Up to 700 migrants feared drowned after boat capsizes in the Mediterranean

Another day and yet another report of drownings of migrants escaping the troubles in Africa in Libyan waters , this time as many as 700 are feared drowned after their boat was capsized as it headed to the Italian island of Lampedusa , the island has reportedly seen an estimated 9,000 and 10,000 migrants arrive on it's shores this year alone , Lampedusa has a native population of just 5,000 people.

In the past week alone, Italy's coastguard rescued 10,000 migrants whose vessels ran into trouble
Italian ships, the Maltese Navy and commercial vessels are all involved in the rescue operation, 130 miles (210km) off the coast of Lampedusa and 17 miles (27km) from the Libyan coast. Twenty-four bodies have been recovered.
The Italian coastguard's spokesman told the BBC the operation was still focused on search and rescue, "but in time it will be a search [for bodies] only".
Twenty ships and three helicopters were currently involved in the rescue, he added.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Regardless of views on Illegal immigration this is a tragedy on a large scale , 700 men , women and children drowned in just this one incident must be the catalyst for serious action by the EU to attempt to stem the flow , I don't have the answers but this can't be allowed to continue.

It was all a plan by the UK and France. By helping removing Gadaffi they made this continental population shift possible. Until proper government is restored to Libya they reckon this will get worse.

a reply to: gortex

a reply to: gortex

I really hate the nationalism and tribalism that leads to people being more concerned with "immigration" than they are with the deaths of so many innocent people.

Nothing makes me more angry than hearing someone ranting about immigration while completely ignoring the causes. In the UK we see a hell of a lot of such ignorance from the right wing, groups like UKIP, people more interested in condemning people and treating them like criminals rather than what they are - victims of their own countries and people just looking for a better life for themselves and their children.

If we lived in such s**t countries with mob violence, corrupt leaders, constant war, famine, drought, underdevelopment and mass poverty, we would all be trying to get ourselves and our kids to a better life somewhere else too! The only thing that seems to make it acceptable to ignore this obvious fact is race and nationality.

Instead of ranting about all those "evil immigrants coming over here and stealing our jobs!" we should be confronting the reasons why they need to flee their own country to start with.

If they had a decent existence, a decent life, security, safety, prospects, they would not need to be fleeing their own country to begin with. If we spent half as much money on development for these countries as we do on trying to stop people from leaving their lands maybe we would see an improvement?

What we need to be doing is focusing on the reasons for them leaving. Most of the time it's the threat of death and economic problems, and the way to resolve that is through regime change. We need to be supporting democratically minded leaders, people who have a genuine goal to improve the lives of their people, not self-serving dictators who are only in their job because they want to rape and pillage their own people and live a life of luxury while their populations starve.

This is only going to get worse as more people in these countries get access to the Internet and see how well billions of other people live. Internet access is growing across these countries, and this means more and more people will want to (rightly) give their kids the best opportunities in life. If they can't get that security and opportunity at home they will risk their lives to come to our countries in search of what they've seen.

We have to make economic development for these countries an absolute priority.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

By helping removing Gadaffi they made this continental population shift possible

I think the plan to get rid of Gaddafi was more a plan to get their hands on some of Libya's resources than population shift but yeah it seems it will get worse , people smugglers are making a profit and desperate people remain desperate enough to take the risk to get to the land of milk and honey.

This is really shocking.

What can the EU do to stem the flow of migrants, most of whom come from sub-Saharan countries and are classified as economic migrants. Young men, with a lesser number of women and children. Looking for a better life, these are people exploited by people traffickers and stuffed onto boats unsuited to the open sea. However, judging by what is being reported, the aim is to stuff whole families as "job lots", so whoever is selling the "dream" is making it hellish attractive.

The EU - Italians and Maltese can pick them up, but they should only be sent back. It's a hard lesson, but the EU is not open to uncontrolled migration and Italy is struggling to accommodate the numbers. With the migrants come crime and further exploitation.

In the long term, the only way you stop this is to return those who make it to spread the word that the trip is a pointless - and dangerous - expedition.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
It was all a plan by the UK and France. By helping removing Gadaffi they made this continental population shift possible. Until proper government is restored to Libya they reckon this will get worse.

a reply to: gortex

It didn't miraculously start with the taking down of Gaddafi (correct spelling), and it's not just Libya.
The notion that this was all caused by the removal of that one leader is simplistic in the extreme. There was already an exodus of people from these countries due to war and poverty and there has been for decades.

Just as we saw mass immigration from Pakistan and India in decades past, we're seeing it from African nations, and the causes are the same - war and poverty, and people looking for a better life.

We reduced immigration from other countries not by refusing them and sending them back every time they arrived, but by assisting in the development of their own countries and giving them the opportunities they wanted.

originally posted by: paraphi
In the long term, the only way you stop this is to return those who make it to spread the word that the trip is a pointless - and dangerous - expedition.

That isn't going to stop them. They already know it's an incredibly dangerous journey and they already know the risks, but they choose to take those risks anyway because they have no other option.

The only way we can possibly have a chance of ever resolving this is by making their own country worth living in. These people don't want to risk their lives to travel to strange and foreign lands, leaving behind their own families and friends. They do it because they have no choice.

These people have little left to lose. We need to find a way to make their own home and their own country worth staying in.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
It was all a plan by the UK and France. By helping removing Gadaffi they made this continental population shift possible. Until proper government is restored to Libya they reckon this will get worse.

a reply to: gortex

It didn't miraculously start with the taking down of Gaddafi (correct spelling), and it's not just Libya.
The notion that this was all caused by the removal of that one leader is simplistic in the extreme. There was already an exodus of people from these countries due to war and poverty and there has been for decades.

Just as we saw mass immigration from Pakistan and India in decades past, we're seeing it from African nations, and the causes are the same - war and poverty, and people looking for a better life.

We reduced immigration from other countries not by refusing them and sending them back every time they arrived, but by assisting in the development of their own countries and giving them the opportunities they wanted.

I watched a program on it this morning and the Italian said it's got LOADS worse since Gadaffi was removed. That's coming from the horses mouth

It's looking like the population transfer of Europeans to the Americas in the past. But rolls reversed this time into Europe, population explosion, bad governments, religious wars and easy transportation so it will get worse. Been to Italy last year and they are everywhere in Italy.

a reply to: gortex

These people though are not fleeing persecution or a war zone because if they were then they would be protected if they went to a EU or a EU members embassy, that is how you claim asylum.

If the EU wants to stop this flood, what they should do is say that anyone arriving other than applying for asylum via a EU of their embassy, will be denied entry, if you have no identifying papers of passport you will be denied anyway.

The boats should be opened fire on if they refuse to turn back, they are not fleeing anything at all other than a freeride.

The status is clear & has been for decades:

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

www.un.org...

Yet they travel from safe country to safe country to safe country to get into the EU if they are genuinely seeking asylum or refugee status then there are ways & means enshrined in law of doing this they will not cost them thousands of dollars or a dangerous crossing of the mediterranean.

I've just been reading the news on this, it's just dreadful.

These people need to stand and fight for the change they want for their home country instead of abandoning it in the hundreds of thousands and fleeing to Europe, we cannot take them all.

Not only that, but we don't know who the Hell they really are. Only the other day a bunch of these people were flung overboard just because they refused to pray to Allah, and instead of turning the boat back around with the murderers on it, they were taken into custody and given 3 hots and a cot.

Even an immigrant criminal has a better life in the western jail than a law-abiding citizen does in the East, so no wonder they all wanna flock here. How much are they costing our already austerity-burdened nations?

Something's got to be done about it, because we can't accommodate the entire Eastern population who want to escape war and pay for it too. They need to find a way to make their own country habitable, with Europe's help if necessary.

a reply to: Rocker2013

So you don't mind putting up some illegal immigrants in your house for a while?

You know you can always share your resources with them, after all, that's what nice people do.

I would like to see that for once, people who talk about it actually doing something about it.

Can you show us any pictures of the people that you moved into your own home and fed and clothed them, or are you one of those who thinks your government should do it at the expense of your fellow countrymen?

Let's see if you put your money where your mouth is, get on the ball and do something about so another 700 people don't have to die and no one has to go hungry in your country. BTW, what are you doing for the Roma and Travelers in your country?

Terrible story.
I heard this on the news this morn..made me think of the story a few days ago about some christians being thrown overboard during one of these escapes from Libya..I don't know why I just did.
Sounds like the whole thing is out of control.

a reply to: gortex

Look... they have to realize that illegally trying to get into Europe isn't the way to go. I don't feel anything for those who died in this incident... why should I?

They shouldn't be doing it and they shouldn't be putting their childrens live's at risk by doing so.

I have read many reports of boats sinking for quite a while now and while at first I was really interested in this, I have since got used to it happening quite frequently and really as I've said already, they should not be doing it.

Why don't they go to 'Eygpt' or 'Morocco'? Its a lot closer and less risky!

I actually agree with what 'Kate Hopkins' said the other day on the issue. (For the most part anyway).

I have no Sympathy anymore for them and we don't want anymore.

originally posted by: DanaKatherineScully
These people though are not fleeing persecution or a war zone because if they were then they would be protected if they went to a EU or a EU members embassy, that is how you claim asylum.

If the EU wants to stop this flood, what they should do is say that anyone arriving other than applying for asylum via a EU of their embassy, will be denied entry, if you have no identifying papers of passport you will be denied anyway.

The boats should be opened fire on if they refuse to turn back, they are not fleeing anything at all other than a freeride.

The status is clear & has been for decades:

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

www.un.org...

Yet they travel from safe country to safe country to safe country to get into the EU if they are genuinely seeking asylum or refugee status then there are ways & means enshrined in law of doing this they will not cost them thousands of dollars or a dangerous crossing of the mediterranean.

Riiiight..So people from Libya are not fleeing persecution? How do you know that? you dont know a jack # about Libya,thats why. We smashed their country,a country that was by African standards, a heaven compared to others. There is civil war in Libya as we speak,but you dont know anything about it because it isnt on FOX and CNNt.

I have a solution. Send theese refugees to countries that were most active in removing Gaddafi

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

I don't feel anything for those who died in this incident... why should I?

If this was a European ferry that had sunk with the loss of 700 people I'm pretty sure there would be outpourings of sorrow here for the family and friends of those lost , it seems because these people are the worlds unwanted their lives don't matter , we bare some responsibility for their plight yet seem to of washed our hands of them now things have gone wrong.

They shouldn't be doing it and they shouldn't be putting their childrens live's at risk by doing so.

That's easy to say when you're sitting in your comfy chair in paradise , if the roles were reversed would you not try to give your children a better start in life than stay in a place of danger and hunger ?

a reply to: Rocker2013

I think you'd be singing a different tune if it was you on the nasty end of immigrant based criminal violence. I am all for giving individuals the benefit of the doubt, but when it comes to immigration and immigrant violence, it's mod rules. If immigrants get out of hand, ship 'em back from whence they came.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: paraphi
In the long term, the only way you stop this is to return those who make it to spread the word that the trip is a pointless - and dangerous - expedition.

That isn't going to stop them. They already know it's an incredibly dangerous journey and they already know the risks, but they choose to take those risks anyway because they have no other option.

The only way we can possibly have a chance of ever resolving this is by making their own country worth living in. These people don't want to risk their lives to travel to strange and foreign lands, leaving behind their own families and friends. They do it because they have no choice.

These people have little left to lose. We need to find a way to make their own home and their own country worth staying in.

Why do "we" have to make "their" countries places worth living in and how do "we" do that?

Look at all the flack countries who try adventures in colonialism and nation building take on.

It's a lost cause. As harsh as it is to say, these people made their bed, and they should lay in it, not flee and ruin the homes of other peoples by bringing their own cultures with them.

The real issue is that they live by a failed system, and until they change that, they will not get better lives. And we who have better systems have tried to change that, and it doesn't work.

originally posted by: BlackNWhite

originally posted by: DanaKatherineScully
These people though are not fleeing persecution or a war zone because if they were then they would be protected if they went to a EU or a EU members embassy, that is how you claim asylum.

If the EU wants to stop this flood, what they should do is say that anyone arriving other than applying for asylum via a EU of their embassy, will be denied entry, if you have no identifying papers of passport you will be denied anyway.

The boats should be opened fire on if they refuse to turn back, they are not fleeing anything at all other than a freeride.

The status is clear & has been for decades:

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

www.un.org...

Yet they travel from safe country to safe country to safe country to get into the EU if they are genuinely seeking asylum or refugee status then there are ways & means enshrined in law of doing this they will not cost them thousands of dollars or a dangerous crossing of the mediterranean.

Riiiight..So people from Libya are not fleeing persecution? How do you know that? you dont know a jack # about Libya,thats why. We smashed their country,a country that was by African standards, a heaven compared to others. There is civil war in Libya as we speak,but you dont know anything about it because it isnt on FOX and CNNt.

I have a solution. Send theese refugees to countries that were most active in removing Gaddafi

The people, 99% of the people are not from Libya, they use Libya as a transit point, they are people from all over Africa.

As for smashing their country, you are right, we should never of bothered to try & help, Africans have said many times they do not want help from The White Man so the best thing to do is cut off all aid, sending food & stopping debt relief to all African countries, it is about time Africans stood up to their leaders, Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of Africa until the land was taken from the white farmers & given back to black africans & now the country is starving, well they made their bed so they can lay in it as fas i am concerned.

The best thing for the West to do is contain Africa & The Middle East & let them fight it out amongst themselves, they seem to enjoy killing each other.

a reply to: gortex

As I said 'there are places closer to home to go to', why risk your life and childs life on some dodgy boat?

And another thing is, if they have £750 upwards for a smuggler, why can't they catch a plane and arrive legally? And then claim Asylum (which is what they do anyway).