Does Your Child's Teacher Brainwash Them?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
They indeed were hired to teach facts, but you as a parent made a conscious choice to put your child in an institution for roughly 8 hours a day their entire youth ... when they want to know something or are curious and inquisitive and seek guidance, it is often in this setting. I understand your position, but there are numerous jobs where the primary duty is and ought to be to state the facts (politicians, lawyers, doctors, etc) but we still seek their opinion. I know this is not the same thing but the statement brings me to this, if you place your kids in public or private school (16 year old step son here) then you have to extend a certain amount of trust and accept the fact that your child, regardless of how you feel on the matter, will get opinion, especially considering most of what the child questions will be in this setting.

I will clarify it is a fine line to walk. Again, it needs to be known it is opinion, and maybe why. Should it be done often, no, it should be done as little as possible, but I don't think it can be completely avoided. Does it happen? Yes, and I am sure on a bigger scale than any of us realize. Are there some absolutely horrible teachers out there, yes!!! ... does the system as a whole need to be re-worked, yes!!!

With your clarification, no a 6 year old should not be getting that opinion. A ten year old though I could see as fine, so long as I have instilled in them, critical thinking and a questioning attitude, which, I think if you are not talking to your child about adult things by around this time, you are already losing the battle for their mind because those adult things are all over their school and peers and proper education of things does not happen in those circles.

Bottom line, the education system as a whole is messed up, but I do think teachers giving some opinion can be helpful to a student, however, I mention again, it needs to be done carefully and as little as possible. Keep in mind, if its not your teachers opinion, it is something they see on t.v. or the internets, to me, the only good weapon is information itself.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, I know the dinosaur thing is more science than history, but history and our understanding of it changes in similar ways.

New things are always coming to light. Someone has a previously unknown box of letters in their attic ... archeologists discover a new tomb or battlefield ... things like that.

And, of course, the real devil -- our own context changes, so we see old events through new glasses and proceed to judge them that way. Was Mohammad a pedophile? In our modern context, yes; in the context of his times, not as much.

Were the Founders a bunch of racists? By the context of our times, maybe. Study their writings, and you see a much more complicated picture.

Were the Egyptian dynasties a bunch of hopelessly inbred fools? By the standards of our time, probably. But in their day, it was considered necessary to preserve the blood, so they married siblings and cousins.

So maybe the problem is that we do not teach these things in their own historical context, but try to transplant them into our own which skews them and makes them something other than what they really were.

That is one thing I love about history. What was once the right thing to do, is the wrong thing to do. Without their own specific class to explain all the details about the knowledge and times people lived in, the actions are twisted based upon today's standards. And here we are today, judging the actions in the Middle East...which is basically living in the past...by our standards (in the case of the USA). I've argued with people that maybe Saddam was right to rule as a vicious dictator because that may be what his people would understand. In the USA, in general...we look at other countries through our eyes and standards and don't seem to realize that our views are alien to their situations. Making us wrong, often.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
They indeed were hired to teach facts, but you as a parent made a conscious choice to put your child in an institution for roughly 8 hours a day their entire youth ... when they want to know something or are curious and inquisitive and seek guidance, it is often in this setting. I understand your position, but there are numerous jobs where the primary duty is and ought to be to state the facts (politicians, lawyers, doctors, etc) but we still seek their opinion. I know this is not the same thing but the statement brings me to this, if you place your kids in public or private school (16 year old step son here) then you have to extend a certain amount of trust and accept the fact that your child, regardless of how you feel on the matter, will get opinion, especially considering most of what the child questions will be in this setting.

I will clarify it is a fine line to walk. Again, it needs to be known it is opinion, and maybe why. Should it be done often, no, it should be done as little as possible, but I don't think it can be completely avoided. Does it happen? Yes, and I am sure on a bigger scale than any of us realize. Are there some absolutely horrible teachers out there, yes!!! ... does the system as a whole need to be re-worked, yes!!!

With your clarification, no a 6 year old should not be getting that opinion. A ten year old though I could see as fine, so long as I have instilled in them, critical thinking and a questioning attitude, which, I think if you are not talking to your child about adult things by around this time, you are already losing the battle for their mind because those adult things are all over their school and peers and proper education of things does not happen in those circles.

Bottom line, the education system as a whole is messed up, but I do think teachers giving some opinion can be helpful to a student, however, I mention again, it needs to be done carefully and as little as possible. Keep in mind, if its not your teachers opinion, it is something they see on t.v. or the internets, to me, the only good weapon is information itself.

Yes...and they will get the opinion of their peers, learn from that and make decisions based upon that. In my opinion, they shouldn't get opinions from the "fact staters" (eg. teachers) because it is then being "taught" to them by an authority figure who many children believe are to be respected and are older and therefore, are right.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Woah! Did we make that conscious decision? We are told which schools our children will attend, unless we have the luxury of being able to find the extra funding and/or time in our budgets to either homeschool or pay for private schooling.

Otherwise, there is precious little "choice" involved.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Greathouse

That is a stupid analogy, I ''can'' and I teach. I am very proficient at that which I do as a subject though my experience leads me to teach and it also suits my hours and lifestyle, I have a long summer holiday off for family.

I am very proficient at that which I do

Okay "which" do you do teach or excel at a business level?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I was thinking of Washington myself. He owned slaves, but wanted them freed. However, he refused to do so until his (or maybe Martha's) death because he was aware that they needed to be taught how to survive as freed men and women. The slaves were manumitted.

It's like the 3/5 Clause. It is frequently taught as though slave = black, and most slaves were black. However, if you read the text, it did not specifically cite any ethnicity except Native Americans I think. And in order to argue that it was targeted at blacks to dehumanize them, you would have to prove that all slaves were black and all black were slaves. Neither statement was true. What it, in fact was, was a political maneuver designed to keep the Southern contingent from overwhelming the Congress by counting blacks for the purpose of representation without letting those same blacks actually cast votes - the land owners would have done that. So the Southern land owning, slave owning class would have dominated the new nation without the 3/5 clause.

I was taught that lesson at least once in school. Most people are not taught that lesson, only that it the 3/5 Clause prove the illegitimacy of the COTUS and the Founders.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Yes, I understand that, which is why it needs to be made known when something is an opinion and not a fact. Again, I will make note that your child is exposed to opinion all the time by "fact staters" and seen as authority figures, your child is going to be influenced by peers no matter what you do, they are going to form opinions and thoughts that you do not like, they are likely to experiment with drugs and alcohol, and other things; this should not scare you if you are taking the time with your child to talk about things and teach things yourself, properly and appropriately get to your child before those you do not want to do. That is the point, what you want to avoid, cannot be avoided. Even if the penalties you want existed, and teachers were taught and trained hard not to ... opinion will slip in, it is human nature ... especially when one seeks guidance or clarification, opinion can be a good tool to teach one how to form an informed opinion; as a gun, it is who is brandishing that weapon that matters.

Personally, if you feel this hard about it, as I do other aspects of public school, I would pull your child out and look for a school of your liking or home school ... because as I said, no matter how much you want to avoid it, can't be done unless you go off-grid and are an anti-social family. I get your point, I truly do, I just think you are being slightly unrealistic in this day in age, caring and thoughtful of your and others children, and bringing up a good point of discussion for sure. We won't agree here totally, but I think your concern is valid, overall points as a whole I agree with, the system is messed, but realistically I can't blame anyone but myself for my child receiving opinion from a teacher when that's where I place them all day their entire youth ... bound to happen.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

So you do not see the difference between a peer who states an opinion as fact and a teacher who is an authority figure, one we all tell our children they should obey?

originally posted by: rickymouse
You don't think the government would spend all that money on school if it wasn't being used to condition kids do you? That is more important to them than us getting an education.

The US has 49.8 million students in public elementary (that's just elementary).

Do you have a better option of what to do with that many kids?

The biggest complaint I hear from parents is: "Why do they need to bring work home? Why can't the school do their job and teach the kids?"

I personally try to teach my kids as much diversity as their little brains can handle. I also make them do extra learning at home.

They're gonna think about what a teacher tells them. Its not a one-sided world.

a reply to: ketsuko
There is a clear difference, my point was your child (everyone’s) is getting opinion every day from authority figures, teachers cannot be singled out alone (although I get why). It sounds like your daughter is not even in 2nd grade but think of a 6th grader who has been hearing opinion on the news and internet that it is illegal to video record cops, has a run in with them fore being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but failed to cover their ass and are found guilty of whatever .. opinion caused that, but if it was stated as opinion, or the parent was proactive and covered the issue before it would ever become a problem, the child would know better.

By the way, I have taught my step son to question everything and everyone to include his mother and me, but to do so respectfully (which is not always the case with a 16 year old, met him when he was 11).

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Yes, I understand that, which is why it needs to be made known when something is an opinion and not a fact. Again, I will make note that your child is exposed to opinion all the time by "fact staters" and seen as authority figures, your child is going to be influenced by peers no matter what you do, they are going to form opinions and thoughts that you do not like, they are likely to experiment with drugs and alcohol, and other things; this should not scare you if you are taking the time with your child to talk about things and teach things yourself, properly and appropriately get to your child before those you do not want to do. That is the point, what you want to avoid, cannot be avoided. Even if the penalties you want existed, and teachers were taught and trained hard not to ... opinion will slip in, it is human nature ... especially when one seeks guidance or clarification, opinion can be a good tool to teach one how to form an informed opinion; as a gun, it is who is brandishing that weapon that matters.

Personally, if you feel this hard about it, as I do other aspects of public school, I would pull your child out and look for a school of your liking or home school ... because as I said, no matter how much you want to avoid it, can't be done unless you go off-grid and are an anti-social family. I get your point, I truly do, I just think you are being slightly unrealistic in this day in age, caring and thoughtful of your and others children, and bringing up a good point of discussion for sure. We won't agree here totally, but I think your concern is valid, overall points as a whole I agree with, the system is messed, but realistically I can't blame anyone but myself for my child receiving opinion from a teacher when that's where I place them all day their entire youth ... bound to happen.

You're misunderstanding me. My kids are well taught at home and are both 'A' students, on the honor role and with their own opinions that we debate often at home (way more often than I prefer). I'm not concerned for my own children's well being as much as pointing out what I have noticed as they were growing up. And yes...opinions are everywhere but there is a huge difference, at least to me, between their peers and their teachers.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

So you do not see the difference between a peer who states an opinion as fact and a teacher who is an authority figure, one we all tell our children they should obey?

Thank you!

a reply to: AllSourceIntel
I will also point out, I go through my step-son's books ahead of what they are covering in class and put post it notes in his text book or handouts correcting things here and there and pointing to sources of more accurate, up-to-date, and balanced material.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Yes, big difference between peers and teachers. I meant they are exposed to opinion by other authority figures such as cops, news, anyone they look up to, celebs, etc.

I am glad you are proactive with your children. I agree, I am concerned on the whole as well, but I think we can both agree, we would be going after a symptom, not the cause.

a reply to: Greathouse

I excel at business level and I also teach.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
By the way, I have taught my step son to question everything and everyone to include his mother and me, but to do so respectfully (which is not always the case with a 16 year old, met him when he was 11).

There you go. And importantly you included yourself.

I've lived a long time. I've learned we live in a society and we also have independent minds. It's important to accept both, be able to live in both, and know the difference.

Some are going to object to this. Each day I have my Kindergartner tell me about his day. If he objects I put him on a high stool in the middle of the room. He has no choice but to talk. I'm not going to have a kid who holds everything inside. He's going to learn to be open and talk to us. Before he becomes a teen, because then its too late.

If there ever is a problem with a teacher, I'm gonna know and handle it immediately.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Well then you probably teach business exclusively.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: rickymouse
You don't think the government would spend all that money on school if it wasn't being used to condition kids do you? That is more important to them than us getting an education.

The US has 49.8 million students in public elementary (that's just elementary).

Do you have a better option of what to do with that many kids?

The biggest complaint I hear from parents is: "Why do they need to bring work home? Why can't the school do their job and teach the kids?"

I personally try to teach my kids as much diversity as their little brains can handle. I also make them do extra learning at home.

They're gonna think about what a teacher tells them. Its not a one-sided world.

You are correct in everything you stated. But that doesn't change my opinion that a teacher should not impose their views as an authority to a student. They hold a position of power over a student as the person who is there to tell them truths they are to learn and be tested upon. Their personal opinions should remain just that. The students should be LEFT to make up their own minds, not instructed as to what decision they SHOULD make. It is one thing for a teacher to say "Yes, a Republican majority enacted this law". They don't need to add "And it is a really stupid law made by a bunch of old men with homophobic tendencies". As an example...not one that actually was said.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
Yes, big difference between peers and teachers. I meant they are exposed to opinion by other authority figures such as cops, news, anyone they look up to, celebs, etc.

I am glad you are proactive with your children. I agree, I am concerned on the whole as well, but I think we can both agree, we would be going after a symptom, not the cause.

Yes...it amazes me how many people don't understand the difference between the symptom of a problem and the cause. We are great with band-aids.

a reply to: Greathouse

Art mostly.