Metaphysica Music Theory

Hi all,

I haven't been on in almost a week - no biggie as I was recently accused of being on here to much, on another post lol.
Well, I got a bit busy, as I took a job from someone requesting that I analyze some mp3's.

Not just someone, and not just any mp3's.
This person is a world leader in the medical field, who bought by book on Amazon, then hired me the next day.
I am analyzing mp3's of two genres, basically - spiritual, as in chants and the like, and songs, as in pop, techno, and the like.

Well, no small job and I'm blessed and honored to say the least. I intended to do so when writing my book, and that chapter did not get accomplished before publication, so you could say I just had part of a project funded. More importantly though, the results are quite amazing. The projects will continue, and results will be published. Keep you posted.

My "analyzation" forms consist of many aspects and correlations, including the basics like pitch, key, color-octaves and cymatics, chakras/energy centers/glands/accupuncture merridians, BPM-to-Brainwave Entrainment, overtones, harmonies, dissonances, lyrical intent, and matches to DNA frequencies.

Anyhoo, I just finished the more "spiritual" stuffs a few days ago, started on the songs today, and felt the need to explain some things, as he is not a musician - that's why he hired me, I am. The spiritual pieces were of completely different meter, pitch, and scales than our stupid and rigid Western Standards, and half-way through I had to stop, research, reset every spectrographs settings, and start over. Lesson learned.

So, now that I'm starting on the actual songs, I felt I should explain to him some differences between spiritual, traditional, and pop music. Then, I thought, well, you guys might like to hear it too.

Here is my "NOTES" for this job:

I know that you love music, but aren’t a musician, so let me explain a couple points that will help you to understand the differences between analyzing a pop song, as opposed to traditional or spiritual music or chants.

In most pop music, the artist/author is not at all aware of the color-octaves or other physical and vibratory correlations whatsoever. In spiritual music and chanting, some are, and some are not. However, intuition and instruction are fine-tuned, and intent is present, so it “works.”

It also “works” in pop music, whether the author or listener knows it or not.
But doesn’t “work” with any kind of conscious intent, and often in pop music, the authors intuitions are not as trustworthy. They are not even true to their own spiritual beliefs, let alone a monk, priest, shaman, or etc.

Nor are they “classically” trained musicians, and their intuitions are often influenced by drugs or alcohol.

Music generally consists of three elements – rhythm, harmony, and melody.

In popular music, the rhythm – if not just a computerized drum machine – is metered by a metronome, rather than allowing the drummer to set the “flow” of the entire group. The drums or drum machine track is programmed or recorded first.

Then, as you can tell from all the recent “autotune” stuff, the bass and melody are recorded (or programmed in.) This is also exact with no room for fluctuations or the beautiful “ornamentation” as it’s called in chants. Unless it’s a stringed instrument, then a little play is allowed.

Then the harmonies are included, but layered far in the background. There are Hindu, Rosicrucian, Theosophical and Anthroposophical theories (and more I’m sure) regarding 3rds, 5ths, and 7ths in scales that are often beyond me in comprehension, in relation to other planes and dimensions. These are the important overtones, which may contain valuable information on a subconscious level, yet they are buried, hidden, or “occult” – as their message are in this dimension as well.

These tight restrictions on the production of modern pop music are fairly recent.
The electronic guitar tuner was only invented in the 1980’s, and more often than not, people tuned by intuition, or by a nearby piano, or by playing a recording of a song which they knew was in a certain key, and tuning to it. As a result, after the guitar tuning to the bass, then the other guitar tuning to the first, then the bass double-checking, the band may end up sharp or flat after “fine-tuning” to each other, as opposed to each person just using the same electronic means. Which was acceptable, as long as they were in tune with each other.

Drummers were allowed to just play and follow their own meter. They are the heartbeat of the band, and over time, would become intuitive to their band’s “collective consciousness.” I remember band practices or shows back in the 1980’s or 1990’s where often in practice or at a show, we would play a song quite noticeably slower or faster than usual. After, we would discuss how though different, it was appropriate to not only our personal mood, but also that of the audience. This doesn’t happen often in this day and age of strict electronic production.

Unfortunately, this strict digitization of rhythm and melody have also coincided with the age of the DJ or “producer,” as opposed to the “band” or “group.” And now when you go to a drum circle or “jam session,” it sucks! No one can “play well with others!”

Why? Because everyone is in their own individual little world, with no computer to tell them what tempo to follow, and they don’t know how to follow a human “leader” and connect in to the collective consciousness. They are always a little “off.”

If they even bother to elect a “leader,” they ignore them. It’s kind of like society in general.

I feel that this digitation, combined with the “pitch standard” of A440Hz and its poor correlations to human energy centers and physics, are quite possibly responsible for the decline in quality of “popular” music. The fact that you and I even “feel” so strongly about music in this day and age, is testament to its power and importance in our daily lives.

Interesting read. Enjoy your thousandth (and 1,001st) star.

a reply to: KAOStheory

great thread.

Great thought!

Interesting. I lament the rise of rap/hip-hop where machines made it possible for anyone to produce beats. Add bassline and talk over some lyrics and voila - a rap song is born. While this became available to many who formerly would not have had the patience, talent or inclination to learn how to play an instrument it naturally followed there would be a decline in quality and creativity.

The modern music industry has at times forced genres to popularity; first it was pop songs, then came disco, rap, hip-hop, trance, dubstep etc. The commonality between these genres is they are all dance oriented, popular dance to be more specific with a subsequent usage of common times 3/4 & 4/4 - easy to dance to but limited in the amount of expression that can be created. It is a repetitive beat coupled with sexually suggestive lyrics that made it popular in dance clubs.

Basically, most music can be lumped in to 2 categories: dance with the heavy emphasis on beat and sexuality or imaginative "listenable" music that induces imagery and dreamlike states with any number of shades in between.

originally posted by: KAOStheory
Here is my "NOTES" for this job:

I know that you love music, but aren’t a musician, so let me explain a couple points that will help you to understand the differences between analyzing a pop song, as opposed to traditional or spiritual music or chants.

In most pop music, the artist/author is not at all aware of the color-octaves or other physical and vibratory correlations whatsoever. In spiritual music and chanting, some are, and some are not. However, intuition and instruction are fine-tuned, and intent is present, so it “works.”

It also “works” in pop music, whether the author or listener knows it or not.
But doesn’t “work” with any kind of conscious intent, and often in pop music, the authors intuitions are not as trustworthy. They are not even true to their own spiritual beliefs, let alone a monk, priest, shaman, or etc.

Nor are they “classically” trained musicians, and their intuitions are often influenced by drugs or alcohol.

Music generally consists of three elements – rhythm, harmony, and melody.

In popular music, the rhythm – if not just a computerized drum machine – is metered by a metronome, rather than allowing the drummer to set the “flow” of the entire group. The drums or drum machine track is programmed or recorded first.

Then, as you can tell from all the recent “autotune” stuff, the bass and melody are recorded (or programmed in.) This is also exact with no room for fluctuations or the beautiful “ornamentation” as it’s called in chants. Unless it’s a stringed instrument, then a little play is allowed.

Then the harmonies are included, but layered far in the background. There are Hindu, Rosicrucian, Theosophical and Anthroposophical theories (and more I’m sure) regarding 3rds, 5ths, and 7ths in scales that are often beyond me in comprehension, in relation to other planes and dimensions. These are the important overtones, which may contain valuable information on a subconscious level, yet they are buried, hidden, or “occult” – as their message are in this dimension as well.

These tight restrictions on the production of modern pop music are fairly recent.
The electronic guitar tuner was only invented in the 1980’s, and more often than not, people tuned by intuition, or by a nearby piano, or by playing a recording of a song which they knew was in a certain key, and tuning to it. As a result, after the guitar tuning to the bass, then the other guitar tuning to the first, then the bass double-checking, the band may end up sharp or flat after “fine-tuning” to each other, as opposed to each person just using the same electronic means. Which was acceptable, as long as they were in tune with each other.

Drummers were allowed to just play and follow their own meter. They are the heartbeat of the band, and over time, would become intuitive to their band’s “collective consciousness.” I remember band practices or shows back in the 1980’s or 1990’s where often in practice or at a show, we would play a song quite noticeably slower or faster than usual. After, we would discuss how though different, it was appropriate to not only our personal mood, but also that of the audience. This doesn’t happen often in this day and age of strict electronic production.

Unfortunately, this strict digitization of rhythm and melody have also coincided with the age of the DJ or “producer,” as opposed to the “band” or “group.” And now when you go to a drum circle or “jam session,” it sucks! No one can “play well with others!”

Why? Because everyone is in their own individual little world, with no computer to tell them what tempo to follow, and they don’t know how to follow a human “leader” and connect in to the collective consciousness. They are always a little “off.”

If they even bother to elect a “leader,” they ignore them. It’s kind of like society in general.

I feel that this digitation, combined with the “pitch standard” of A440Hz and its poor correlations to human energy centers and physics, are quite possibly responsible for the decline in quality of “popular” music. The fact that you and I even “feel” so strongly about music in this day and age, is testament to its power and importance in our daily lives.

Did you include scale as in just, tempered, well tempered, pythagorean, pelog, middle eastern etc.
Most music around the world achieve their scale through the overtone series in variations of just intonation. Where for exampls a perfect 5th is the third partial and the two note ratio is 3:2

There is extensive studies on similar subjects already you may be interested in. I recommend david reck's music of the whole earth which describes how music evolved through africa into India where it was first studied in a intellectual way thousands of years ago.
(india has a 22 note master scale (like our chromatic) and is not microtonal but rather overtonal. All the 22 notes are derived from the physics of sound and the overtone series. So for instance you can get 2 different major thirds by one is the overtone of the tonic the other is by a series of fifths.

The other book I would recommend is W.A. Mathieu "Harmonic Experience. He explains the origins and inner working of tonal harmony. From the overtone series to modern equal temperment.

Anyway good stuff love this kind of thing. I wouldn't say drummers could use their own meter. For thousand of years specific meters have been used with specific songs. In India tal cycles (like time signatures) are very specific can be 130 beats long but have very specific accents that make a very specific sound. You can Improvise within those boundaries but they are like a drummers scale.

I specialized in tonal harmony and arranging (mostly around modern classical and jazz harmonies) and also Hindustani classical. I also make musical instruments for a living.

a reply to: luthier

Well if i were examining multiple tracks using multiple temperaments and scales i would, but all of the songs are equal tempered A440 (so far) and all of the chants are 7-note scales in perfect fifths. So that was indicated in the forms.

Very cool that you make musical instruments, and specialize in Hindu musics. I plan to visit India to learn sitar.
I wonder if you've seen this article, or if you could recognize any scales in the frequencies they found in our DNA.
They all center on C#, as do most classical Ragas.
www.oursounduniverse.com...

oh and i agree about drummers. i hate it when a drummer refuses to use a metronome.
but they don't always work for every song, different parts may have different tempos. i just know that on albums i've recorded, sometimes you want to use one, sometimes not. the tempo may vary slightly throughout the song, but thst's necessary to the "feel" of some songs, and that's one thing we hear less of these days.

ETA: just noticed the typo in my title. "Metaphysica"?! oops.

originally posted by: KAOStheory
a reply to: luthier

Well if i were examining multiple tracks using multiple temperaments and scales i would, but all of the songs are equal tempered A440 (so far) and all of the chants are 7-note scales in perfect fifths. So that was indicated in the forms.

Very cool that you make musical instruments, and specialize in Hindu musics. I plan to visit India to learn sitar.
I wonder if you've seen this article, or if you could recognize any scales in the frequencies they found in our DNA.
They all center on C#, as do most classical Ragas.
www.oursounduniverse.com...

oh and i agree about drummers. i hate it when a drummer refuses to use a metronome.
but they don't always work for every song, different parts may have different tempos. i just know that on albums i've recorded, sometimes you want to use one, sometimes not. the tempo may vary slightly throughout the song, but thst's necessary to the "feel" of some songs, and that's one thing we hear less of these days.

ETA: just noticed the typo in my title. "Metaphysica"?! oops.

I will check out your link and get back to you.
I thought you said meter not tempo my bad.
The chants are in Pythagorean tuning if they are all perfect fifths. (just incase you were not aware of the term)

Get the "harmonic expirence",.. it has you sing over a drone and use harmonics to create a tone lattice of fifths and thirds in just intonation. So you learn to sing in tune as well as long as you use a drone the first 5th say c# to g# is only 2 cents off so even a piano can be used.

But to see how out of tune eq temp is hit the G# harmonic on a guitar and then play a g# on a piano. Or tune the e string to a C and hit the e harmonic and then the e on the piano. Our major third is 14 cents off the overtonal third. Which is very noticeable. The overtonal third and major seventh ( the third of the fifth... tune a string to c hit the g harmonic tune a second string exactly to that harmonic then hit the third partial of the g string ( b) and there is the overtonal major seventh. Wheww its not very easy to explain quickly.


here is a representation of 12 tones of just intonation. Left to right are perfect 5th harmonics (4ths left to right) up and down are major 3rd harmonics. Its not well known this is the basic twelve tone original scale of the west. Its a crude representation but look at the triads. FAC CEG etc look how the form right triangles (more obvious on staff but you have to play with cleffs to reduce octaves and make it neat bach did this) same with minor chords. The lattice continues infinitely up and down as well as left and right. Far beyond twelve tones.

A -E -B -F#
F -C -G -D
DbAbEbBb



The ratios in just 3:2, 5:4 etc occur everywhere in nature and our brains. Keppler used music theory, acoustics, and harmony to come up with his ground breaking astronomical research.

I have a constant, slightly flat F# in my head that I tune to.
I have found that the basic pentatonic scale is a solid base to play anything.
Even exotic scales are just embellishments and subtractions from this core scale.
I've been having fun lately fiddling around with Lydian/Dominant.
Take your basic pentatonic, add an augmented 4th and a flatted 7th.
Space jazz all day.
Take your basic pentatonic, add a flat 6th and major 7 and it'll take straight to the mystical East.

a reply to: KAOStheory

Awesome work, and a very interesting take on things. Can't wait to dig a little deeper into this. Thanks for the thought provoking thread.

a reply to: KAOStheory

Reading your thread reminded me of an enlightening article I read about the change of Concert A pitch from 432 Hz to 440 Hz.

Where 432 Hz is in harmony with nature 440 Hz is in opposition to it.

Check out this u2be video using a tonoscope to see the difference between the two.



432Hz vs 440Hz

Thanks all!
luthier - Yes, well, the chants I was studying were Pythagorean - ish.
They involved a 7-note scale, but with semitones. Also, the pitch of certain notes would increase as the piece went on, while others remained the same.

SkunkApe - Awesome, I'd love to hear it! Any links?

dezertdog - Check out my other posts, I've covered "the Pitch Game" extensively in my book as well. I use only A432Hz in my work. Here's my chart, you are welcome to use and share it. I expanded on it in another, I'll upload & post itl...

a reply to: KAOStheory

This is all way over my head but I can sense that the work you are doing is very important as music itself is very important to me personally and I sense that it is also important to the world, the living beings on this world, and the very universe itself. Even the Bible starts off talking about "The Word". New research and discoveries in this area could literally change the world. The first thing we need to do, in my humble opinion, is to dump the Nazi designed 440hz standard. Put it back to 442 or 443 where it belongs. (if I remember correctly)

a reply to: 3n19m470
Check out the charts I posted above. A432, you're right...but...
not the Nazis. That's a misconception. Not that A440 is any good, and they did support it, but A440 was adopted as an international standard in 1870. Check out my thread on the "Solfeggio" hoax to further clarify their confusion.

(I'm finishing up this project and in the middle of converting two huge 13-minute video files, so my processor is running like crapola. Also, it's rainy here and the interwebs are slow already. I can't get ATS to open and let me into my profile in another window and and link the thread, sorry ;( )

There are no specific audio frequencies to which all human bodies resonate. This is because human bodies come in different shapes and sizes, with different-sized and -shaped cavities inside them. No frequency — 432Hz, 440Hz or any other number — can possibly have the same special physical effect on all humans.

What about psychological effects? That's a more subtle question. Still, for all but a few musicians and non-musicians, who are blessed with perfect pitch, the experience of pitch (that is, frequency) is relative, not absolute. You can tell whether one note is higher or lower than another, but you can't tell what frequency (pitch) the note is.

Even someone with perfect pitch would find it hard to tell whether a piece of music was played in an A=432 or A=440-derived scale, unless two otherwise identical pieces in the two different scales were played one after the other. And whether someone has perfect pitch or not, I am willing to bet they couldn't even identify single notes as belonging to one or the other of the respective scales unless some other tones were played for comparison purposes.

You may, of course, argue that the difference is subliminally perceptible. However, there would have to be some proof of this claim (MRI scans showing different activity in the relevant parts of the brain, perhaps?) before it could be accepted.

*

It is untrue to say that music was ever widely made in scales derived from an A=432 reference. There was no standard reference frequency used anywhere in the world before the twentieth century, so instruments (even church organs) were all over the shop as regards pitch. They could vary by over a fifth! This obviously created a big problem for travelling musicians, especially singers, as well as for instrument builders, piano tuners, etc., which is why a standard pitch, A=440, eventually came to be adopted.

The Nazis had very little to do with that, except for the fact that the frequency A=440, a compromise among various proposals submitted to an international conference on the subject held in London, was suggested by the German broadcasting authorities, and Hitler was in power in Germany at this time.

*

My education was in physics with a specialization in musical acoustics, and I have been a musician myself for more than 35 years. In my somewhat informed opinion, there is no merit to the claims made for A=432. Tuning slightly below concert pitch or playing very slightly flat on any instrument does tend to give an apparently 'fuller' and more emotional sound, but this is also an effect of relative pitch (other instruments in the ensemble have to be playing in tune). Besides, it is not associated with any particular frequency or set of frequencies.

Here are the results of a lab experiment conducted by a professor of acoustics to see whether people preferred A440, A432 or another reference frequency. Click the link and see the results for yourself. They will surprise some of you. If you read the whole blog post you will get a few more surprises. You should also read the comments, most of which are from A=432 defenders.

Still not convinced? Here's a (somewhat less scientific) test you can take yourself. What do your ears tell you?


If anyone wishes to debate me on this I am happy to do so, but please don't waste your time and mine by showering me with links to the usual internet twaddle about Nazis, cymatics, stones moved by chanting, Tibetan bowls, chakras, musical cures for cancer, etc, etc, etc. I have read all that, thanks. Genuine experiments or theoretical arguments in acoustics, psychoacoustics or physiology, the results of double-blind listening tests — that's what I'm interested in.

a reply to: KAOStheory

No problem, I'll just click your name and check your threads I'm no expert, but I am not Totally inept at this kind of "stuff" lol whatever it's called.. website navigation? And thank you for correcting me on the Nazi thing! I always appreciate a free upgrade in knowledge

I actually already saved those charts to my phone and texted them to a friend who is trying to learn guitar. Our conversation started about his sleep paralysis and how he doesn't see entities like some do, and I knew that condition has to do with brainwaves and levels of consciousness, then I saw those charts that involve both music And brain waves, both things he could be interested in so it was like a doubleplusgood lol...

Edit: Some of my stars are not sticking. I'm in the process of moving so wifi shut off temp. and using the "mobile network" which is doubleplusungood...

a reply to: Astyanax
What you had to say is very interesting and I will take it into consideration and probably watch your video. Thank you for sharing your point of view here which may very well be true, but I will wait to see if someone more knowledgeable accepts your challenge

a reply to: Astyanax

Ah, I see all these tests, the video, and your whole argument is based on what people prefer, what they think sounds better. As far as I know, the whole debate had nothing to do with the opinions of people who've spent their whole lives listening to 440, but more about the actual effects such frequencies have on the human body. This is something mkre difficult to prove either way, so for now I'll remain on the fence until a more scientific approach produces results that come to light.

Your post still provided some food for thought and I do appreciate that as well as the statements about musical instruments in the past... what a nightmare for those troubadors... who never made it to bombay...