Questions Regarding Halal Practices

I just finished eating a Saffron Road; Lemongrass Basil Chicken box o' food that I picked up in the health food store recently.

I bought the dish for the healthiness and animal positive notes on the box and didn't notice the Halal stamp of approval until I was putting in the microwave.

I've done a bit of Googling on the subject as this is the first Halal meal that I've bought and while I'm now familiar with the basics of the practices, the searches were divided by either a slew of Islamic sites and an apparent war of pro/anti Halal that was difficult to ascertain which side was right/wrong.

I admit my biggest hypocrisy in life is remaining a carnivore and being anti-animal cruelty at the same time. I understand the best solution would be to go vegetarian in this regard and have eliminated some things like veal, lamb, and lobster from my diet but I don't see myself giving up bacon and meat in general. Kinda hate myself about that.

So, regarding this, I have a couple of questions to help me determine if purchasing Halal foods is something I can do in relatively good conscious:

1. I disapprove that the practice does this while the animal is still alive and aware, but aren't there a lot of butchers in Western(for an easy term) slaughter that also do not knock out the animals? Am I supporting a crueler slaughter by purchasing these?

2. I like the idea behind the animals being treated humanely and given "a good life", but what does that mean in Islamic terms?

3. *sighs out of fear of inciting thread conflict* I do NOT love the idea that every slaughter comes with a prayer to Allah. As an atheist, it just bothers me. But then, I've eaten "Kosher" foods with no issue and the thoughts that they were prepared better anyway.
Do these practices force these thanks to Allah as mandatory for manufacturers?

4. I know some manufacturers are using the Halal practices to add to their business, but I don't want my purchases going towards a religion or even worse, the claims that purchases go toward extremist groups. Are there some manufacturers to avoid? Is there a way to tell if they're supporting these groups?

Forgot to mention, the Saffron chicken dish was really quite delicious for a boxed microwave food.

Just type out the following words in Youtube under Google search.

Not one is better than the other one :

"Factory abbatoir."

No matter what meat we all eat, unfortunately the animal has to be sacrificed under whatever culture and country internal procedures regarding animal ethics are required.

One of the hardest parts of being a meat eater... But I for one am not going veggie...

We humans have evolved like this... (Each and everyone to their own choice)

I still stick to raising my own meat and hunting and sacrificing under the quickest and most humane methods as I see things.

Nibs

The animals are raised with more space to roam .. fed well - natural food not gmo steroid crap .. even though it sounds barbaric the method of killing them is better than how its done in western slaughterhouses .. all the profits of halal food go to the maker / producer not to any extremist groups .. often they will in accordance with islamic tradition donate to the less poor / unfortunate in their community who need it .. its also very strictly monitored and must pass stringent requirements to recieve halal certification .. also halal food isnt gmo modified or chemical filled .. best of all going by halal dishes Ive tried in past it tastes good .... also certification can be revoked if a product fails to meet standards as they do regular checks ...

I strongly feel that Halal (ritual slaughter) practice at the end of an animal’s life – i.e. the way it is slaughtered, is revolting, as the animals are not stunned prior to slaughter. For that reason alone I will not touch meat with a Halal stamp.

Halal panders to religious sensibilities at the expensive of the animal’s welfare.

In the UK, animal welfare practices are generally very high. I know in some other “less developed” countries standards of animal welfare are shocking and this is often cultural, and based on ignorance and poverty. However, the UK allows Halal practices in abattoirs and this is a direct concession to religious whining. I feel Halal slaughter should be banned and sod the religious sensibilities from Muslims and Jews. Halal is banned in Denmark and other countries and I urge the UK to follow suit.

My advice. Boycott Halal where it is found and DISCOVER where your meat comes from.

Forgot .. even seen some korean food now that is halal certified .. as is cadbury chocolate ..

originally posted by: gottaknow
1. I disapprove that the practice does this while the animal is still alive and aware, but aren't there a lot of butchers in Western(for an easy term) slaughter that also do not knock out the animals? Am I supporting a crueler slaughter by purchasing these?

You have no way to know if non-halal animals are slaughtered in better way. If you really disapprove ritual killing (which isn't very different from other slaughter practices), maybe eat pork since Muslim don't eat them?

originally posted by: gottaknow
2. I like the idea behind the animals being treated humanely and given "a good life", but what does that mean in Islamic terms?

Nothing. Halal is only regarding the slaughtering. What you are looking for is meat from local farmers, not from industrial companies.

originally posted by: gottaknow
3. *sighs out of fear of inciting thread conflict* I do NOT love the idea that every slaughter comes with a prayer to Allah. As an atheist, it just bothers me. But then, I've eaten "Kosher" foods with no issue and the thoughts that they were prepared better anyway.
Do these practices force these thanks to Allah as mandatory for manufacturers?

Yes, exactly like the Kosher food you tried too.

originally posted by: gottaknow
4. I know some manufacturers are using the Halal practices to add to their business, but I don't want my purchases going towards a religion or even worse, the claims that purchases go toward extremist groups. Are there some manufacturers to avoid? Is there a way to tell if they're supporting these groups?

Manufacturers are not "Islamic", they simply follow the Halal trend to get more costumers. The profits are for the company only don't worry and the company is most likely 100% western.

a reply to: gottaknow

Hey, I can try to answer your questions. But first I'll explain what Halal foods means. "Halal" is simply what's allowable for a Muslim to eat (it means "permissible"). The only restrictions explicitly placed on foods in the Qur'an is in Sura 2, verse 173 (quran.com...):

He hath forbidden you only carrion, and blood, and swineflesh, and that which hath been immolated to (the name of) any other than Allah. But he who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Indirectly, we're forbidden from eating human because we're supposed to clean then bury a person without damaging the body. Because of this, autopsies & organ donations have traditionally been forbidden. However, many different denominations & local interpretations add a lot of other restrictions to what is "Halal" (including some which simply follow the Kosher restrictions). Since we're not supposed to make animals suffer, you have the different methods of killing them that you've been researching. Now for your questions.

1. I'm guessing you're talking about the "slit the animal's throat & let it bleed out" method? If so, the animal typically passes out in a few minutes & doesn't feel anything. It also makes it where we don't ingest its blood.

2. Basically, it's free range farming, no animal abuse of any kind, and sometimes they're allowed to have offspring. All businesses are different though (as are the regions & interpretations), so you can never be 100% sure. But to give an example, my Muslim friends from Somalia & Sudan were horrified when I first showed them American factory farms. Especially the chickens in small cages (for eggs), the cows in large cages, and some other chickens crammed together in small cells. They'd always done free range, even though they didn't know that term in English.

3. Yes. Look back at the quote I listed from the Qur'an. Though Allah simply means God and Muslims can eat Kosher foods (which have much stricter conditions). So if you don't have a problem with Kosher, you shouldn't have a problem with Halal

4. That I have no clue of. But remember, there are between 1.6 & 1.8 BILLION Muslims in the world right now. Needless to say, the vast majority have nothing to do with extremism. In fact, 75-90% of the victims of Wahabi extremists are other Muslims (the number depends on the conflict). So no, you don't have to worry about that.

Also, I'm not sure of which country you're in, but here's some info. After 9/11, the US did a massive clampdown on Islamic charities, even ones with no connections to questionable groups. And contrary to popular hysteria, the US keeps tabs on international Islamic charities. I know this because my parents have had to deal w/govt crap for giving money to peaceful charities like the Red Crescent (the Islamic version of the Red Cross). So if you're in America, I wouldn't worry about it.

Hope that helps. Oh & I became a vegetarian 4 yrs ago partially for the same reasons you listed before the questions.

originally posted by: paraphi
I strongly feel that Halal (ritual slaughter) practice at the end of an animal’s life – i.e. the way it is slaughtered, is revolting, as the animals are not stunned prior to slaughter. For that reason alone I will not touch meat with a Halal stamp.

Halal panders to religious sensibilities at the expensive of the animal’s welfare.

In the UK, animal welfare practices are generally very high. I know in some other “less developed” countries standards of animal welfare are shocking and this is often cultural, and based on ignorance and poverty. However, the UK allows Halal practices in abattoirs and this is a direct concession to religious whining. I feel Halal slaughter should be banned and sod the religious sensibilities from Muslims and Jews. Halal is banned in Denmark and other countries and I urge the UK to follow suit.

My advice. Boycott Halal where it is found and DISCOVER where your meat comes from.

Maybe you should visit a traditional slaughter house which is NON Halal...?

I have on quite a few occasions in different countries because of my job which involves animal welfare... and I can tell you that the conditions for the animals are NOOOOOO better...

Why not at the same time visit a GVT approved Halal slaughter house where animals ARE stunned prior to exsanguination... (depending of course on your countries laws?)

By the way, I hold no religious beliefs in case you might ask.

You would be equally revolted to know that us "devoloped" countries are just as bad as those countries that you call less developed because their culture is different to yours when it comes to amimal ethics and sacrifice for human consumption.

Do you eat meat... do you often stop and consider how that animal (chicken, pig, cow) was sacrificed to satisfy your or your family needs?

Nibs

originally posted by: Nibbles

originally posted by: paraphi
I strongly feel that Halal (ritual slaughter) practice at the end of an animal’s life – i.e. the way it is slaughtered, is revolting, as the animals are not stunned prior to slaughter. For that reason alone I will not touch meat with a Halal stamp.

Halal panders to religious sensibilities at the expensive of the animal’s welfare.

In the UK, animal welfare practices are generally very high. I know in some other “less developed” countries standards of animal welfare are shocking and this is often cultural, and based on ignorance and poverty. However, the UK allows Halal practices in abattoirs and this is a direct concession to religious whining. I feel Halal slaughter should be banned and sod the religious sensibilities from Muslims and Jews. Halal is banned in Denmark and other countries and I urge the UK to follow suit.

My advice. Boycott Halal where it is found and DISCOVER where your meat comes from.

Maybe you should visit a traditional slaughter house which is NON Halal...? Why not at the same time a GVT approved Halal slaughter house where animals ARE stunned prior to exsanguination... (depending of course on your countries laws?)

You would be equally revolted to know that us "devoloped" countries are just as bad as those countries that you call less developed because their culture is different to yours when it comes to amimal ethics and sacrifice for human consumption.

Do you eat meat... do you often stop and consider how that animal was sacrificed to satisfy your or your familys needs?

Nibs

Exactly. Talking about "revolting slaughtering practices" is hypocrisy when coming from people eating meat.

People in the city don't like to be reminded that the meat in their plate comes from an animal. They like only their meat when it's nicely prepared and everything. If there is a bit of blood? "Yew, disgusting!"

Newsflash, you are still eating meat, from a dead animal.


Everyone living in the countryside, used to farming or hunting knows there is no cruelty when killing an animal for food.

It's not more "respectful" to stun the animal before. When you kill an animal, you kill an animal. Stunning him doesn't suddenly makes it more acceptable.

Either you are OK with killing animals, either you are not and become vegetarian. Imagine the slaughtering practice changes anything about the life of a dead animal is ridiculous and a way to avoid facing the reality of the killing of an animal.


I hate this urban hypocrisy that it's OK to eat meat but not to slaughter or hunt animals. There is no crualty behind killing an animal for food.

Halal practice if anything is even more respectful by thanking the animal and the universe for its food. IMHO at least there was a thought for the animal, unlike "normal" industrial meat production.

a reply to: Nibbles

Abattoirs are grim places, but no need to make them more grim by not stunning the animals prior to slaughter.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Nibbles

Abattoirs are grim places, but no need to make them more grim by not stunning the animals prior to slaughter.

Maybe hunters should stun birds before shooting them?

Maybe lions should sing a lullaby to a gazelle before killing it?



I understand where this opinion comes from but it doesn't hold up with the reality of our lives. When we eat meat, we cause death. That's it.

Be thankful for the animal, or don't eat meat anymore, but the way the animal is killed stunned or not doesn't change anything from a moral perspective. It's still killing, and it's not cruel. The farmer isn't cruel when he chops the chicken head. He does what must be done to eat meat.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Nibbles

Abattoirs are grim places, but no need to make them more grim by not stunning the animals prior to slaughter.

Paraphi...

Do you eat meat, have you ever visited both types of GVT approved slaughter houses?

Or are you just going to keep using the "not stunning animals prior to sacrifice" as a stereotype answer because of what you have "heard" of around you?

With respect to you : Go visit one of those places first before jumping to naive conclusions.

Nibs

All this talk about food .. getting hungry ... guess get up from hammock .. catch chicken and fix dinner ..

originally posted by: Expat888
All this talk about food .. getting hungry ... guess get up from hammock .. catch chicken and fix dinner ..

*hands Expat a meat cleaver*

Nibs

I appreciate the helpful and valuable information from everyone.

I agree that my hypocrisy is in issue unto itself and still, I try to find some medium ground with my decision to eat meat in support of a morally conscious procedure for animals. It sucks that there's no bright lining there really and I've seen/read a lot about the slaughterhouses/abattoirs (cool word, btw) in the past.

I can see how it would be ridiculous of me to take issue with the prayers to Allah and not with Kosher food. I'd rather everyone just thanked the farmers or the animals themselves, but whatever. That's something I can let go.

I try to take my consumerism seriously and boycott when I find it conflicts with my personal morality. In the world of grocery shopping, it seems like there's always a new decision to be made like this and I don't want to make the wrong one.

@enlightenedservant: TY. The paragraph about the charities was especially helpful.

a reply to: Nibbles

1. Yes, I eat meat. I can trace all my meat via my butcher. I live in rural UK and have kept livestock.
2. No, never been to an abattoir, but know that they are improving places due to the activities of animal rights groups, many who I support.
3. I passionately believe - along with thousands of others, that ritual slaughter of livestock compromises an animals welfare.

you?

> RSPCA
> A review
> Denmark bans Halal sluaghter

originally posted by: gottaknow
I agree that my hypocrisy is in issue unto itself and still, I try to find some medium ground with my decision to eat meat in support of a morally conscious procedure for animals. It sucks that there's no bright lining there really and I've seen/read a lot about the slaughterhouses/abattoirs (cool word, btw) in the past.

Favor local meat production which is better in all aspects (but accept to pay a bit more). Don't encourage the industrial meat production model. Easy as that.

originally posted by: gottaknow
I'd rather everyone just thanked the farmers or the animals themselves, but whatever.

Nothing prevents anyone from doing it.

originally posted by: paraphi
3. I passionately believe - along with thousands of others, that ritual slaughter of livestock compromises an animals welfare.

What does the welfare of a dead animal mean?

Don't get me wrong, I can understand your fight. I just believe it's completely missing the true problem: the welfare of the animal during its life.

I explained where my livestock comes from earlier up in the thread Paraphi.

Home bred and hunted.

ETA : Free running home bred and sacrificed as quickly as possible under the best humane conditions without causing unnecessary stress before sacrifice.

Nibs