesarion was the 'rightful heir to the Roman Empire' (no, he wasn't, that post didn't exist at that time and the position of Dictator wasn't hereditary) I had to bale out because I was laughing too hard. Utter round objects.

ah that explains why octavian was given advice to kill caesarion since too many contenders for the throne was gonna be a problem. now had you said he wasn't a contender because julius never married cleo, you'd be closer to the truth.

Plus there was no throne. This is the murky period where the Roman Republic falls and the Empire starts. Octavian/Augustus had no crown and no real title other than 'Princeps' or first citizen. If he'd called himself 'king' then he probably would have been assassinated in the same way that his great uncle Julius Caesar had been, as Romans hated that title. Octavian is now seen as the first emperor of Rome, but you have to remember that all through his rule of Rome he was making it up as he went along.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

read this
tvblogs.nationalgeographic.com...

originally posted by: misskat1
I dont know how to thank everyone for their outpouring of LOVE that I have received from my friends here. I didnt expect such a huge response. I think this reevaluation of Religion, in light of historic facts, is happening to a vast amount of people.

I truly thank the Christians who have courageously stood up for their faith, even though it was not popular for them to do so. Yes, I have tried Jesus, and although I admire your commitment to your faith, I can not ignore the Historical facts that I have been forced to examine. I will not judge you one way or the other, as I realize that "Faith" itself covers a multitude of errors.

I also, am very grateful for the links and information that has been shared with me. I will be sorting through it, and learning what I need to help me on this journey.

So, again, thank you everyone for taking the time to reach out to me. One thing I do realize, there isnt one true pathway. I think with our diversity of belief systems, that we are all where we are meant to be.

Here is the classical fail we see on ATS often. You blow up religion, which is ok with me to an extent, but then start talking about other pathways as if there is some meat there among the bones.

And your premise from opening pages is then blown sky high with your last statement here which becomes a dead giveaway as to what you are really up to. Diversity is then the saving grace of belief systems to you after really reserving your blasting's for Christianity only. Just another former christian selling the diversity trip.....yea right. Just another guy blasting Christianity and pointing to the smorgasbord of "belief systems" as a better source....after blasting "religion" or really Christianity as a source of lies ect ect.

And as is very predictable you cherry pick "love" out of the whole box of this and thats, lose ends ect after basically running the whole thing into the ground. Seen this a thousand times.

Anyway I don't buy anything you say in this thread. You don't know enough about it really. You blast religion and then see another sort of umbrella policy.

a reply to: Ghost147

Then I sincerely apologize for my accusations. From the view that I read it from it sounded as if you believed -personally- that the old view of things was the correct view, and now everything is changing.

NP. We`re cool man.

a reply to: donktheclown

thanks : ) im sure i will suppose we all have to experience a loss to get the truth we will all know soon enough god bless.

a reply to: Logarock

Most of the replies I have received from the Christians, is that I dont have enough knowledge or was never a true believer to begin with.
Im very sorry that you have viewed my crisis of conscience to be an attack on your personal belief systems. Or to be setting up an argument for or against, Love is enough. The other views from members, have provided a multitude of alternative pathways. Most, even the Atheist agree on Love and Compassion. "The greatest of these is Love". Love and compassion are the only religious teachings that we all agree on, so it is what I shall hang onto, until the "truth" is revealed to me.
Even unpopular people like Judas was ordained for a purpose, so yes, I do think everyone is where they should be, for good or bad. And after reading his side of the story, I wouldnt mind if I have a similar roll to play. Without him there would be no story.
I was fascinated by the Gospel of Judas. It isnt in the cannon of biblical scripture, so it may not be allowed on your reading list. But, for me, I can not ignore that the history, archaeology, ancient books and manuscripts do not validate all the beliefs in the Christian Church. And yes, I do think Christianity is built on lies. I can not speak to the crisis people are facing in other religious belief systems.
I havent lost my faith in a higher power, and He might prove in the end, to be a supreme God of the Universe, that is watching every move we make, keeping a tally of all the hurtful things we have done to each other, and waiting to hold us accountable for it. I guess we will all know soon enough. But, until I have worked out my own salvation, then I will hang onto the only truth I do believe in right now, and that is to love our neighbor as ourselves. So, if in the end I loose my faith, as well as my Religion, I will still cling to Love and Compassion.

a reply to: Logarock

So you're accusing her of being a liar? Satan is called the accuser you know. Seems as though you're mimicking him instead of the one you're supposed to: Jesus.

a reply to: misskat1

I find your understanding of Judas very interesting. When I was a child, I lived in the country. The nearest town was about 30 miles away and there were only a few families within walking distance, but there were two churches across a tiny road from each other. My father was Baptist, but his family had given a small plot of land to the Catholic church. It was a tiny church and a small graveyard. I could tell you about some of the tricks we would play on people from that graveyard, but that is for another time. My mother was Catholic and my grandfather had no preference. He went wherever the people looked friendly and would sometimes go to more than one church on a Sunday, usually for the music and food.

That left us kids. Eight of us at the time, there are ten of us all together. Mom was a devout Catholic, that meant every Sunday, we were racing down the wooded path, to make 6:00am mass. Since we where not allowed to do any chores on Sunday, we had a lot of free time. So, we had no problem going with our father to the Baptist Church, it meant a car ride, friends and food. If my grandfather had a mind, he grabbed us and would take us to the 7th Day Adventist Church across from the Catholic Church. So it was not uncommon for us children to spend all of Sunday at 2 or 3 churches.

I remember one Sunday around Easter. Lots of festivities all around. It seemed that all the sermons were about Judas. They all portrayed him as a demon. Even my childish mind saw something not quite right about their persecution of Judas. I saw a person so pained for an action he was destined to make for the fulfillment of scripture, that he could not even live with himself.

I remember asking if Judas had disobeyed and not kissed Jesus on his cheek, would Jesus have died on the cross. I don't remember anyone giving me a satisfactory answer, until I got home and asked my mother. She said, "probably not". She said, " Life is full of uncertainties. " "We never know for sure sometimes, whether the things we do are good or bad, that is why you are given the ten commandments, to do under to others as you would have then do unto you." I asked her if maybe Judas was really a hero, because he did what God wanted him to do, even though it hurt him so bad to do it? She said, "It is possible, but we only have this story that told us what happened, so you have to go with what you believe." I remember saying I thought he was a hero. She said, "Good for you".

So I very much see your point. I read his gospel a very long time ago. I was in the early, early stages of my quest for understanding at the time. I think I will read it again. Thanks.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I love your story! And I think if there is a "true" roll that the Churches were designed for, it was for the fellowship with other friendly people and the Food!! I do miss the social interaction at Church. ATS isnt exactly the same thing, but it is great to meet other like minded people.

a reply to: misskat1

It's good to have love and compassion. But you claim you are "losing religion". Therefore, this thread is not at all about the love and compassion aspect of God, but rather, about your disagreement with knowledge. Therefore, your idea of accurate knowledge is the real point of this thread.

When someone deduces what is quite obvious, that you do not have enough or the proper knowledge, that is not a defense of their own beliefs. It is an observation for you as to a proper evaluation of your level of understanding.

It is great that you keep love and compassion. It is indeed pointless to have proper knowledge if you don't have love. But I am also able to see that you don't have the same love that you claim to have. You think you are freeing yourself, and in a way you are: you're removing the barrier from the edge of the cliff. That's freedom right there.

Love and compassion can also mean pointing out to someone that they're doing something that will ultimately be bad for them. Though it seems quite obvious also to point out that you will always do what you want.

This is not to stop you from your research. By no means at all. If you keep researching, you will come to understand what has already been said to you. I hope you research vigorously, for the time it takes to get full circle back to the point of realizing that all of that other searching was merely to equip to be able to share with others stuck in the false knowledge, if you take too much time or you lose your way too deep into the wrong place, you might not come back. Maintain that open mind and don't close it for the purpose of anything that provides a fantasy of control over your life.

I hope you will accept what I'm saying as love and compassion and nothing else.

Thanks again.

- T

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Thank you for your sincere reply. I take it as nothing less than someone lovingly throwing a life preserver for me. And your right, my story isnt written yet, and who knows, my research might lead me right back to belief in Jesus. But, for now, I have to peel back the onion, for myself. No man can really teach you, its the Holy Spirit that has to lead you and guide you into all truth. The way is broad, and it seems to me accepting the Teachings of any man is taking the easy way out. Im not accusing you of this, so you dont need to defend yourself. Im just saying, I see so many who have accepted the teachings of others, parroting what they have heard, without making it their own.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Im curious, do you think there is one true religion? If so, which one do you think it is and Why?

Im not trying to bait an argument.

a reply to: misskat1

Jesus.

He is the one who created us.

Religion is a word whose origin in academic circles is debated. I took Latin myself and I do not see why there is all the fuss.

It seems quite obvious to me that the word Religion is made up of "re-" meaning "again" and "legere" meaning "to connect". There is a latin word "ligo" meaning "connection". The "connection" is obvious to me.

Religion is about reconnecting with the Creator. That's the entire point. Seems obvious, though, doesn't it?

All things were made by and through Jesus. Therefore, He's the one. He is the origin. He is the religion.

First and foremost, without any mention of doctrines at all, belief in Him is absolutely necessary.

Of course, the name "Jesus" is different in every language, so what does that mean for people? It is in His name indeed that we are all saved. So what of others who do not hear His name as we do? Is being good enough?

WE share His name so that people can know by what name they are ALREADY JUSTIFIED. He died 2 thousand years ago. Everyone was clean ever since then.

It would do you well to not consider Paul an apostle of Satan, for it is through the words given to him by the Holy Spirit that you will find the most obvious statement in your favor: "Let everyone be convinced in their own minds." That is concerning doctrines. If you spend the rest of your life trying to obey law, that means you're wasting a lot of time hindering your steps instead of freeing them. The law of Christ is the law of love, as you well know. Yet the knowledge that you shared as if it was a revelation of some kind is a knowledge that is decidedly designed to hinder the freedom in Christ. IT makes no sense.

Those who believe in the Creator take on the form of the Creator. Yes, you are still in your flesh, but it is already dead. It lives because of the Spirit within it. It does not live or die because of you or because of what you do to it, because it was born dead. IF the Spirit were to leave your body, it would be like any other inanimate object. But because of the Spirit within it, the life it has, it has movements and desires. We already know that the movements and desires the flesh makes are to the benefit of the flesh and not to the benefit of the Spirit. Therefore are our actions already crucified to the flesh.

Therefore, it is not a war with the flesh. Rather, it is a war of the mind. There are many spirits. These are the enemy. Other people are not. But the spirits within the enemies, when those spirits leave, the flesh is left also dead as it already is. Therefore, the nature of the spirit within you when you die determines whether the spirit is worthy. If it is the Holy Spirit, then obviously that spirit is worthy. If it is not, then obviously it is not worthy.

Now we do as the Spirit does. When we are not doing as the Spirit does, then we are idle for the flesh. But because the flesh is dead, it does not decide on its own. It simply wants the same way that a towel immersed in water wants to absorb the water.

So when you do or say things that are not becoming of God, that is the flesh. IF we are working in the Spirit, then that is not happening. But if we are not working in the Spirit, dead works happen.

All of this is logic. This is not a definition of sin and righteousness. IT's simply truth.

Sin is to deny your Creator in favor of the fantasy world people have made for themselves because of the boredom and lust in their lives. Those with the Holy Spirit can easily slip and fall and get back up. But the same action in those without the Spirit will cause them to think that they are flying high and moving on to the next stage in their life.

What else can I say?

Dispute over doctrines is foolishness. IF a people want to believe that lighting a candle for prayer is a better way, let them do it. IF they want to believe that Friday evening to Saturday evening is the Holy Sabbath, then let them. IF they want to believe that December 25th is Jesus' birthday, let them: For a child is born into Jesus every December 25th and He is God. Why should He worry about such a petty thing? But if people want to know the whole truth, let them. What does it have to do with living in the Spirit? What does it have to do with sharing the love of Jesus Christ?

There are rights and there are wrongs. Who cares if gay people get married. What does that have to do with me? Does God love homosexuality? No. Does God love divorce? No. Does God love anything that is unnatural or hateful? No. Do people do all of the above? Absolutely. For these things to take place in the fellowship of Christians is wrong however. Christians are supposed to encourage each other to focus on living in the Spirit and not getting lost into making a lifestyle out of that which is in the flesh. Mistakes happen. Lifestyles are accepted.

But the Christian fellowship does not seem to be very public these days in regards to true Christians. The whole world only sees in numbers and in the flesh. The world has no idea what is going on anywhere. It's like an eyeball trying to look at itself in the mirror. If the eye turns to the left, the mirror eye turns to the right, and the eye is hardly looking at the eye, but they both look somewhere else. The eye can never see the eye except for looking directly at itself. And even then, the eye is only absorbed into the black hole of the mind of its host - for the life is clearly not in the flesh. In this same way the world is completely ignorant.

I do not judge a Christian by what they claim, by what they wear, by what doctrines they hold, by any such thing like that. I have judged many people to be Christian when they CLAIM THEY WERE NOT because I know the Spirit. When I see the Spirit, I know that God is working. IT doesn't matter what we think or do not think. It matters what we know. And I have met many that say they are Christians and yet they are not.

It is God that reveals, not us.

I will say, however, like I mentioned in another thread: If you see people calling themselves Christians and yet they are trying to legislate their conscience onto you, Bingo. Not Christian - at least, not yet, if they will be. No true believer in Jesus Christ is so afraid that they think that they have to ask the State to force their conscience onto other people so that they themselves are comfortable. The Kingdom of Jesus Christ is not the Kingdom of this world at all. Only those without faith to realize that the Kingdom is already here are the ones who so desperately need to convert the government of this world into their physical idol or representation of that thing which He already gave us.

He does that in His own time because He is in charge.

We're here for the ride.

I can think of other things I have missed and maybe some things I went too far into detail. At any rate, this seems like enough for now. What do you say friend?

Thanks!

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Nice post.

For those who believe.

dp

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Wow, Im very glad I asked. I agree with so much of what you said. And I very much appreciate the time you have taken to share your heart with me. I have a lot of points to ponder. JFYI, your post was very nicely worded, and very Christian. Others can learn a lesson on how to present their faith in a non arrogant, self righteous, haughty way from your post, I hope it is read by many.
Thanks

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
There are rights and there are wrongs. Who cares if gay people get married. What does that have to do with me? Does God love homosexuality? No. Does God love divorce? No. Does God love anything that is unnatural or hateful? No. Do people do all of the above? Absolutely. For these things to take place in the fellowship of Christians is wrong however. Christians are supposed to encourage each other to focus on living in the Spirit and not getting lost into making a lifestyle out of that which is in the flesh. Mistakes happen. Lifestyles are accepted.

Good thing that you know what/who God loves and what/who he does not love/accepts.

In short, god does not like unnatural, two man or women loving each other is wrong...

Not very nice post IMHO, sorry...

If your premise is that someone is against you believing what you like, be it this hateful God who hates his creation, or be in Pink Unicorn, I really don't care, nor I care what god do you pray, if you pray to any, where I get annoyed when this view people such as you try to post as norm, like moral standards unto others, because you have close relationship to God and he told you who/what he loves... And some even try to get this nonsense into education...

a reply to: SuperFrog

If you think you know what God loves and doesn't love, then go with that.
I'm not trying to pass this off as some kind of regulatory education in the world. The world is responsible for getting you to pay bills. It's not responsible for saving your soul and body. I'm not interested in teaching you how to pay the bills.

If you pay close enough attention to nature, you don't need God to tell you directly that homosexual relations are unnatural. There is no offspring. Nothing is produced. There is no fruit. Whether you believe in God or nature, there is nothing gained except for the temporary pleasure of the flesh.

If that's what someone wants, then that's what they want. What can I say?

When someone loves God instead of the world, they are willing to not focus on the lifestyle, but rather on loving other people.

If you are spending your time loving other people, you're not worried about coming out of the closet. You're not worried about the next drop of alcohol. You're not worried about the next injection of heroin. You're not worried about the next president. You're not worried about any of that garbage.

Do you partake in it sometimes? Yeah, maybe, because you're either selfish or you think you have good intentions. Do you make a whole lifestyle out of it in rebellion to all that is good regardless of the damage that might be inflicted upon your brothers and sisters in this world? No.

I wonder how it is that you didn't see already what I was saying. I'm not condemning works of the flesh because they have already been destroyed - 2000 years ago.

I'm condemning the lack of willingness to have a personal connection with the Creator. Then and only then can you actually discern what is good and right for YOU.

Whatever the world chooses to do in judgment of you from there is what the world does. If you want favor with the Lord, then worrying about how the world judges you is the last thing you should have on your mind.

I get your frustration, but I think you haven't spent enough time considering without bias to really understand what it is that you actually want.