US 'Trainers' Arrive in Ukraine for Operation Fearless Guardian

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Ancient Champion
Us putting 300 troops isn't up to Russia it's up to Ukraine and nobody's going to war with Russia.

It is because russia is using the same fail ideology the imperial Japanese used before WW2.

They "are a great nation" and thus "have a right to a great empire".

The quotes are actually from the imperial Japanese, but I think they fit ratwell in this context.

Americans have never said they "are a great nation" have they now. Americans don't have bases outside their country.

How many bases does Russia have outside of Russia? How many does America have outside of America?

You ever wonder why?

A lot of places want american military in their countries.

We spend money in their economies, we provide security, and it prevents possible enemies from attacking them.

Nobody wants a Russian base in their country, because russia has a long track record of keeping other peoples land once they have military forces on it.

Do you not see the obvious advantage of US bases, and disadvantage of Russian bases?

NO WE DO NOT, POLITICIANS DO, because they're coerced by the Americans, and their job is on the line.

WE DO NOT WANT AMERICAN BASES in OUR COUNTRY.


Gets tiring hearing that bs excuse, we all know well how the world of politics works.

So by "we" you personally are speaking for everyone in every nation we have a base in?

OK just Making sure.

Fact remains, when a yank comes to our country and if its in a state of war due to your actions, well, best stack that back plating in your body armour.

You WILL be shot at from all sides.

It will be russian not american actions.

In fact, there is already war in Ukraine because of russia.

Where is your malice for them?

It seems to me you are blaming the west when we aren't there, don't have forces fighting, weren't supplying weapons etc.

Russia had forces there, they supplied them with weapons, they started the fighting.

Why are you blaming the west?

BTW, I would suggest against shooting at western forces.

They all wear body armor that an AK doesnt penetrate.

They have better weapons than you do.

And when the shooting starts, if you are in cover, they will call in artillery and or airstrikes.

Just saying man.

For your safety, I would strongly advise against firing on trained soldiers if you are a civie.

a reply to: bullcat

I am not offering a "solution".

The problem we are talking about is a full blown war with Russia. If the UK needs soldiers and my country is not involved I would take the first flight over and offer myself to the defence of it.

If my country was involved in a war effort against Russia, the Uk would be too. I would again offer myself up to it.

If there is a full blown war with Russia and SOMEHOW the UK manages to avoid it, then cool. I will visit for some R and R away from my radiated country.

LOL

Meddling? You do realize that a war of these proportions isnt even in the same world as what you are used to seeing in the media about the US or the west.

We at that point, in a state of total war, would have firing squads, martial law, and basically totalitarian rule. EVERYONE WOULD. Even freaking switzerland would.

No one is going to listen to you bitch while the very country itself is on the brink of collapse.

If your country avoids war, then cool. If not, I dont care what you or a fringe group say. I will defend the country of our cousins across the ocean if they ask us to help.

Wanting a war with China or Russia or any of these countries is sheer madness.

That should tell you about the mentality of your leadership.

No matter which way you vote, it is two paths on the same road in the same direction.

Why do you still keep voting?

DO SOMETHING to stop it.

*cue we can't do anything excuses, we're powerless*



You can't stop it by being in OUR countries, you stop it in YOUR country.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: bullcat

I am not offering a "solution".

The problem we are talking about is a full blown war with Russia. If the UK needs soldiers and my country is not involved I would take the first flight over and offer myself to the defence of it.

If my country was involved in a war effort against Russia, the Uk would be too. I would again offer myself up to it.

If there is a full blown war with Russia and SOMEHOW the UK manages to avoid it, then cool. I will visit for some R and R away from my radiated country.

LOL

Meddling? You do realize that a war of these proportions isnt even in the same world as what you are used to seeing in the media about the US or the west.

We at that point, in a state of total war, would have firing squads, martial law, and basically totalitarian rule. EVERYONE WOULD. Even freaking switzerland would.

No one is going to listen to you bitch while the very country itself is on the brink of collapse.

If your country avoids war, then cool. If not, I dont care what you or a fringe group say. I will defend the country of our cousins across the ocean if they ask us to help.

It is funny to me how these prorussian folks think Iraq or Afghanistan is an example of war.

Those were wars in the same manner duck hunting is war.

If a real war breaks out between the west and russia, you will see little regard for civilian casualties etc like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It will be more like WW2 were the civies just better get out of the way.

Total war, true, honest to god, no punches pulled, total war, that is the only result of war between russia and the west.

Everything in the area involved will make Chechnya not seem so bad.

a reply to: johnwick

You're right, they're not wars, they're Operation Freedoms.


Put whatever name you want on it, the people seem to be tired of it. Do you think those coffins returning home are prime time entertainment?

a reply to: johnwick

This situation is way different than Vietnam or Iraq/Afghanistan.

In those were fighting against the civilian population, on their own land.

No different. We train one aspect of the population (usually a puppet government) to fight a segment of the population that resists the puppet "regime". Rank and file on both sides are civilians set against each other. US is the puppet master.

a reply to: johnwick

It is funny to me how these prorussian folks think Iraq or Afghanistan is an example of war.

Ukrainians aren't Russian. And this is Department of Defense video from Associated Press that shows the very real ongoing bombing campaign in Iraq (read that right now). You think those are leaflets they are dropping on bridge spans in Tikrit?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: johnwick

It is funny to me how these prorussian folks think Iraq or Afghanistan is an example of war.

Ukrainians aren't Russian. And this is Department of Defense video from Associated Press that shows the very real ongoing bombing campaign in Iraq (read that right now). You think those are leaflets they are dropping on bridge spans in Tikrit?

Operation leaflet drop.

Amazing how much bs avoidance names yanks put on their wars just to claim they're not wars.

a reply to: bullcat

You do realize that many countries dropped bombs in Iraq. Almost all of Europe did, especially the Uk.

If the US and Russia fight a war, those same countries would be bombing Russia.

So the "Yanks doing it" might feel better rolling off the tongue but the bombs rolling off of european combat planes dont exactly get that same cushion.

EDIT TO ADD:

LONDON (AP) -- Denmark and Belgium on Friday became the latest countries to join the U.S.-led coalition that is launching airstrikes on Islamic State group militants in Iraq. Lawmakers in Britain were also debating whether to commit warplanes to the struggle.

Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt said her government would send four operational planes and three reserve jets along with 250 pilots and support staff to the fight against the Islamic State group in Iraq. The deployment will last for 12 months. Lawmakers in Denmark must also approve, but that is considered a formality.

"No one should be ducking in this case," she said. "Everyone should contribute."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

That is operation waffle and chocolate drop

France is supporting US airstrikes in northern Iraq against forces of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). On Saturday, after speaking with British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President François Hollande, US President Barack Obama announced that “both leaders express strong support for actions and agreed to join us in providing humanitarian assistance.”
On Friday, the Elysée presidential palace had released a statement supporting Obama’s new intervention in Iraq. Subsequently Hollande confirmed France’s involvement in the Iraq offensive. “France will proceed in the coming hours with the first deliveries of first aid equipment in Iraq,” he said.
The statement made clear that France is preparing to participate militarily in the new war.

www.wsws.org...

That is for operation croissant.

On Thursday, the Bundeswehr (Armed Forces) began the first German arms shipments to Iraq. From Leipzig Airport, a Dutch cargo plane departed with 27 tons of munitions. The plane transported 50 bazookas plus ammunition, 520 rifles and 20 machine guns.
Overall, the German government wants to deliver weapons worth around 70 million euros to Iraq in the next few days. This will include 30 “Milan” anti-tank weapons systems with a total of 500 rockets, 16,000 G3 and G36 assault rifles, as well as 10,000 hand grenades. In addition, there will also be 40 machine guns and 4,000 protective vests and helmets, SUVs and five “Dingo 1” armoured patrol vehicles.
A few hours after the start of the arms shipments, Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen made a surprise visit to Erbil in northern Iraq. In the capital of the Kurdish autonomous region, she met with President Masud Barzani and German soldiers who have been stationed in northern Iraq for several weeks. Together they attended a training facility in which the Bundeswehr will train 10,000 Kurdish Peshmerga for the fight against the Islamic State (IS) militias operating in the northern part of Syria and in Iraq.

www.wsws.org...

That is operation frankfurter.

a reply to: tadaman

So the "Yanks doing it" might feel better rolling off the tongue but the bombs rolling off of european combat planes don't exactly get that same cushion.

You did see the Department of Defense tag in the video I brought? Thats US bombs falling from US planes on Iraq. You could call them NATO planes, too, I won't complain…

a reply to: intrptr

You did read the verifiable news sources showing support from FRANCE and GERMANY right?

Sending arms and military support to iraq right?

Thats what is known, but air strikes have always been part of any lucrative arms deal. Plenty of European countries have dropped bombs though.

Good point on the UN war planes. They are from everywhere arent they?

DO THEY DROP TEDDIES AND FIRE GUMMY DROPS?


EDIT TO ADD:
Here is another from last year.

French jets have carried out their first strikes against Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq, the office of President Francois Hollande says.
A statement said planes had attacked an IS depot in north-east Iraq, and there would be more raids in the coming days.

www.bbc.com...

Have you even seen the members of the initial coalition which has only grown? EVen Freakin kazakhstan and the Dominican republic sent troops or military equipment.

EVEN: Norway contributed with ARTHUR counter-battery radar systems, which pointed out 1500 bombing targets during the first days of the war. (The British minister of defence, Geoff Hoon, thanked Norway for its "robust" contribution. WIKI

CHECK wikileaks. Even CANADA has been exposed as clandestinely sending military support in the form of troops and war planes to Iraq.

ALL of the west was there and then some. Parts of eastern europe, many in south America, the WORLD was there in Iraq. So while it feels better to blame the US like always, know that if there was ACTUAL opposition to the war in YOUR COUNTRIES there wouldnt have been one. YOUR people no matter where you are, right down to El salvador and your most unheard of contributor sent troops and hardware. THEY KILLED IRAQIS...Know that. Real pacifists. You dont even know the world you live in yet you bitch about my people who foot the majority of the bill in money and lives for the actions of the whole damned world.

NOT TO MENTION that Blackwater didnt ONLY HIRE Americans. It was a mercenary force from ALL OVER THE WORLD. A mercenary force that was 3-4 times LARGER than the formal military presence.

SO dont throw stones....your house is glass too.

a reply to: bullcat

Nato is a defensive force. Not an offensive, typically. The only time nato acted in an offensive manner was with Serbia, and that was after nato controlled peace keepers were over run and the civilians that they were supposed to be protecting butchered.

As an American I am fine with us sending troops to help train the Ukrainians. I'm wish the country the best of luck in stomping their enemy in the civil war.

Now that the newly formed government has been established a couple months and they had free and open elections after the initial coup, the current Ukrainian government has every right to defend its borders.

a reply to: intrptr

so? what's the issue with that? we're helping iraq take territory back from isis, iraq is doing the bombing too you know.
as for what you say about others saying it not being war in those situations, you're right lets not sugar coat it, it is war but the thing is that such wars aren't considered serious wars, serious war is far crueler and destructive.

what we did in iraq and afghanistan were usurpation's to create client states and nothing more, much easier and more effective than taking land as it makes the locals feel independent and free of your grasp especially if they make money from it, and even more so if you fight by their side in defensive wars.

i'd say all has gone as planned so far even if it has the appearance of a mess, but well to deceive your enemy you must deceive your allies, yourself and even your own people, as for who this enemy is use your imagination, it could be anyone.

originally posted by: Expat888
Yaaawwwnnn.. same # .. different day ... as usual uncle scam sticking grubby little fingers in everybodies pie ....

We love dirty laundry!

a reply to: namehere

the thing is that such wars aren't considered serious wars, serious war is far crueler and destructive.

'Serous' war?

Dropping bombs is always serious…

a reply to: tadaman

Calm down, I just brought one vid… not the whole damn coalition.

a reply to: intrptr

I am calm. You are the one freaking out over what is a common occurrence that everyone does and has been doing.

If its a surprise to you, then relax. Its been going on for decades and the world hasnt ended yet.

Dont feel bad either. Just because some blame falls the way of your country doesnt mean you are a horrible person or that your country is evil....much like I dont think mine is.

Its cool bro. You guys drop bombs and encourage wars for profit that you benefit from like us,....the other side does too.

Pro tip....its human nature and the world we live in. Welcome.

a reply to: tadaman

Pro tip....its human nature and the world we live in. Welcome.

I haven't bombed anyone and that s*** ain't acceptable.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
Ukraine invited the US, and other allies, to assist them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Whether Russia likes it or not, Ukraine is NOT THEIRS. They do not get to decide what military allegiances Ukraine has, who goes there, who trains their military or who assists their people and government.

While I agree that the Ukraine isn't Russia's possession, it is being used as a proxy to 'poke the Bear' in it's backyard or sphere of influence. It is not wise, unless, all-out war is the mission.

I can't begin to understand the complexities of the situation there, much history. From what I've gathered from more knowlegdeable sources those in power in the Ukraine are old-fashioned nationalists. This is an old fight between fascism and a perverted form of socialism. This is WWII all over again - and I suspect the West has chosen, IMO, the wrong side.

These 'trainers' will be perceived by the Russians as an agressive move on the part of the west and a deliberate provocation. Whether or not, you like the Russian regime or not and again, I don't have enough information to judge, you can not deny that this is a prelude to a shooting war - that could take us all the way out.

originally posted by: bullcat
Interesting this is NOT under the flag of NATO, but the US flag.

Given all the huff puff coming out of NATO, they seem to be sitting back on this one, officially.

Included are 'trainers' from the UK and Canada.