Why we collectively may not discover life in the universe.

I have a disturbing thought about the discovery of life in the universe, possibly in the near future.

It involves the possibility of a secret agreement among countries of the world, irregardless of direct technical contribution, over the official release of any nation discovering evidence of life in the universe, and it would be a group decision to release that information, if it occurred.

A hypothetical scenario could be had with the Dawn mission around Ceres.

Suppose, and again, this is a scenario; that on board that vehicle, there were a few instruments not officially listed.

These instruments were put on there solely for extremely close scrutiny of anything that came up in the general imagery cameras. The release of information from this enhanced imagery would be up to the "committee", should circumstances arise that they may reveal something astounding.

One of the instruments, is a Schmidt Cassegrain, much like an 8"" earth based telescope, akin to a Meade or Celestron.

As the bright spots of Ceres approach the best oblique view, engineers in the control room turn that telescope on to the largest bright spot, that many suspect may be self-illuminated.

What they see boggles their minds, they have to get up out of their seats for a few minutes, just to comprehend what is on the monitor screens.

It looks like a city... a city under a translucent dome. What appear to be streets, paths, with lighting that follows their course... Huge buildings, apparent movement of vehicles....In an instant, they know we are certainly not alone.

Now, how is that information going to be released?.. or a bigger question; will it be released?

The "committee" is going to be gathered. They are going to be shown the evidence, and their job is to decide if the rest of the world can currently handle information like this, and basically is it the time to reveal such an astounding revelation? .. or would they say that currently, it could likely result in world upheaval, and they would reject the release of this information based upon this analysis.

Personally, I think this "committee" and secret agreement exist, and the only way we, as the public, would get this information is if they wanted us to.

The world runs on the powers of wealth, religion and politics. Disruptions in world stock markets, the overall belief systems of many people, and stability of governments may hinge on that decision, and we can be certain, it will not be taken lightly.

So, the ultimate question is, can we really handle it? ... and this means all of us. What do you think?

a reply to: charlyv

Then this ''committee'' makes their decision:

Agent 1: ''Know those ''dead planet'' images we shot in Nevada last year?''

Agent 2: ''Yeah, I'll get them straight away and inform NASA to put them out.''

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: charlyv

Then this ''committee'' makes their decision:

Agent 1: ''Know those ''dead planet'' images we shot in Nevada last year?''

Agent 2: ''Yeah, I'll get them straight away and inform NASA to put them out.''

That is certainly the hard line, but I would hope that such a decision could be made in as an objective method as possible. That in itself might be impossible, but there is always the hope that the public can handle it, and that overall consensus would be measurable.

originally posted by: charlyv
I have a disturbing thought about the discovery of life in the universe, possibly in the near future.

It involves the possibility of a secret agreement among countries of the world, irregardless of direct technical contribution, over the official release of any nation discovering evidence of life in the universe, and it would be a group decision to release that information, if it occurred.

A hypothetical scenario could be had with the Dawn mission around Ceres.

Suppose, and again, this is a scenario; that on board that vehicle, there were a few instruments not officially listed.

These instruments were put on there solely for extremely close scrutiny of anything that came up in the general imagery cameras. The release of information from this enhanced imagery would be up to the "committee", should circumstances arise that they may reveal something astounding.

One of the instruments, is a Schmidt Cassegrain, much like an 8"" earth based telescope, akin to a Meade or Celestron.

As the bright spots of Ceres approach the best oblique view, engineers in the control room turn that telescope on to the largest bright spot, that many suspect may be self-illuminated.

What they see boggles their minds, they have to get up out of their seats for a few minutes, just to comprehend what is on the monitor screens.

It looks like a city... a city under a translucent dome. What appear to be streets, paths, with lighting that follows their course... Huge buildings, apparent movement of vehicles....In an instant, they know we are certainly not alone.

Now, how is that information going to be released?.. or a bigger question; will it be released?

The "committee" is going to be gathered. They are going to be shown the evidence, and their job is to decide if the rest of the world can currently handle information like this, and basically is it the time to reveal such an astounding revelation? .. or would they say that currently, it could likely result in world upheaval, and they would reject the release of this information based upon this analysis.

Personally, I think this "committee" and secret agreement exist, and the only way we, as the public, would get this information is if they wanted us to.

The world runs on the powers of wealth, religion and politics. Disruptions in world stock markets, the overall belief systems of many people, and stability of governments may hinge on that decision, and we can be certain, it will not be taken lightly.

So, the ultimate question is, can we really handle it? ... and this means all of us. What do you think?

What do I think...I think that something like this would be risky at best for the "powers". There is nothing preventing someone from intercepting their signal and releasing the video on their own.

There is also a wee problem with the spacecraft...typically they are designed with extreme economy. In that there is no wasted space, no extra weight...adding the telescope would add at least another 50lbs to the payload...(aprox weight of a Celestron 8" telescope).

Anyway, remember there are "A" holes like us out here that won't sit still for something half done, and I'm sorry, I can't give government enough credit to think they wouldn't "half do it"...which means that ATS would probably "see" through it.

Course, then again, there is their program of obfuscation...

We will never discover life else where in the universe. However those beings out there will come to us. And they are not aliens as they would have us believe.

They arrive to deceive us and to rule us

a reply to: tanka418

What do I think...I think that something like this would be risky at best for the "powers". There is nothing preventing someone from intercepting their signal and releasing the video on their own.

There is also a wee problem with the spacecraft...typically they are designed with extreme economy. In that there is no wasted space, no extra weight...adding the telescope would add at least another 50lbs to the payload...(aprox weight of a Celestron 8" telescope).

Anyway, remember there are "A" holes like us out here that won't sit still for something half done, and I'm sorry, I can't give government enough credit to think they wouldn't "half do it"...which means that ATS would probably "see" through it.

Course, then again, there is their program of obfuscation...

Built for space, and many satellites have catadioptric imagers, the weight goes down to probably less than 10lbs. They use carbon fiber and aluminum parts. The mirrors are thin and reinforced, not like a ground giant glass blank in a Celestron.

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: tanka418

What do I think...I think that something like this would be risky at best for the "powers". There is nothing preventing someone from intercepting their signal and releasing the video on their own.

There is also a wee problem with the spacecraft...typically they are designed with extreme economy. In that there is no wasted space, no extra weight...adding the telescope would add at least another 50lbs to the payload...(aprox weight of a Celestron 8" telescope).

Anyway, remember there are "A" holes like us out here that won't sit still for something half done, and I'm sorry, I can't give government enough credit to think they wouldn't "half do it"...which means that ATS would probably "see" through it.

Course, then again, there is their program of obfuscation...

Built for space, and many satellites have catadioptric imagers, the weight goes down to probably less than 10lbs. They use carbon fiber and aluminum parts. The mirrors are thin and reinforced, not like a ground giant glass blank in a Celestron.

Actually the telescope by Celestron that I'm going to use is a catadioptric system. Housed in an aluminum Optical tube. So, you would loose some weight with the carbon fiber, but none of the "volume". By the way; that 8 inch telescope will resolve about 1 km at moon distances...about 0.6 arcseconds.

ETA: A 30 inch telescope is only about $120.00 an hour...get the timing down real close, and look for yourself...

originally posted by: charlyv
I have a disturbing thought about the discovery of life in the universe, possibly in the near future.

It involves the possibility of a secret agreement among countries of the world, irregardless of direct technical contribution, over the official release of any nation discovering evidence of life in the universe, and it would be a group decision to release that information, if it occurred.

A hypothetical scenario could be had with the Dawn mission around Ceres.

Suppose, and again, this is a scenario; that on board that vehicle, there were a few instruments not officially listed

Its impossible to put stuff on a scientific probe like this without hundreds of people knowing. I could show you the behind the scenes discussion that goes on over every resistor and capacitor selection. It would astound you how many people are involved in the process of designing, building, launching and operating a probe like Dawn.

"Secret equipment" is great for conspiracy theory but the reality is that every instrument on a mission like Dawn is accounted for.

Beyond that, your premise is flawed in the sense that never is long time. 50 years from now school children will send probes to Ceres or maybe even visit themselves.

a reply to: JadeStar

Can you humor us on how many people are involved? I agree with you but it would be interesting to hear. Well unless there happens to be some missions with a limited amount of people involved then maybe it is possible to have "secret cameras" installed.

I think there are other humans in the universe that look just like us. We were seeded by other civilizations.

The a-hole elites on this planet feel they have the duty or right to with hold this information for their own personal gain. We live a lie because of a select few and their maniacal egos.

originally posted by: solarstorm
I think there are other humans in the universe that look just like us. We were seeded by other civilizations.

While I tend to agree that Earth is not the only "home" for a Human Species, I don't think there was any "seeding". Seeding isn't necessary, Science has found that the precursors of DNA can be transported by asteroids, comets, etc., and that DNA and evolution are not a random process. It seems that there are some structures that Nature actually "favors", thus they are easier to build...like DNA.

So, all that Earth has is "Earth's own", not brought here from afar...this does not rule out modification either deliberate or accidental.

The a-hole elites on this planet feel they have the duty or right to with hold this information for their own personal gain. We live a lie because of a select few and their maniacal egos.

I tend to agree with this statement, though, I think it is more like they believe it is their "Right", when in fact it is not.

Unfortunately there is little by way of viable evidence to support this hypothesis. So we sit by, watch, don't forget t record, maybe that bit of data will fall into our sphere.

a reply to: charlyv

The universes are teeming with life you don't need a corrupt government to tell you something that is blatantly obvious, and if people are unable to apply critical thinking then what does it really matter, trusting your government is a sign that you are insane, the british government even came out and said trusting them was a stupid thing to do when it was discovered they had lied to the public over the pensions thing that I can't be bothered to remember now.

a reply to: charlyv

Now, how is that information going to be released?.. or a bigger question; will it be released?

Why would it not be released?

Why would the people who discovered life on another planet keep it to themselves?

If an announcement were made that life on another planet had been discovered....what do you think would happen?.....would you go to work tomorrow?.....if not..... why not?

Finding life on another planet is the holy grail of science, if and when it's found I'm pretty sure we will be told in a heartbeat!

Very thought provoking.....

But I would Like to announce.......I HAVE FOUND LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE!!!!

Yes Real Life in the Universe!!

When I woke up...alive....I looked out my front door.

I saw, Birds and Trees and weeds and insects and dogs and humans and...

Then I looked up to the skys to all that heavenly glory and know there are billions of planets out there, many just like Earth.....

Is there life in the Universe?

Of course there is Bloody life in the Universe, we are here aren't we??

If we are here, then life is Everywhere that the environment is suitable for that life, even in places we dont consider suitable for life...as we know it Jim.

Just as we find on Earth.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: JadeStar

Can you humor us on how many people are involved?

It depends on the spacecraft and complexity of the systems and subsystems but I can tell you that no less than 50 people and quite often well over hundreds of people are involved before even the smallest probe gets off the ground.

Here's an example of just one document from an upcoming planet hunting mission that had to be signed off on by 6 people

I agree with you but it would be interesting to hear.

I can show you countless other documents from the same mission with other people's names.

Every mission has an engineering team, a science team, a spacecraft operations team and a launch team.

Well unless there happens to be some missions with a limited amount of people involved then maybe it is possible to have "secret cameras" installed.

It just isn't possible too many people have to sign off on things not to mention test the cameras etc. Maybe in the movies, but not in reality.

And like I've said and others have pointed out, finding life in the universe would be a HUGE find and would see space exploration funding increased as a result, so the people you'd accuse of hiding it would be the least likely to WANT to hide it.

a reply to: JadeStar

Not unless they were paid off...or one individual from each team was a mole. If that's not plausible, then everyone involved would have to swear under oath to keep the mission concealed. With so many people involved you would end up having an entire organization dedicated to secret space missions. There are conspiracies of a shadow government and/or a secret space program.

Do you think a secret space program exists? With say a secret branch of the air force or marines?

Does NASA or any another space agency have missions that aren't 100% public and require a high level of clearance?

originally posted by: game over man
Do you think a secret space program exists?

No. Because you can't exactly hide the sky or what goes on in it.

Does NASA or any another space agency have missions that aren't 100% public and require a high level of clearance?

This is more of a question for Jim Oberg but other than when the Shuttle used to launch DOD payloads I can't think of any. NASA is probably the most open branch of the US government, from what I can tell from my brief visits to a couple NASA facilities.

a reply to: charlyv

There was a guy that worked on the Mars rovers spirit and opportunity that handled communications and his friend was an encryption expert, they found a secret device somehow transmitting instantaneously during Mars rise when the rovers transmit to satellites. The thing is that there's a speed of light transmit delay, so how is it that information is being secretly downloaded instantly? Well the guy wrote a blog about how complicated it was and found that the data being sent was thumbnail images from the entire album each day that could be deleted before the team saw them. He dug deeper and they ended up destroying JPL computer stations and firing someone else by accident. He later quit but his entire log is online and many programmers and tech savvy professionals has looked it over to determine he's the real deal. So I don't doubt that they're still lying to us.

a reply to: JadeStar

What do you mean we can't hide the sky? There are terrorist attacks using airplanes, there are missing airplanes, there are meteorites we didn't know were coming, we have asteroids we don't know were coming. What do amateur astronomers observe, other than an announced meteor shower? I have my serious doubts that even amateur astronomers can see EVERYTHING.

Can GPS or any type of electronic/radio technology communication go dark? Can an "anomaly" happen and things go dark and then come back on?

So Nasa and all the way down to amateur astronomers can identify a spy satellite? How do they do that? What is the point of having a spy satellite then? Or do you think things can get launched undetected by many?

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: JadeStar

What do you mean we can't hide the sky? There are terrorist attacks using airplanes, there are missing airplanes, there are meteorites we didn't know were coming, we have asteroids we don't know were coming. What do amateur astronomers observe, other than an announced meteor shower?

While nobody can "see" everything...Amateur Astronomers can and do observe things like the Sun, asteroids, meteors, lightcurves of distant stars looking for evidence of exoplanets. eclipses...satellites, spy and otherwise. Or indeed virtually anything off planet they wish to look at, and of course is visible.

Amateur Astronomers are capable of and actually do; real science. They can collect data from stars, and analyze it much the same as the professional...and, please do not underestimate their equipment.

I have database tables with 100's of thousands of stars, I have another table with millions of "space" objects...so basically; "what do want to look at?"