Drinking and driving...a different perspective...

I want to begin by saying that in no way shape or form do I encourage or support driving while under the influence of anything that might diminish driving ability.

That having been said, after seeing someone pulled over doing a field sobriety test the other night I got to thinking about something. And it led me to start this thread.

Currently there are DUI laws in every state with varying levels of intoxication considered the legal limit. Some are seemingly high compared to others, but they all supposedly serve the same purpose - making the streets safer by keeping dangerous drivers off the road. And that is the problem I have with this system. It doesn't work.

Imagine two drivers. Driver 1 is the best driver in the world. He is a natural behind the wheel. You could drop him in an Indy car and he would win the 500 easily. He has perfect reflexes, intuition, attention, common sense, vision, hearing, and any other skill or ability that will make someone a great driver. In short, he is the perfect driver. Then there is driver 2. This is a guy who considers himself lucky if he can get the cereal in the bowl on the first try. He is well intentioned and a nice person, but he isn't too bright, sluggish, has a remarkably short attention span, is easily distracted, clumsy, and couldn't find his butt with both hands if you gave him a mirror and a map.

Now, on any day of the week driver 1 would run circles around driver 2. And on any day of the week driver 2 is a danger to himself and the people around him where driver 1 is safe as a baby in a cradle. But, if we give a couple glasses of beer to driver 1, all of a sudden he is a threat to himself and the people around him. We need to arrest him, fine him, jail him, suspend his license and cause him significant personal humiliation and financial despair. Even though at the moment of his arrest driver 1 was still a hundred times safer behind the wheel than driver 2, we punish driver 1 and shower driver 2 with gold stars for trying so hard.

In reality we haven't arrested driver 1 for being dangerous to himself or anyone else. We have arrested him for failing to live up to our expectations. Driver 2 is a threat every single minute of the day and we know it but we look the other way because he is trying his best. Its only after he kills someone that the idea to take his license away is actually brought up.

Its the same thing for people of advanced years. I have seen some older folks who were great drivers and I have seen some that literally bounced from one curb to the other all the way down the street. (yes, I have actually seen that happen)

So instead of sobriety checkpoints, how about IQ checkpoints? If you are too stupid to drive, I don't care if you are drunk or not. Seriously though, there has to be a way to get bad drivers off the road before they kill someone instead of after. In the old days we had to take a drivers test to get a license and repeat that test at scheduled intervals or we didn't drive. I haven't had to take an actual driving test in God knows how long. Its been many, many years. I honestly cant even remember when the last one was. I have had a lot of experience behind the wheel, both on and off the track, and I consider myself a good driver. And every day I see people do things that, were it not for the grace of God, would get them killed. I know I am not the only one who sees this stuff. How do we get these people off the road and still maintain some form of civil liberty better than sobriety check points?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I used to drink. A lot. When I took an IQ test for a job screening, I scored ______. When I was hammered a week later, I took the test again (from their link) just for fun and scored six points higher.

I know for a fact, my genius ass couldn't have zipped my pants properly that night, let alone drive anywhere. IQ test wouldn't be a very good way to determine driving ability.

How do we get these people off the road and still maintain some form of civil liberty better than sobriety check points?

We don't. The insurance companies would have a stroke if people actually knew how to drive. Don't you know reading, putting on make up and talking/texting are our God given Rights? How dare you insinuate folks should pay attention to where they're going or what's in front of them.
Must be a Commie.

I remember being served two beers at lunch while I was in the Army. I remember a time before DUI. If memory serves you got charged with reckless driving and the cops would tell the judge it was 'drunk driving' ... and that got you slammed. Used to be it just wasn't that big-a-deal.

I've always considered driving a job. It's pretty obvious when people shouldn't be on the pay-roll.

Outstanding OP. S&F

I was a pretty poor driver between 16 and 18. It wasn't a lack of skill; it was attitude. I just had no respect. So the cops would pull me over and give me a ticket, like 12 of them in 2 years. And I had to go to juvy court, pay $3.00, and appear before the judge. I always took my report cards because I had GPA's that ranged from 3.8 to a whopping 4.0. I would tell the judge I may have been caught here, but some of it really wasn't fair, and I was actually a top notch student and here was the proof.

Then two things happened. One was I was racing another driver at night on our infamous "River Road." I beat the guy handily in my V-8 1957 Ford, but the cops beat us both and I got thrown in jail for an overnight--juvenile detention. They took a dim view of that and said one more time and I got the book thrown at me. But the other thing that happened was that I turned 18 and had to pay adult ticket prices. I got a couple more, but it kind of went to a trickle, and finally I got one ticket in the last, umm, 40 years.

I can pass any damn IQ test you throw at me. I got excellent grades. But intelligence /= maturity, and to base anything like that on IQ doesn't work, as I am a living example. Bad idea. Luckily I did not hurt anyone back then. Luckily I finally grew into a responsible driver. It surely did not start out that way.

Always walk.. take taxi or get ride back to hotel from the police when in china and japan .. figure thats why got taxi's ..

Well, the IQ checkpoint was half sarcasm half real. I would like to find something else to use as a gage though. Sobriety checkpoints are violations of civil liberty IMO and shouldn't happen. But we DO need a way to get unsafe drivers off the road, intoxicated or not.

I had a taste for beer and a 426 hemi roadrunner when I was 16 years old and I had a 440 six-pack roadrunner before I even had my license. I was an accident waiting to happen. Fortunately, it never did. The hemi did wheelies and I learned to respect it very quickly. And I saved that stuff for the track where it belonged.

Some time in my mid 20's I started drinking hard and hanging out with bands at clubs. (I am a musician also) There were a lot of 4am drives home that probably shouldn't have happened. I got a real break one night by a cop who should have just taken me to jail. I was literally across the street from my home when he stopped me. He saw my license and asked me if I could follow him up my driveway. I said yes. I woke up the next morning in my car with my license in my shirt pocket. I never knew I could be so lucky.

But I also thought long and hard about what had happened and it could have gone very wrong. I never drove under the influence again after that.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

OK. You give a good start at a counter argument for the laws, but the laws there and elsewhere in criminal justice are made according to a common denominator, protect citizens. (This one varies according various states that set the amount that becomes illegal.) There is no better way. It is sorta like speed limits. Get it?

And get serious with your argument. Most DUI cases are made because the person attracted the attention of a officer or a member of the public because of their driving. So in most cases, it is actual behavior that brought the charge. And that behavior is not being in proper control of their vehicle.

Its about maturity... I've always been a good driver but maturity not so much. I have it now but didn't in my teens and early twenties. Had a Dodge Dart GTS with lots of modifications and drank lots. The guy I bought it from called it a coffin on wheels. Anyhow nothing really bad happened but I had a wake up call when one night I awoke hung over and so thirsty I couldn't sleep. Laying in bed I realized I honestly couldn't remember how I got home. I panicked and went to check, car was there. Not a single memory. That freaked me out. It was only one of a string of these but it finally sunk in.

I agree with the premise of the op but it is so subjective that I can't see how it could be resolved fairly to everyone and that includes the innocent people all around.

Drinking and driving is easily preventable but judges do not wish it to stop.

Simply requiring booze companies to include a sobriety test with the alcohol would give people the ability to self-police a substance designed to undermine their ability to self police even in minute quantities.

Brethalyser machines should be standard in automobiles of drinkers...for their own self-policing ability but we dont see this availbility mainstream.

Crime an its consequences create profits...social suffering of all types creates profit......the people making the profit do not want the carnage to stop.

There is a secret people dont know about alcohol....the secret to stopping alcoholism is to replace its daily anti-parasitic impacts in conjunction with abstinence.

Alcohol is medicine....it is anti-parasitic....

-you drink booze
-your body recognises anti-parasitic
- anti-parasitics are PRIORITY for our health and longevity
-our brain has an overriding positive "greenlight" message it recieves and sends when it encounters any anti-parasitic
- The 1st messge recieved is "greenlight"...good.......with an immediate more attatched to it.
-the 2nd message is the "buzz"
-if you keep drinking booze the PRIORITY "greenlight" message catalysed by the anti-parasitic impacts will stay on and OVERRIDE the "getting drunk" or "to much alcohol" signal because the body and mind recognise alcohols anti-parasitic impacts BEFORE the "buzz" then simply refuse to aknowledge anything as being more critical than the anti-parasitic impacts.....and your body and brain willingly choose to keep drinking.....its not the "buzz" in the booze which makes you keep drinking.....it is the priority message which overrides the "damages imminent stop" message which SHOULD allow us to normally stop drinking before we get drunk.

I quit drinking cold turkey after many years of social+ drinking........the fact I didnt subscibe to conventions led me to keep a diary of everything including my diet and other habits.I soon recognised patterns which led me to learn about the late and respected Canadian woman Dr Hulda Clark and her groundbreaking work.....which led me to understand alcohol and its meaning to my brain and body in new ways....

Imagine being cleared daily of humanitys most lethal enemy parasites unwittingly due to alcohol consumption OR over-consumption.....the body/brain cannot tell the difference between the two.Then suddenly stopping the anti-parasitic treatments you have been getting daily............you better believe everyone gets sick when they suddenly quit ingesting booze to differing degrees depending on their diets and locations and you better believe they crave the anti-parasitic impacts when they begin to become infested with things non-drinkers all have......its not the "buzz" impact catalysing the "cravings" it is the anti-parasitic impacts which our brians and bodies keep on file as a SURVIVAL PRIORITY WHICH OVERRIDES ALL OTHERS that we are missing.

This message has been peripherally brought to you courtesy of WCB Canada which via their SOP provided me with the 2 critical ingredients needed to become a constant learner and sharer of knowlege....time and poverty.

a reply to: schuyler

I can pass any damn IQ test you throw at me.

I really do have to ask . How does one fail an IQ test ??

I have a genius IQ and I don't even have my license. I hate driving. I view it as being like a video game. Which is why i choose not to drive even though I know how and am not bad at it. Also, I know plenty of stupid people who are great drivers. I imagine it has to do with not overthinking it.

a reply to: rukia

How do you make a teenager lose 20 IQ points . Nah i dont even have to give you the answer do i .

People have to take a behind the wheel driving test and a written test before they can get a license, they had to pass it somehow.

It was a drunk Driver that took the lives of my kids, it was a drunk driver that nearly fatal injured my husband. I haven't lost anyone or known anyone to be critically injured by an average driver. Minor accidents yes, but not on scale of drunk driving.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: schuyler

I can pass any damn IQ test you throw at me.

I really do have to ask . How does one fail an IQ test ??

Die while takeing the test?

a reply to: crazyewok

TextDie while takeing the test?

Probably best not to fail then .

a reply to: Vroomfondel

It's all a money racket. The laws surrounding it are illogical. The system loves drunk drivers.. that's where their pay checks come from!
While the fines for major theft, violent crimes and rape are less than the fines you get for getting behind the wheel after a couple of beers. Look it up.

Good post.

Sadly, public safety isn't the real goal- just like education isn't the real goal with public schools.

You have simply peered into the darker side of our civilization.

It's easy to pass silly laws and make stupid demands on the public in the name of safety. Throw away that old reliable car, this newer model made of brittle plastic is safer.
No? Well, you're not going to pass inspection this year, we just tweaked the guidebook saying surface rust on brake lines is not acceptable for cars older than ten years old! The magnesium chloride we spray on the roads should take care of the rest.


It's a twisted society out there, run by sociopaths- and we've let them take too much control over our lives.

I'm sorry...I might be really exhausted from this weekend but are there suggestions floating around that we shouldn't target drunk drivers?

No offense OP but I don't give a crap about driver 1. I AM driver 1. ((minus the Indy part...but mostly because I am bored to tears by racing))

But anyway. Safe and sound. Been driving 18 years. No wrecks, benders, and two speeding tickets when I was racing (which admittedly was stupid).

But aside from some stupid speeding two times, I follow the speed limit, use indicators, brake in time, and have had ample training in bad weather, black ice, and defensive driving due to my position in the military. I am careful, aware but not so aware that I am hypervigiliant.

But I will not drive because it lowers defenses and increases reaction time. Proven time and again. Same with cell phones and I agree that tickets should be given for that too.

But we are talking drunk drivers. Driver 1 should not have alcohol in his system and drive. I don't give a darn how "great" he is. I get the whole idea of "I had one beer, food and water like 4 hours ago and I am heading home." I mean people metabolize. But if you drive drunk, you increase risk. And yes I AM saying that without buying into insurance companies. That is my 100% honest and personal opinion.

No drunk driving. If you get caught driving drunk, especially the very many cases of people bring attention to themselves by swerving and such, you get a hardcore ticket or go to jail.

I disagree and take issue with drunk driving being illegal at all.
So many people's lives have been up-ended and destroyed when they consumed a reasonable amount of alcohol and were found guilty of drunk driving with the insane regulations we have today.
I'm tired of people being taken advantage of in the way the current system does. (and no, I've never had any offenses)

Instead, I think it should be made extremely clear that if you hurt/kill someone and are found to be drunk, your charges and sentencing are going to be large and brutal coupled with a license suspension for life.

An IQ test isn't going to be very applicable, mostly because I've personally known people who are intelligent and cannot drive well at all and conversely, people who favor the lower end of the scale that put me to shame with their driving abilities. We're too varied in our skills and talents to focus on one aspect like that.