China pushing their power

a reply to: criticalhit
I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of our governments stance on this issue.

Our lips are sealed when our 'friends' do something, but we bay incessantly when our 'enemies' do the exact same thing.

What China decides to do with their new lands is up to them. I don't have the right to tell them what to do with it any more than they would have the right to tell me what I can do inside my own lands.

a reply to: peck420

Gotcha,

yeah and it's our hypocrisy I think in part that will slowly shift all of East Asia right into China's lap.

Ever haggle in a Chinese store? "100, I have 20, 75, I can go 30...." etc. That's how debates on these waters will go over time China starts High asking for everything...to get a good deal. America takes what it wants and never leaves. This is not lost on the Pacific rim nations and whatever "disputes" they have more in common with each they than they do difference.

Some would Mark the end of the British Empire as "The day Winston Churchill died"

I'd say the end of the American Empire was marked during the Obama administration, not by a death but the Day China surpassed us Economically. As the British left the Suez we leave behind Israel to a degree and troop withdraw from the Middle east as well, our new found oil independence helps us but leaves the region open for a new dominating force in the East. The USA leader of the West fell behind China one afternoon last year and no 1 is China and no 3 is Japan. The "Asian clout making them the dominant region on the planet together wont be lost on them for long if it is at all"

This just isn't about the USA, the East in general is becoming the new center, China exceeds the USA, Japan exceeds any nation in Europe individually, Taiwan and SK are rising and there are Juggernauts in the region, Indonesia more populous than the USA is a long way away but by demographic it's time will come and India who in the not too distant future with the most Universities in the world and being the worlds largest democracy will rise in a similar manner to China.

It's not the Wests century and Americas belligerence only hastens this outcome.

I'd add to this though....

America Is also a Pacific Rim nation, in the long run like the British fell from absolute power we are doing so right now BUT if you look at the demographics Canada and the USA will be very "Asian" nations before this century ends. The immigration is all Asian the PHD programs are all Asian, cities like Vancouver and San Fran are hitting 33%, NY has 500,000 + Chinese and the immigration numbers are higher than Mexico's ever were.

In time Asians will rival Caucasians in number, likely exceed us in North America. They will own more than Europe does, already have the no 1 spot in per capita income over Caucasians and per capita Ivy league enrollment, start thinking "Asian Skull and Bones"

If we embrace Asia, America will never not be a world power, in theory between Europe and Asia we could one day hold the seat again as the century ends...

a reply to: criticalhit
Unless China's economy implodes.
That growing bubble has a FINITE life JUST like Japan's and,corruption, waste and suppression will eventually take its toll.
This new influx of cash from Hong Kong being turned back over to Chinese control was quite predicatble really.
The banktupsy of individual creativity will kill them as it has Russia.
I'm not all that worried who immigrates to the US as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS have given us a great deal.
All the US has to do is whip out some wild tech and VIOLA we are the worlds darlings..again.
Then to Jackboots are our best salesmen, WE don't take their lives without giving back, rebuilding.
OLD enemies want us abck when faced with the merauding hordes.
WE are the ONLY counter force.
WHEN our politicians get the HELL out of the way.

Do we think the Chinese government is going to enter into a situation where a state of war would exist between China and the US knowing they would not only lose the US market but also the debt the US owes them?

Also if it occurs China would be facing NATO and not just the US.

Can China be stopped without using of nuclear weapons?

Although provocative to the desire of more humane outcome of WW3, this question would stand before any military and government that perceives China as potential adversary in WW3. Not only the US government btw!

India has a nuclear program with purpose not only to oppose that of Pakistan, but much more to defend against it potential rival China. China on its turn helped Pakistan and built the world's highest paved road between the two countries, thus making it possible Chinese million army to arrive at the Gulf coast at no time.

Russia-China friendship forever? Only few decades ago the Russian non-nuclear but powerful bombs annihilated the Chinese tanks advancing on USSR Siberian territory. Recently, Putin did 2mega drills in the Far East, one of them moving thousands of tanks to drill-attack island Sakhalin. Probably that show of force wasn't intended only for Japanese consumption, but also for the Chinese as well. If the impossible happens, and China somehow turns on Russia, the longest border in the world would be breached on so many places and by so many troops, that Russia has to use nukes on its own territory to stop Chinese advance further West.

Wil USA go without a nuclear war with China? Any conflict between the Koreas, Japan, or Taiwan, would require the promised US nuclear umbrella to be activated. If US doesn't fulfill its promises, who of the allies including those in Europe would ever believe US will protect them with nukes? The nuclear umbrella and deterrence will remain in history. US cannot afford not to help South Korea, Japan and even Taiwan. But that help will meet the world's biggest army in terms of manpower. The US airforce may be superior to the Chinese, still there will be great losses in case of conventional clash. Moreover, when it comes to control territory, the US air and naval power might not be enough against the Chinese troops. Wil USA therefore decide to use preemptive nuclear strike against the Chinese ICBMs and SLBM /submarine bases?

China went as far as to publish a map of potential targets on US soil - specifically the cities Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles, that could be hit by the Chinese submarine based missiles. The article in English stated further that the fallout from those cities will kill many more people eastward. Unfortunately for the Chinese, their subs cannot reach Washington and New York, therefore, the article said, ICBMs should be used. That all - in state sponsored and tightly controlled media, in English. On another occasion, retired Chinese general said that China is ready to lose every city East of Xian (practically everything from Beijing to Shanghai to Hong Kong) for the option to nuke 100 American cities. That statement was carried out again by the Chinese English media. No other country ever have threatened US after the Cuban crisis. Not even Iran uses such rhetoric.

Having said all that, it seems much more humane a precise strike only on the Chinese ICBMs to pteempt any attempt of nuking US cities, that China already warned they will be nuked. It seems USA has to choose the smaller evil in case of Asian major war in which USA will be involved according to existing treaties.

While the world's attention is fixed to Ukraine as the possible flashpoint of WW3, and Syria - Iran as a second region, it may turn out that China and East Asia are the most dangerous regions on the planet. Coupled with the already uncovered attempts by the Chinese business elite to redraw the rules of international business. In other words, to push the US and EU economies to the wall. Does it mean, the staged economic crisis after 2008 is not so much "made in Wallstreet" rather "made in China"? Does it mean China looks for provocation, after benefiting for 20-30 years from a willing West to provide China with everything, from manufacturing of clothes and cars to computers? The world may see the biggest treachery in history, when a beneficent like China (almost the biggest ever) turns on its benefactor, ultimately with nukes.

Japanese emperor Hirohito surrendered after the second nuke, thus saving millions of lives.
Today's emboldened China threatens to nuke Los Angeles, although the threat is not formally pronounced by the communist leaders. The only other country that did so after the Cold War, was North Korea.

It is known that after 2001 China enlarged its nuclear potential around ten times. Satellite imagery made by US scientists proved the existence of tunnels with ICBMs. The old 240 declared nukes grew in number to as many as 2000 or more.

That cannot go without consequences, even if they are not loudly said. Isn't it a time for review of the Japanese pacifist constitution? Japan is a paranuclear country with stored plutonium for 10,000 nukes and capability to mount it in warheads and missiles in a month-long notice.

The history is full of examples how the peoples do not learn from history rather repeat old mistakes. This time, the mistakes will be nuclear. As Robert McNamara said on interview published on youtube, never in the history one commander could destroy entire nations, as it is possible today. He further said, the Cuban crisis' lucky end was exactly that - LUCK. "We lucked it out", said McNamara.