Up to 700 migrants feared drowned after boat capsizes in the Mediterranean

Libya got its fine dose of freedom and democracy and business is booming. They're better off today than they were with Gaddafi before he got sodomised with a stick and then shot dead by the Western backed freedom fighters.

Libya is responsible for controlling its borders, not us.

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: WarminIndy

I see those people as my closest relatives. They are what I am. I could be at their place. My existence is just an accident. I could be everybody else, even you.

Your position here is very unintelligible. This is not about the Roma, nor about USA. This is about people dying. It does not make any sense to throw bad cards, but rather about solutions. Put your anger aside.

There is no hope, if everybody reacts with anger.

Yes, it is about the Roma and every group of people who have suffered bigotry and discrimination no matter where they are.

If you are the voice of Buddhism, I don't want any part of it, because you seem to only care about some people, as long as they don't steal from you.

OK, walk a mile in their shoes. You be them for a while. They are what you are...then be them for once. Give up your first class citizenship and go down to live with them, you be hungry like their children.

If you care so much about saying you are them, give up your first class citizenship and go to the Ivory Coast and be a slave.

You aren't them, they aren't you. And here it is a Christian telling you that you need to open your eyes and see the suffering around you and do something like loving them enough to actually do something, instead of sitting back on your Buddhist laurels pretending that their suffering is yours, when it is not.

Why aren't you going down there to the sea side to give comfort and hope to the families of the victims? Would your Siddharta ever gone to see the tragedy of death and simply put his arms around them and give them comfort?



Is this the truth about Europe? Look down upon your fellow man? Don't see the beggars at your feet?

Oh yes, a tragedy of 700 people dying, but the millions starving..don't look them in the eye. These 700 people dying, the cause is the uncaring, the subjugation, the second class citizenry, the hatred, the bigotry, the eventual reaping of what was sown.

People think I am being harsh, I am. I hate the continual blaming of everyone else, when holding us to changing the world, while the Europeans sit back on their own lies and propaganda and hiding their heads in the sand.

I hate to say it, but it is going to get worse. Eventually you will have to look them in the eye, as equals.

a reply to: Boeing777

Libya got its fine dose of freedom and democracy and business is booming.

The only way Libya is booming is with the sound of explosions , I think you'll find Libya is in a state of civil war , it is also being infiltrated by IS , things are very much worse there than they were under Gaddafi.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

The idea that everyone in a country is to blame for the state of their country is asinine it's unreal. I guess all Americans are to blame for the actions of your government too, right? After all, you want to claim that these people are at fault, surely you are also to blame for the state of your own country?

Uhm, well.. Yeah, of course people are responsible collectively for what's going on in their country. It's certainly not a vacuum of course and there's a wide confluence of influences, but if the citizens aren't responsible, who is?

I think the idea that someone else would be mainly responsible for what's going on in any given country is just as asinine.

Let's compare China and Africa. Which country is more prosperous and why? The West couldn't bully China around like they do Africa, not if they tried, and they certainly did try that during the 19th century. The empress dowager seemed to have put a stop to any such attempts of too overt a nature. The British got Hong Kong but the mainland wasn't sliced and diced by the Eight-Nation Alliance. Africa could never have organized such a resistance and never could have extricated themselves out of poverty like the Chinese did.

You speak of the West raping the resources of Africa but there has also been a non stop stream of money mainly from the West, not only from governments but the people too. They could have just as easily burned it all for all the good it has done.

You think the West wouldn't be prosperous without the rest of the World? We could have been isolationist ever since the industrial revolution without sharing with the rest of the World and I bet you we'd still have TV's and cars and we'd still be creating wealth. Some of you critics also seem to completely neglect the fact that business is done and people are being paid even if it is only a pittance. We don't get oil completely free you know, and on that subject. How long do you think Iraq or Saudi Arabia could last as competitive modern states if they had no oil or foreign workers and corporations supplying equipment and know how?

Don't forget that excepting China and a few other Far East Asian countries much of the rest of the World would have still been tribal or mediand indeed in a sense some regions still are) and just as poor if not for the West. I don't include Far East Asians because some of them has done so well in the modern World they have completely outdone the West at it's "own game". And why is that? Because they're incredibly ambitious, intelligent and hard working.

Meanwhile in Africa, the West has been "artificially" inflating the populations of the countries by sending vast amounts of food. Food that the Africans themselves haven't been able to produce. So we've got a choice here, we either leave them to their own devices and let them starve in millions, tens of millions if not more. Or we keep inflating their populations, but we're not gonna be bringing them out of poverty, they will be bringing more African children straight into poverty.

Population of Africa in 1900: 133 million people.

Population of Africa in 1990: 634 million people.

Projected population of Africa in 2025: 1,365 billion people.

That's more than a doubling in population in only 35 years. You think they'll adjust and be able to take care of themselves in the future with such an exponential population growth? HA! No.. what probably will end up happening is that tens of millions of people will probably die, if not more. The West is already dying, ideologically and culturally it is the weak dying man of the world. The future will be drastic, that much is sure. A dying Europe and America, an ascendant China and a forever impoverished Africa that will continue to consume ever more resources without being able to transcend the negative feedback cycle they're stuck in. A macrocosm of the ghetto enclaves of Europe and the US.

Yeah, this is some serious fear mongering and my analysis is just as fallible as the next guy's. But the future will of utmost necessity be quite drastic. Are you ready for that? Because this disaster is a mathematical certainty.

Let's see how long the West can keep up with this arrangement before Africans start dying as flies in ever greater numbers as their population explodes.



See a potential problem here? Will you social justice warriors take care of these Africans for us? Maybe y'all can move there so the rest of us don't have to be dragged down to a Third World sh*thole with you because of your naive ideals. I'm not ready to sacrifice my people and my culture on the altar of multiculturalism just so you guys can look cool, hip and empathic in front of your hipster friends.



4 billion impoverished Africans. Yeah that'll work out great. Especially if the Muslims and the Christians of Africa get into a serious war with each other.

Eh, maybe robots will save us? Better hope so.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

Yes, I said we want our money back because apparently it is doing no good.

Europe can take care of them financially.

They are acting like we are unsympathetic to what happened, no, we are just tired of pumping our money, depriving our own citizens of health care and proper food, while they take our money and do nothing with it but buy more weapons to smuggle into Europe, just so the Europeans can go on holiday to Majorca or the Maldives and hide their heads in the sand, just so long as no one bothers them while they are getting high.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You act like I condone the historical behaviour of Europe, I do not. And I realize who controls Europe, and who controls the US. The US is just another project, the child of Europe. You Americans speak of sovereignty and freedom but your presidents are European royalty. How's that freedom? You're here on ATS, you know who these people are.

I don't take sides in these petty jingoistic feuds because the truth is that both the populations of Europe and America is woefully ignorant and apathetic. The people have next to no say in what goes on. The rulers will get what they want, they'll push an emotional button and people will react like clockwork. They really are masters at what they do, the methods have been perfected for thousands of years.

Humanity is the butt of the embarrassing joke that is history.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: WarminIndy

You act like I condone the historical behaviour of Europe, I do not. And I realize who controls Europe, and who controls the US. The US is just another project, the child of Europe. You Americans speak of sovereignty and freedom but your presidents are European royalty. How's that freedom? You're here on ATS, you know who these people are.

I don't take sides in these petty jingoistic feuds because the truth is that both the populations of Europe and America is woefully ignorant and apathetic. The people have next to no say in what goes on. The rulers will get what they want, they'll push an emotional button and people will react like clockwork. They really are masters at what they do, the methods have been perfected for thousands of years.

Humanity is the butt of the embarrassing joke that is history.

No, I don't think you condone it in any way.

And as far as all our presidents being of royal blood, nope, not hardly likely. Those genealogies were made up, just so people would think they were.

I am related to Lyndon Johnson, I know his real genealogy. I can tell you, no royalty on that side but sure enough slave owners.

You bought into a lie by unscrupulous genealogists of the past who manufactured genealogies just to placate the wealthy people who were paying big bucks, so then later people saw these genealogies and believed them.

And if the were descended of royalty, like I know that I am, from King James and his mistress Lady Margery Erskine, it is too far back to even matter, because the truth is the landed gentry here was not the wealthy land owners in England, that's why they came here to make fortunes. But the truth is also that the landed gentry in Virginia and the Carolinas, their descendents lost everything in the Civil War.

Some of the most poor, redneck hillbillies here came from royalty. It didn't do any blasted good. So these presidents coming from royalty, doesn't really matter. That is a huge mythology about bloodlines and presidents. But how many other ancestors are most of them going to have after 400 years of being in this country?

I am descended from royalty, should I be viewed as suspicious?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Trust me. I know about the Roma, they've been travelling to my country in large numbers entirely for the express purpose of begging. I'm not kidding when I say that every store in my country now has gypsy outside of it panhandling.

Yeah, they're a real credit to their people and their collective self worth. They are quite capable of working and they would have wonderful opportunities if they applied themselves but they choose to panhandle for criminal gangs.

Super ideal situation right? I mean a whole culture that unashamedly practices begging and thievery as a way of life. Yes, we should just allow all of them into our countries and do not dare mention anything pejorative about the culture even though it is beyond absurd to cater to such a degree to a people that only enters the country JUST to beg.

It really is beyond belief the absurdities we're expected to have to deal with and accept because of the sickness of cultural Marxism.

We're supposed to think that it is not at all absurd and completely insane that all of a sudden over the space of a few months there's now a pandhandling gypsy outside of every grocery store in the country. I haven't been to a single store without a beggar for quite a while now.
I'll tell you, only in the sickest of countries would such an occurrence be seen as normal and acceptable without major complaints. Wanna complain? Prepare to get attacked by the media and shamed and ostracised by a brainwashed community of conformist closet totalitarians.

Maybe Romania should take care of their own. Apart from the extant Roma citizens that have already been here for a long time I don't really see what they have anything here to do.

a reply to: WarminIndy

What you fail to appreciate is the difference between you and them, while you are RELATED to the royal bloodlines they ARE the royal bloodlines. It's a question of concentration, and no, it is not a myth. These people are beyond anal when it comes to documenting their bloodlines. It is all very documented, and really, given their stature and fame it wouldn't really be all that easy to just manufacture these links.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Plenty of researchers have gone into detail documenting these links.

I also don't imagine you rubbing shoulders with European royalty and World leaders, these people do. In terms of a New World Order these guys are in it as deep as anyone. Or do you really imagine the Bush family to be good ol' patriots, real down to earth cowboys?

Anyway, I think this subject might be a little bit too tangential.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: gortex

I really hate the nationalism and tribalism that leads to people being more concerned with "immigration" than they are with the deaths of so many innocent people.

Nothing makes me more angry than hearing someone ranting about immigration while completely ignoring the causes. In the UK we see a hell of a lot of such ignorance from the right wing, groups like UKIP, people more interested in condemning people and treating them like criminals rather than what they are - victims of their own countries and people just looking for a better life for themselves and their children.

If we lived in such s**t countries with mob violence, corrupt leaders, constant war, famine, drought, underdevelopment and mass poverty, we would all be trying to get ourselves and our kids to a better life somewhere else too! The only thing that seems to make it acceptable to ignore this obvious fact is race and nationality.

Instead of ranting about all those "evil immigrants coming over here and stealing our jobs!" we should be confronting the reasons why they need to flee their own country to start with.

If they had a decent existence, a decent life, security, safety, prospects, they would not need to be fleeing their own country to begin with. If we spent half as much money on development for these countries as we do on trying to stop people from leaving their lands maybe we would see an improvement?

What we need to be doing is focusing on the reasons for them leaving. Most of the time it's the threat of death and economic problems, and the way to resolve that is through regime change. We need to be supporting democratically minded leaders, people who have a genuine goal to improve the lives of their people, not self-serving dictators who are only in their job because they want to rape and pillage their own people and live a life of luxury while their populations starve.

This is only going to get worse as more people in these countries get access to the Internet and see how well billions of other people live. Internet access is growing across these countries, and this means more and more people will want to (rightly) give their kids the best opportunities in life. If they can't get that security and opportunity at home they will risk their lives to come to our countries in search of what they've seen.

We have to make economic development for these countries an absolute priority.

another bleeding heart liberal...

No...These people need to stay in their own countries and force their governments into change...Just as brave Americans did those hundreds of years ago...

Their immigration success will be short lived as soon as they drag our country and our laws down to the level they left behind...

a reply to: gortexLet's not forget most all of them are muzlims...Just recently those same muzlims threw all the Christians overboard on another boat and they drowned...They may have done the same thing on this boat, before it sank...I'm a little light on sympathy...

a reply to: Iscool

Let's not forget most all of them are muzlims...Just recently those same muzlims threw all the Christians overboard on another boat and they drowned

I'm sure the people that drowned didn't have anything to do with the other incident , people have been arrested for that.
As for them being Muslims , I guess it's OK they drowned then eh , Muslims are bad right ?

They may have done the same thing on this boat, before it sank...I'm a little light on sympathy...

And then they may not , just because some people do bad things does that mean all are tarred with the same brush ?

The Xenophobia displayed in this thread really is quite disturbing .... Keep on denying Ignorance guys.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Oh get off it. I will agree it's a travesty that these lives were lost. But Western countries have already spilled their blood securing the future of their nations either through civil wars, uprisings, world wars. If these people who risk their lives on shady boats to try to make it to another country to leech their hard work would stay in their own home country and work on fighting the corruption that they're running from their children and children's children might have a home they don't have to run from.

It's unfair for every Europe country to give up what they built in order to save a minority of people. Because lets face it, immigration is like putting a band-aid on an open fracture. It might look better, and hey, even make you feel better. But in the long run, it's not going to set the bone and make everything OK.

Mass immigration was never the answer, Europe is waking up to this now on two fronts: Not only is this massive immigration putting a serious strain on the countries ability to provide not only for the immigrants, but people as well. They're also seeing a noticeably shift in culture. What made that country individual (it's culture and heritage) is falling away, like a river eroding sandy riverbanks.

If we're going to save anyone, immigration needs to stop. We need (where we can) to build schools. Education is key. Infrastructure, police and a method to investigate and prosecute government corruption. An insight committee compromised of that nations and third party nations to see what can and needs to be done to help the country grow.

I'm all about helping the masses, not just a lucky few.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: gortex

Look... they have to realize that illegally trying to get into Europe isn't the way to go. I don't feel anything for those who died in this incident... why should I?

They shouldn't be doing it and they shouldn't be putting their childrens live's at risk by doing so.

I have read many reports of boats sinking for quite a while now and while at first I was really interested in this, I have since got used to it happening quite frequently and really as I've said already, they should not be doing it.

Why don't they go to 'Eygpt' or 'Morocco'? Its a lot closer and less risky!

I actually agree with what 'Kate Hopkins' said the other day on the issue. (For the most part anyway).

I have no Sympathy anymore for them and we don't want anymore.

You're a pleasant person aren't you?
Let me guess, you are a catholic? if you cant understand that thinks are so bad in their own country that they take these risks willingly..then i feel sorry for you

a reply to: gortex

Sadly, this is nothing new. ATS is full to the brim with xenophobic, homophobic, racists.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

No. You are wrong!

I don't belong to any Religion.

I have 'Free' Will and prefer to have my own 'Spiritualism' and beliefs. I prefer to have a mind of my own.

yes... as I said before and i'll repeat for the 3rd time 'there are places coser to Libya where there is a ot less risk and no wars going on so why don't they go there'??

Yes, its sad children had to die but its nobodies fault except their parents for putting them on these boats!

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: 3danimator2014

No. You are wrong!

I don't belong to any Religion.

I have 'Free' Will and prefer to have my own 'Spiritualism' and beliefs. I prefer to have a mind of my own.

yes... as I said before and i'll repeat for the 3rd time 'there are places coser to Libya where there is a ot less risk and no wars going on so why don't they go there'??

Yes, its sad children had to die but its nobodies fault except their parents for putting them on these boats!

The Christian thing was a joke. Also, the reason they dont go there is that life will not be much better in Morocco. And where else shall they flee to? Kenya? Ethiopia? Somalia?

Oh wait, i know, i know! Liberia, they can get jobs on the Ebola front line.

Brown people, who needs them eh? They are all sub human and have no place in our streets. Amiright? (thats sarcasm directed at Mr Empathy - Truthxls...)

originally posted by: 2Spooky4Me
It's unfair for every Europe country to give up what they built in order to save a minority of people. Because lets face it, immigration is like putting a band-aid on an open fracture. It might look better, and hey, even make you feel better. But in the long run, it's not going to set the bone and make everything OK.

Very true.

originally posted by: 2Spooky4Me
a reply to: Rocker2013

Oh get off it. I will agree it's a travesty that these lives were lost. But Western countries have already spilled their blood securing the future of their nations either through civil wars, uprisings, world wars. If these people who risk their lives on shady boats to try to make it to another country to leech their hard work would stay in their own home country and work on fighting the corruption that they're running from their children and children's children might have a home they don't have to run from.

It's unfair for every Europe country to give up what they built in order to save a minority of people. Because lets face it, immigration is like putting a band-aid on an open fracture. It might look better, and hey, even make you feel better. But in the long run, it's not going to set the bone and make everything OK.

Mass immigration was never the answer, Europe is waking up to this now on two fronts: Not only is this massive immigration putting a serious strain on the countries ability to provide not only for the immigrants, but people as well. They're also seeing a noticeably shift in culture. What made that country individual (it's culture and heritage) is falling away, like a river eroding sandy riverbanks.

If we're going to save anyone, immigration needs to stop. We need (where we can) to build schools. Education is key. Infrastructure, police and a method to investigate and prosecute government corruption. An insight committee compromised of that nations and third party nations to see what can and needs to be done to help the country grow.

I'm all about helping the masses, not just a lucky few.

And Europe is just now finding this out?

From what countries are the most immigrants from? Those of French colonies tend to go to France, those from Spanish colonies tend to go to Spain and those from British colonies tend to go to England.

The rest of the smaller or less economically endowed countries of Europe are straining because they don't have the infrastructure to support those colonists who are invading. It is in reverse, now. See, they can't be illegal immigrants if they are in territories of a particular country, the governments just made them citizens. They also can't be illegal if they are going into countries of the European Union, because they are citizens of one European Union nation.

Look at Kenya, it was a British colony. What is the majority religion of Kenya? Muslim. So a bunch of Muslims decide to go to the country they are legally allowed to, take with them their language and religion (after all, that's what the British did to them), and now you have a problem, not only with Kenyans but Nigerians, Somalians, Ethiopians and various other African countries.

Then you have people who say that others are xenophobic and racist, to which I must ask them, are you willing to give up your comforts in support of them?

This is what happens, you reap what you sow, the European Union countries are facing a crisis, because they won't get themselves out of countries they don't need to be in. You've exploited them long enough.

There were three Opium Wars, but how long did it take for Hong Kong to go back to China? Did the British control of Hong Kong make it easier for the Chinese?

See, the problem is this, when your country men go to those other countries and force their women to have sex with them, and make babies over there and exploit their resources, you can't really complain when the tables are turned.

And oh my, how the tables have turned.

a reply to: WarminIndy

What the hell are you talking about? Hong Kong? Do you realise Hong Kong was signed over on a lease? And when the lease ended, Hong Kong was handed back? (highly developed, i might add). I love these ignorant posts, it brightens my day so thank you.