Physical aggression

I come up repeatedly against strong opinions on violence- physical violence.

I ask that people consider the dynamic of taboos.
Repress something, and it grows in force inside. It goes through a sort of fermentation, like sugar turns to alcohol, so that it become more dangerous, like a room full of gas vapors. This is what happens with violence. Yes, then the belief that it is deadly is reinforced, because if you strike a match it blows up.

But if it had been spent and used consciously it wouldn’t have built up that way.

Look at the way our police have become- they explode into violence that is uncontrolled… what a strange irony that this is happening in a country that proclaims “Violence is never ever the answer!”

It isn’t that strange. Nor is it strange that the same country, with huge sexual taboos, so that all nudity, even breast feeding is condemned, also has the biggest porn industry in the world.

The glimpse of a breast can be the lit match to that build up. Repress physical clashes completely, you end up with much worse physical clashes.

We have drives for physical violence that are part of being human. Without an outlet, and without learning to master them, they become either turned against the self (as cutters do, or anorexics) or let go in uncontrollable rage against others randomly (like shooting sprees).

What might have been a fistfight with minor bruises, over in a few minutes and forgotten days after, turns into something much, much worse. People who refrain from defending themselves, even when being repeatedly abused, will one day bring out a gun or a knife and explode.

The “verbal solution” encourages covert manipulation, using things like money or sex.
The emphasis upon verbal solutions at all costs is a feminine principle- don’t react in the moment, just use covert and sneaky ways of making him suffer later- ways which will not make it clear to him why he is being treated this way- he won’t learn anything about what hurt her feelings, because it is delayed response.

I noticed long ago that the men around me almost had a fear of their drives- fear that if they let themselves slip even slightly, they will go bat# crazy and lose all control.
It seems to me that comes from lack of experience in mastering their body and it’s aggressive instincts.

So with my own kids, I got them into marshal arts, into sports like boxing, ways in which they will learn to use that force and master it- so that a moment where a push or a slap is used, they won’t “lose it” and go overboard. Their brain will stay in charge, as it has learned not to run when the thunder from inside comes.

We’ll all do as we feel is right with our kids and our selves. I just want to stimulate a little thought on the dangers of absolutes and universal judgements.

I got them into marshal arts, sports like boxing,

...ways in which they will learn to use that force and master it- so that a moment where a push or a slap is used, they won’t “lose it” and go overboard. Their brain will stay in charge, as it has learned not to run when the thunder from inside comes.

Those are two totally different things, and it's a myth that the first leads to the second. The second thing cannot really be found in sports or MA, it's a lie.

The only way to totally let go of violence is to totally let go of violence. And then you walk around unarmed. But for sure, you are not going to be able to transmute "repressed feelings of violence" by training violence.

It's a mess, I can't figure it out either.

a reply to: Bluesma

I have trouble with such metaphors in regards to anger, aggression and violence. I think it leads one to believe that anger and aggression are a form of pressure like steam, sure to explode into violence, or hopefully, to be released in some other manner. Though metaphorically "letting off steam" seems quite apt, literally it isn't, and the idea of catharsis remains somewhat of a dubious myth. A better metaphor might be that anger is a burning fire, and using fire to suppress fire isn't the best course of action to constrain it. We use water or sand.

Our less than noble tendencies (pride, vanity, lust, arrogance, want etc.) are really key in suppressing our less than noble behaviors. The euphemisms of "discipline" or "honor", are really these tendencies in disguise, and often the water we throw at our fires.

I still hold on to the perhaps vain hope that we can sublimate our so-called most evil tendencies into something more rewarding for both ourselves and the people around us. For instance in my own personal life, my violence is art, and I feel I am most destructive when I am most creative. I aggressively throw myself (maybe not so much anymore) into life experiences and adventure. I wager there is a component of violence and aggressiveness in every art form. When someone dances, we rarely say she is being violent, but I think it safe to say that she is engaged in an aggressive activity involving the same "physical force".

I think you are right to funnel the violence of your boys into something beautiful and artful such as martial arts, but martial arts itself does not create beauty and discipline. Like you hinted at, the key is love, knowledge and control of the body, and martial arts can help attain that.

The thing about anger is to understand what it is that makes you angry and why. If you go through life without that knowledge than you are a mass of switches just waiting to be flipped by anyone and everyone.

Not to mention anyone in sports can tell you that you actually do worse when you are angry. You need a high degree of focused concentration in order to excel at any sport. Using a sport in order to take out your anger and aggression doesn't make you a good competitor because you are not in control, your emotions are.

I'm learning that a combination of breathing/vocalization exercises, meditation, music, tears, and long walks helps.

👣

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think you are right to funnel the violence of your boys into something beautiful and artful such as martial arts,

How does that make sense? "Something beautiful and artful as martial arts"?

In application it's only "beautiful and artful" when difference in skill, skill at violence, is vastly different between fighters.

So, what then? An "artful and beautiful" bully is just another variety of bully and it still won't result in the life-changing qualities that the OP thinks it will.

Bummer, right?

a reply to: Bybyots

Part of martial arts training is how and when not to use their training. It's about learning control as much as it is about learning how to use their physical body to be a weapon. Just because you can doesn't you should and that's as much a part of the training in any responsible dojo as the actual physical side of things.

Again, reference what I said above. You cannot do very well at most of the intensive physical training if you are trying to act in anger. You need intense focus and control, not to be working from a very chaotic and emotional place which is what acting in anger will do.

i think men have an inbuilt potential for sudden bursts of rage and/or violence. 99% of the time it is managed and controlled but occasionally... years ago i suffered from occasional outbursts of destructive rage. the trigger could have been utterly trivial or entirely serious, however the result was the same - i trashed my house. i am SO glad that i have learned not to do this. although, to my (i think) credit, my rage explosions were never aimed at any other person, only things. stuff (hifis, tvs, etc). still, it's not cool to lose it so expensively.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, you used the word "dojo" so I am going to imagine that you must mean Japanese martial arts.

Do you know when Japanese traditional MA became the de-fanged thing that you are describing?

After they were pasted during WWII.

What you are describing resulted from the cultural impact of Japan losing a war and the whole package was imported to America as a "beautiful and artful sport".

Since we are on the subject of "beautiful and artful" fist fighting, I'm going to go ahead and do a pre-emptive strike on Taji and just get it over with, as I can tell I am not amongst history fans.

I will pose a question: What's the one thing that Chinese people do that really freaks out the post-Mao Chinese government?

Anyone?

Bueller?

a reply to: Bybyots

Falun Gong

You make a great point about our porn industry. I would like to extend this metaphor to alcohol as well. While in some European countries teens learn how to drink responsibly, American teens are deprived of alcohol, and by doing so when teens do start drinking they binge instead of doing so responsibly.

Another personal note along those lines, I have never fought my friends while sober, but while drunk I believe I've been in a fight with every one of them. When we lose our inhibitions, our tendency towards physical aggression seems to overpower us. And of course, to this day I swear that I did not start any of these fights.

I believe Nietzsche had something to say about this. He said the failure of Christianity is that while God made us with sexuality and physical aggression, his religion asks us to repress these things. Nietzsche says instead of repressing our passions, we should channel them.

I seem to have lost my Nietzsche quotes, if someone knows what I'm talking about I would appreciate the quotes

originally posted by: Bybyots

I will pose a question: What's the one thing that Chinese people do that really freaks out the post-Mao Chinese government?

Make babies

a reply to: olaru12

Falun Gong

Ta da!

Qigong Fever

Thanks, olaru12.

One reason Physical aggression is caused, is by food.

a reply to: Bybyots

How does that make sense? "Something beautiful and artful as martial arts"?

In application it's only "beautiful and artful" when difference in skill, skill at violence, is vastly different between fighters.

So, what then? An "artful and beautiful" bully is just another variety of bully and it still won't result in the life-changing qualities that the OP thinks it will.

Bummer, right?

Learning how to fight does not equate to harming or bullying people. It doesn't even equate to fighting. They have stripper-pole dance and exercise classes now; that doesn't mean their going to the nearest club and hopping on the stage.

"Anything that gets repressed gets expressed" and usually in an uncontrolled manner.

While physical violence is easy to see it is most often only the final expression of verbal and cognitive agression.

It's a systemic trait of Western Society, agression as solution.

We appauld 'winning' at all costs, ethics, morals be damned. Lawyers are trained to do just that, as are 'business people'. When everything is a competion and winning is the only 'acceptable' outcome, people do whatever they can to win, without any concern for damage done to others.

Sports used to teach 'sportsmanship', not any more. They now teach "anything goes just don't get caught".

The more people that want to change this paradigmn to one of cooperation and collaberation, those invested in the regressive and repressive world view fight back all the harder.

That means that the new mode is gaining power.

originally posted by: Bybyots


Those are two totally different things, and it's a myth that the first leads to the second. The second thing cannot really be found in sports or MA, it's a lie.

The only way to totally let go of violence is to totally let go of violence. And then you walk around unarmed. But for sure, you are not going to be able to transmute "repressed feelings of violence" by training violence.

I was confused by some of the posts here, and had to re-read many times to try to get a sense of what this element is being referred to. For me, one cannot say there is no violence in boxing, in football, in rugby, in martial arts. There is forceful impact of bodies against each other.

I finally got it when I pulled together another posters referals to 'anger' and your usage of "feelings of violence" !

In speaking of violence, I am not speaking of anger, I am not speaking of feelings. I am speaking of physical acts.
Then I realized that once repressed and held inside, such physical drives become feelings, we make them into anger - through creating a pattern of thought which attributes the aggressive pulsion to or because of someone or something.


If it is about anger, then that says to me that the violence is fruit of repression. Once a potato, it is now vodka. (LOL)

When some sort of discipline (like martial arts, for example) is practiced, then the body is trained to channel movements in response to exterior movements, so that they become almost automatic, like dancing, and there is no time for the mind to spin up feelings like anger! The physical energy stimulated is used in action right away- not stored and fermented into feelings.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

The french have a saying I found thought provoking the first time I heard it, "to do violence against myself".

What it is used to describe is to counter,or clash against, your own fears, principles or most base ideas.
To question your fundamental precepts about reality or yourself, or your own fears and limits. It is experienced inside as a sort of violent impact. This is often used in contexts of artistic expression.

From past knowledge of your posts here, I am guessing you get exactly what that is, and like me, rather enjoy pushing your limits that way!

a reply to: Bluesma

The french have a saying I found thought provoking the first time I heard it, "to do violence against myself".

What it is used to describe is to counter,or clash against, your own fears, principles or most base ideas.
To question your fundamental precepts about reality or yourself, or your own fears and limits. It is experienced inside as a sort of violent impact. This is often used in contexts of artistic expression.

From past knowledge of your posts here, I am guessing you get exactly what that is, and like me, rather enjoy pushing your limits that way!

I like this idea. Yes, it seems there is a sort of suffering in creativity, and maybe there is a distinction between a destructive and creative violence.