Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??

a reply to: Kitana

!) The bible is the Word of God, for His people.

After the bible god is the creator, the only creator. He created all and every people without exception.
So logically ALL people are HIS people.

2) people have free will

Proverbs 16:9 ESV
"The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."

I' ll call that a draw, you can have free will. But you can't establish it.

3) Not all people want to be God's, and God forces no man

See answer 1.

4) if a Buddhist wants to be a Buddhist and a Muslim wants to be a Muslim then it is their choice. Christianity is not something forced on anyone. If God wanted to force people, he would not have created us with free will.

1 Samuel 15:3,8
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)

5) ALL people are given a chance to follow, or not follow.

Deut 20
"17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; "


Good choice here. Seriously. Sounds like ISIS to me.

a reply to: Kitana

We are under a New Covenant, and it gets fairly well in depth, but we do not follow levitical law. Do you want to understand why? It is a lot, and a very lengthy topic.. this is why I ask. I will only discuss it if you really want to understand it.

You remember what i said in my first post in this thread?

My own words: (back in page 47)

Time for some soul searching, let's see, what are my thoughts about an organisation/religion, that

-that teaches the bible as the truth, and the only truth which has to be taken by the word, but as soon there is critique they come up with Phrases like: that s just the old testament, that has no value.

Prophetic, isn't it?

Speaking of my first post:

I adressed the catholic church's

- Nazi Collaboration (thousands of victims)
- Inquisition (thousands of victims)
- Witchhunt (thousands of victims)
- Child molestations and rape (thousands of victims)

5 pages ago. No one picked up on these topics.
This silence is very telling.

It tells me either:

- christians are Ok with it
- christians ignore it

- (or no one read my post :-)

Which one is it? And why?

a reply to: Kitana
Do you know what indoctrination is? You exhibit signs of heavy indoctrination like the bible is the answer to humankinds problems. If it was the world wouldn't be like this. Religions are corporations that need cash flow, and keeping you believing you need them is there business model.

a reply to: svetlana84

Freewill verses predestination, difficult subject as both are spoken of in the bible, so lets touch on that a moment then.

When both are talked about:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

This definitely indicates the ability to refuse God. Therefore, it is quite indicative as mankind having freewill.

then we see this:

Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

which indicates us having no choice, and no freedom.

But here is the thing, there is a little of both. See, a God who knows all things past, present and future, prior to the future happening knows what we will, or will not choose, and under what circumstances we would choose it. And he knew all this, prior to even creating us.

So, we have a choice, we at the very least make a choice. It is a choice known to God, before we were created. Here is a good example:


“See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods that you have not known.

So, we clearly are given opportunity to choose, but not everyone will choose Him. The ones who do choose Him, He gives the right to be called children of God.

"He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

The reason for predestination, really is an issue of pride. I cannot look at you and say I deserved salvation, I cannot look at anyone and say I am better, or deserved more, or did anything right. I made all the wrong choices for so long its not funny. I am not the reason I was offered grace and mercy. HE is.

He speaks of His people, and his word and his law being for those who do choose Him. We have a choice, but it is not something in our control. Everything that we do, everything that happens in our lives, leads us here.

" in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

But some day everyone has a choice to make and what they choose is known to God. There is a middle ground, a path between the two extremes, so that no one can say salvation was because of themselves, but so all credit goes to God, and not the man, and so we truly understand the power of God.

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."

a reply to: Kitana
Your arguments all assume the unbelievably illogical validity in ancient books. Stories, with no archeological evidence to support them, are myths by definition. The wisdom is in the stories, but the stories aren't history.

a reply to: svetlana84

No I have not gone through the thread in its entirety, the first few pages and the last couple. With very long threads that is what I do and decide whether or not to jump in at that starting point. So I have not read but a couple of your posts.

As for the inquisition, it was more than just a little wrong, and very much not christian nor biblical behavior. Same goes with the catholic priests doing harm to any child, I would like to see all prosecuted for those crimes, and they are crimes. Same goes for the witchhunts back long ago.

I am not catholic by the way, very different school of thought. Just thought you should no, not every christian even knows much about the catholic church. They were seen as the anti-christ and a very evil institution, it is where the protestant faith came out of, it came out of much persecution at the hands of the catholic church.

Many, many Christians gave their lives fighting against it and held firm to the christian faith through it all. It's why we are protestants (not catholic) today.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

You don't have to believe in it. I do. We can agree to disagree! Its very easy to do that.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

I don't give money, nor do I receive money, from any religious institution. I simply believe in the bible, and follow to the best of my ability. I am poor, not wealthy. No one targets me for any reason.

I hold a belief. I am fine for others to disagree.

a reply to: svetlana84

You either want me to explain what the new covenant is and why, or you want to disagree with me beforehand. Which would you like it to be?

It sounds as if you wish to simply disagree, so on that note I will just take my leave if this is what you wish.

a reply to: Kitana
Do you have a pastor?

a reply to: Kitana

Thanks for your replies.

On a side note: I would appreciate when quoting bible verses to put the source next to it, just so everybody can look it up themselves.

I see you come from another line than the catholic church.
So we have to differentiate here.

I shot against the catholic church because they seem to be ones that blame to be the right ones (as nearly every religion does).
But there the problems get obvious. If even those who believe in the same scripture can agree on it....what does it say about the scripture?

In my books there the possibilities:

- The bible is the Word of god. has to be taken word by word. no discussions. ultimate truth.

- The bible is some sort of soft guideline, which leads to open interpretation and everybody can cherrypick whatever suits his views. And therefore it looses all credibility in my books.

Version 2 even leads to fights in between christian cults/sects/groups. Which essentially means even christians hate christians.

I guess even the catholic church would say you (your line of christianity) has fallen from god. Since the pope is a direct descendant and therefore unfailable according to the catholics?

a reply to: Kitana

That's a long and differntiated answer.
And you deliberatly focused on one out out of 5 topics. 5 topics youself have brought up.

Care to elaborate why you left the other 4 topics of?
Or you have an answe on these too?

a reply to: Kitana

About the new covenant.

To be honest, i fear there will be a very long and complicated answer to that (as you implied in the post before on this topic). That's why evaded the question.

My stance was, exactly that - that christians tend to believe in the bible word by word. but as soon as crititue arises suddenly the old testament has no values anymore.

So, to cut to the point:

In your line of faith (BTW is it protestant - did i get that correctly?):

- What's the take on the old testament? Valid or not? A simple yes/no answer.
- If it i s not that simple: which parts are valuable, which parts aren't and why?

a reply to: Kitana
We just have different approaches and different understanding of the bible. Ive read it. Im more laid back but my faith is strong. I have been learning a lot lately about how wrong I used to be. I look at it as the Holy Spirit giving me the truth, and it makes my faith stronger. Not you, but some people feel if they are wrong about one thing or if the bible has one inconsistency it renders it useless. I think that's a weak faith. Doubt is humble.(no comment on faith just saying both can be humble) The more you admit to yourself how little you know, the more open you'll be to questioning church doctrine and developing your own independent personal relationship with The Most High God.

This is really funny/ironic/sad at the same time:

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the site of Christ's burial and resurrection in Israel -the holiest place of all christendom.

Guess who has the key to it? Yes, a muslim.

Simply because all the good christians fight each other so hardcore that physical conflicts occur so regularly that the police hast to intervene.

Why a Muslim now holds the key to Christendom's greatest shrine

I wonder what Jesus would say to this sort of behaviour ?

Is it "an eye for an eye" or rather "turn them the other cheek aswell"?



So, to finally answer the thread's question: Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??
Yes, other christians.

a reply to: svetlana84
Fascinating I didn't know that, but I believe it.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

nor do any Christians to say "This person can't enter heaven, nor can that person over there"

Actually, yes - many Christians do say exactly that.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

nor do any Christians to say "This person can't enter heaven, nor can that person over there"

Actually, yes - many Christians do say exactly that.

Then they are not obedient Christians.
No man has the authority to judge someone as to their qualifications to enter heaven, or not to enter, or to be sent to hell. Only Christ does.