Jesus is a man

a reply to: Akragon
If I ever write a thread on "Who was right at the Council of Nicaea?", we can argue out the point then.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I already did actually... Reconciling Arius

And im sorry for being off topic in your thread... what you wrote is a really good piece

Let me give you one more thing to think about...

After Jesus' resurrection he said "all the power was given to me on heaven and earth"...

IF he was equal to the Father... why did he not take it instead...

HE was GIVEN that power By the only one that is Greater then HE... as he said

Anyways... take care brother

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Jesus IS a man

This was the deliberate wording of the title.
That is, he has not ceased to be a man.
In the teaching of the New Testament, his manhood was raised from the dead on Easter Day.
So the union of God and man in Christ remains unbroken.

In fact, as far as we know, this combination of divinity and humanity is permanent.
Which implies that the person of Christ is a permanent and unbreakable bond between Creator God and created world, holding them together like a rivet.
That ought to be a mind-blowing thought.

A few questions, if you please.

Is your conclusion that "the person of Christ is a permanent and unbreakable bond between Creator God and created world" based in the belief that there was an actual physical resurrection of the body of Jesus into heaven? Is that what you mean specifically when you speak of "his manhood was raised from the dead on Easter Day"?

As I wondering earlier in my prior post, does Jesus still function as Spiritual Master similar to how he did with his followers when he was physically present on earth? If so, do you have personal experience with him in this manner that you might care to speak of?

Thank you.

originally posted by: bb23108
Is your conclusion that "the person of Christ is a permanent and unbreakable bond between Creator God and created world" based in the belief that there was an actual physical resurrection of the body of Jesus into heaven? Is that what you mean specifically when you speak of "his manhood was raised from the dead on Easter Day"?

The phrase "physical resurrection" would have to be used cautiously, because Paul reminds us that the post-resurrection body is not the same kind of body as the original body (1 Corinthians ch15)/.
With that reservation, yes; my conclusion was based on the assumption that there was a real restoration of human life.

P.S.And again, his image in Revelation declares "I died, and behold I am alive for evermore" (Revelation ch1 v18). The idea this "raised from the dead" life of Jesus came to an end later on would clash with and undermine everything the New Testament says about the effect of his resurrection, which seems to oblige us to understand that it continues.

As I wondering earlier in my prior post, does Jesus still function as Spiritual Master similar to how he did with his followers when he was physically present on earth? If so, do you have personal experience with him in this manner that you might care to speak of?

According to the teaching in John's gospel, the guidance of Jesus now comes through the Holy Spirit.
"I will send you the Counsellor... When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth" (John ch16 v13).
In principle, all Christians have received the Holy Spirit, but whether they have any tangible sense of that will vary from one individual to another.
In my case, it's a matter of acting in faith and in good faith, and trusting that the Holy Spirit is guiding behind the scenes.

a reply to: DISRAELI
When Jesus blessed his disciples with spiritual rebirth, was this blessing not the same as what John called the Holy Spirit?

After the resurrection, is Jesus considered to be one with the Holy Spirit by John, or is the Holy Spirit "simply" the blessing function of Jesus, or is the Holy Spirit, at least now, considered to be the third aspect of God as trinity? If the third aspect, what is Jesus' eternal function then specifically?

originally posted by: bb23108
When Jesus blessed his disciples with spiritual rebirth, was this blessing not the same as what John called the Holy Spirit?

Yes, it's the same Spirit all the way through.

Is Jesus considered to be one with the Holy Spirit by John, or is the Holy Spirit "simply" the blessing function of Jesus, or is the Holy Spirit the third aspect of God as trinity? If the third aspect, what is Jesus' eternal function then specifically?

At one point Jesus says he will ask the Father to send the Spirit (John ch14 v16), and he also says that he will send the Spirit himself (ch16 v7).
Either way, that means there is a distinction between Jesus and the Spirit. Paul sometimes refers to "the Spirit of Jesus", because the Spirit is sent by Jesus and speaks his words.
The trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is understood to be attached to the Son.
You could see last week's "The Word became flesh" thread on that last point.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
The phrase "physical resurrection" would have to be used cautiously, because Paul reminds us that the post-resurrection body is not the same kind of body as the original body (1 Corinthians ch15)/.
With that reservation, yes; my conclusion was based on the assumption that there was a real restoration of human life.

And that human life rose into the heavens? Many people believe his physical form actually was resurrected and ascended into the heavens.

However, what it seems, given how he Blessed his disciples with the Spirit Light above the flesh world and lifted them into the Kingdom of Heaven above, is that his spiritual body ascended into the Light of God above this world, and he was able to communicate his immortality afterwards via the Holy Spirit descending upon his closest followers. This makes much more sense to me than thinking in terms of his gross physical body going up into the clouds.

a reply to: bb23108
We' re getting into territory which we humans are not really capable of understanding, because the state of "heaven" is beyond our current intellectual grasp.
Your suggestion creates another difficulty; given that the human life of Jesus was "raised", and since there is no reason why it should have been brought to an end again; if it did not "go up to heaven", what happened to it?

I've dug out a manual of theology to see what it says on the subject.
"The ascension of Jesus was not merely a transition from one place to another; it also included a further change in the human nature of Christ. That nature now passed into the fulness of heavenly glory and was perfectly adapted to the life of heaven" (Berkhof, Systematic Theology, p350).
Admittedly, this is really just another speculation, but it deals with the problem consistently with the New Testament and within the limits of our present knowledge.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

That ought to be a mind-blowing thought.

Well, it is. But a thought is like a jewel my friend. Many facets.

Some facets of that thought are socially acceptable. Some aren't.

👣

originally posted by: DISRAELI
I've dug out a manual of theology to see what it says on the subject.
"The ascension of Jesus was not merely a transition from one place to another; it also included a further change in the human nature of Christ. That nature now passed into the fulness of heavenly glory and was perfectly adapted to the life of heaven" (Berkhof, Systematic Theology, p350).

Regarding the spiritual ascent that Jesus initiated his disciples into, I have read that after Jesus' death, his disciples continued and promoted their mystical practices of ascent, and that the ascended body of Jesus was considered to be the white five-pointed star that represented the pathway to the Divine state of Unity. This experience of perceiving inwardly the white five-pointed star was also symbolized as the Morning Star.

This star of Jesus was said to always be radiating the Light of God throughout the cosmos (the single Light of the world), and through communion with, provided the means to the Divine Above.

In this manner, Jesus became the means, even after his death, for his followers to enter the kingdom of heaven, even while they still lived - that is, "born to here from Above".

Unfortunately, their esotericism had to become more and more hidden from view, as the exoteric groups grew more and more in political strength and numbers.

a reply to: bb23108

Well, you can't build an empire on esotericism. 😝

👣

a reply to: BlueMule

Amen to that, brother! You can't have all kinds of ecstatic people running around crazy infilled with God-Love! Who is going to do all the work of forever building and running the empire?

a reply to: bb23108

Your thinking is similar to thoughts I have had. Rumi, Buddha and Nanak to name some of the well known mystics/anointed ones. Then we have the hidden ones that do their work without being noticed to the world.

It will one day be interesting to compare notes with the mystics and ask how much abilities they had. In a way there is a trick to every ability you learn. Ones you figure it out it becomes easy. Do not matter if it is Reiki, Meditation or understanding of the deeper Quantum physics or Synchronicity. It just takes effort to understand the trick.

Namaste

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: BlueMule

Amen to that, brother! You can't have all kinds of ecstatic people running around crazy infilled with God-Love! Who is going to do all the work of forever building and running the empire?

There will come a day when humanity do reach this point and seeking will become much easier than before. Buddha made things easier. Jesus made it easier. And others after have made it easier. Wave after wave sent to make it easier.

A slow process but still worth it even if it can be very annoying with speed of progress.

originally posted by: bb23108
Regarding the spiritual ascent that Jesus initiated his disciples into, I have read that after Jesus' death, his disciples continued and promoted their mystical practices of ascent,

You certainly haven't read that in the New Testament, so it isn't relevant to Christian theology.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: bb23108
Regarding the spiritual ascent that Jesus initiated his disciples into, I have read that after Jesus' death, his disciples continued and promoted their mystical practices of ascent,

You certainly haven't read that in the New Testament, so it isn't relevant to Christian theology.

Which part are you saying isn't relevant - the spiritual ascent that Jesus initiated his disciples into OR that after Jesus' death, his disciples continued and promoted their mystical practices of ascent?

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: bb23108
Regarding the spiritual ascent that Jesus initiated his disciples into, I have read that after Jesus' death, his disciples continued and promoted their mystical practices of ascent,

You certainly haven't read that in the New Testament, so it isn't relevant to Christian theology.

That kind of reasoning "that if it is not Christian theology/doctrine mandated by the catholic church" then it is not true is the reason many think Christian theology have lost all connection to god and what Jesus taught.

Why care if it is part of Christian theology/doctrine faith if it is the objective truth of what happened.

a reply to: bb23108
Both parts. You did not find "disciples ascending" in the New Testament.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

I did not say "mandated by the catholic church". My position is "mandated by the New Testament", which has been the standard of Christian teaching ever since there has been a New Testament

Why care if it is part of Christian theology/doctrine faith if it is the objective truth of what happened.

Because this thread is an exercise in Christian theology/doctrine faith, and also because there was nothing particularly objective about the suggestion being made. It was an imaginative speculation.

a reply to: DISRAELI
True faith is realizing that there is only presence and it is doing itself.
The issue is that there is a belief in 'you' being separate to life. This is life and it is just simply happening.

If you do not realize that the present is arising unconditionally and that you are not doing it and that there is no one doing it then there will be blame and guilt.

God is presence - God is doing the present and God is knowing the present. There is nothing separate from God.