Catastrophe of Polish Presidents plane in Smolensk, Russia

(This is my first thread so if I didnt aim in correct section please replace it )


Hey, I want to know what people all over the world think about this 'accident'. What You think cause this accident?

After 5 years both black boxes and sink are in Russia. A lot of unexpleined facts. Polish inquiry group works on COPIES of black box material, they were not able to work on bodies in Russia. Polish goverment give the investigation in 100% to Russians.. WHY?! What the heck?
Plane crash left 62 thousands of remains! The plane which was ready to sit on the airport! (yeah yeah Pentagon ha ha)
Look at the plane crash arranged by Discovery. Not more than few remains. The plane were minor damaged..


Discovery plane crash: www.youtube.com...
Moments after polish Presidents plane crash: www.youtube.com...

What You think about that? Do ATS experts think this is custon plane crash?

a reply to: residentofearth

It depends on how it hit the ground maybe ?

I just recently read about some new information...

Pilots of crashed plane were forced to land in heavy fog

It`s another case of a strange airplane crash.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Yeah it depends, Of course. But how one tree broke whole wing and let the plane turn around?

Compare this accident with one which occurs in 1988, AirBus A320: en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: residentofearth

You know what it is...

I think this is stuff for real experts to answer, people who have been on the ground in this case and have studied many of such cases also on the ground.

A few days ago I read half year old thread on a F1 forum about Max Verstappen (being Dutch he interests me)...he got signed up on a really young age for F1 being relatively inexperienced. Once I read he was signed up for F1 I started to follow him by watching his F3 races (3 in a weekend) and watched his old races...and if you read that thread, you would read only some who would say, Red Bull probably knows more about him and had their reasons why they signed him up so young for F1...the few who said that were right to assume Red Bull knew much more, but if you read the thread (and they were backed by two ex F1 World champions and other active drivers) the majority had already the opinion he couldn`t be ready for F1, he was way too young...

...they were dead wrong !

My point being...I`m guessing, in something like how planes disintegrate in different crash situations is something which is stuff for real experts...I would not burn my hands on it and I don`t think you will find real experts on that on this forum.

Would you think this guy (kid) wasn`t ready, even with a huge mistake in it...look at how he does that lap...


...and I miss Kubica in F1, so sad as to what has happened to him, I was a fan of him also.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: residentofearth

.





My point being...I`m guessing, in something like how planes disintegrate in different crash situations is something which is stuff for real experts...I would not burn my hands on it and I don`t think you will find real experts on that on this forum.

Actually, you might be surprised what, and who, you might find on this forum. We're not all Dorito-eating, basement dwelling, acne-scarred teenagers. I am the Lead Investigator and Forensic Director of a national aviation accident investigation firm, having been an accident investigation officer in the Air Force, a FAA Accident Prevention counselor and delegee investigator for the NTSB. We routinely walk the ground at scenes, looking at the pieces, body parts, damaged ground structures and anything else that helps with gaining a full picture. I have flown both the 727 and the Tu-154 (which is almost a clone (though a little larger than the Boeing.)
In any event, I don't see anything suspicious about the wreckage pattern of the Tupelov. Both aircraft were slowed from cruise, the 727 for landing, with full flaps, slats and gear and the Tu for approach probably with half-flaps. So the 727 would have hit relatively soft sand at a slower speed. And since the Boeing crash was intentional, it was almost zero fuel. So the Tu was probably at an approach weight of 150,000 pounds or so. The 727, a -100, was probably at around 95,000 pounds. The kinetic energy available to tear up the structure is given by 1/2 mass times velocity squared, so the Tupelov had considerably more kinetic energy. If you want to see what hitting at 500 mph looks like, look at www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: residentofearth

Moments after polish Presidents plane crash: www.youtube.com...

The figures walking in the background are said to be the death squad. One alleged translation has the voices saying something like. "All four of them? Still alive?" Then gunshots.

There are said to be no photographs or video showing the group boarding the plane. It is said the group would never have risked boarding one plane together in case of 'accident'. It is said Poland's top lawyer was one of the group. Her car was not found in the airport car park. Her husband says she was abducted before she reached the airport.

The cameraman was attacked and almost killed, two days later in hospital he was murdered.

These things are said. I don't know how close to the truth this is.

I do know the story was not given anything like the attention it deserves.

This video is said to show the spirits making a comment at 18 seconds.

It is said there were no bodies or luggage.

a reply to: residentofearth

Here's a video.

a reply to: F4guy

If you are who you say, I can`t do anything else as to retract my words.

And are you independent now (I mean, not only in words but also in mind) ?

a reply to: residentofearth

The Polish president and his cabinet were anti-IMF, they actually offered to loan Greece the money they needed bypassing the IMF, which the BIS/IMF were quite ticked about (well, their handlers actually, but crap does roll downhill). The vice-president was pro-IMF and still is. So, the president and the cabinet are dead and the vice president is still alive.

It isn't hard to connect the dots and they all go back to IMF contracted "enders," but that's just my opinion. You have to wonder what other planes they might have brought down? For me, the Helderberg, Pan Am 103 and Swiss Air 111 just jump out at me, but then I have researched those a fair bit. Not so much on the OP plane as it seemed blatantly obvious.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

101 is a number that features elsewhere as if with meaning. Makes me wonder if the crash was planned years ahead.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

What are your reasons for TPTB or whomever taking down the planes you listed? If this was to take down the government of Poland then what was the reasoning behind the other three? Not sure exactly what you are trying to say.

Money, I get that, but one is a coup, the others not so much. Money works in weird ways so I'm probably just missing the connection.

Here's a link to some research.
humanityinchaos.com...

originally posted by: TheSpanishArcher
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

What are your reasons for TPTB or whomever taking down the planes you listed? If this was to take down the government of Poland then what was the reasoning behind the other three? Not sure exactly what you are trying to say.

Money, I get that, but one is a coup, the others not so much. Money works in weird ways so I'm probably just missing the connection.

The Helderberg was part of the breaking down and demoralization of South Africa, there were supposed to be three targets on the plane, one didn't get on as he was warned off. There was also supposed to be (according to my people anyway and I think the Chief of CI might be a good source) the 18kgs of p239 for the Atlas EMP project and about 2 kg's of enhanced ammonium perchlorate for the accelerated SAMS programs at Somchem and PMP Detonics (this was back in the late 80's). It stopped an effort we had to finish the job that was started in Angola.

Pam Am 103 an interesting case, Brent Carlssen was steered onto Pan Am 103 after a meeting with Oppenheimer (IMF, debeers, anglo-american) after Brent had chewed Oppenheimer out on the BBC. Oppenheimer was apparently manipulating resources in SWA, soon to become Namibia. Carlssen, who was the commissioner for the handover of SWA to a Namibian government, found this out and the rest is history. It's interesting that SA agents were spotted in the baggage terminal with Pan Am 103 luggage according to witnesses. In addition, it is alleged that magnus, pik and only 4 others of the 22 in the delegation to the UN were moved from Pan Am 103 to Pan AM 101. Doesn't surprise me really, I knew magnus and pik. Some of the history I could tell ;-)

Swiss Air 111 is another problem case. I am not sure which branch of the banksters took that one down, but apparently there were "political" issues with a lesser Saudi "prince" (there are so many of them). Plus he was moving if I remember right, 50 million in gold on the plane as well as a couple priceless paintings. I would expect that the paintings would never be recovered, fireball an all, not good for canvas, but the gold, it was never recovered. Something was amiss there. I think he was the prince that had dealings with Ghadafi concerning the gold backed currency for Africa.

Some targets are just too sweet to let go it appears. The same might very well be true about the Polish president and cabinet since they were going against IMF wishes. When dirty tricks work, they are used over and over again.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Thanks. That's info I never could have known so no wonder I didn't get the connection.

a reply to: Kester
That Video is quite a thing to stomach. I've heard rumors about this but never see (or heard) some evidence of the takedown squad.

a reply to: Talliostro

And it appears to be the crew who are shot. Where were the missing people? That's also a difficult issue to face.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: F4guy

If you are who you say, I can`t do anything else as to retract my words.

And are you independent now (I mean, not only in words but also in mind) ?

To function effectively in the world of aircraft accident investigation, one must maintain independence. Under the rules of both the NTSB and ICAO, numerous, if not all, interested parties are allowed to participate. For example, in the typical air carrier accident, you will have involvement from the airline, airframe manufacturer, engine manufacturer, PATCO (ATC union), airport, avionics manufacturer, pilots union, and all the different branches of the NTSB team, such as meteorology, human factors, ATC, aeromedical, materials engineering, and so on. The whole thing usually ends up in some court or another and if your expert witness is perceived to be a "whore" selling testimony for an interested party, his (or her) testimony will be ignored. Since usually there is plenty of "blame" to spread around, absolute independence doesn't really harm the client. The goal is to find every link in the "accident chain", not to pursue some agenda like "Russia is bad so they must have done it." You might be amazed at some of the mundane causes of some crashes: a burned out 50 cent lightbulb-Eastern 401 with 101 dead; a misnamed navigation fix-American 965 with 168 dead; a 60 year old mistake in laying out runways-Comair 5191 with 49 dead.

a reply to: Kester

I don't know who gets shot there or why and who is still missing from that plane.
It's just hard to witness what seems to be a takedown squad at work on survivors of a horrible crash.

a reply to: Talliostro

I wonder when the credible mainstream media will mention it?

a reply to: Kester

New polish goverment is going to re-open the case.

Poland to re-open Smolensk case
01.12.2015 13:13
The new conservative Polish government will reopen the investigation into the Smolensk plane crash in Russia of 2010, which saw the death of 96 people, including then-President Lech Kaczyński.

“We are completing work on the appointment of a new Committee for the Investigation of National Aviation Accidents [...] and the issue related to the Smolensk tragedy will be examined by a competent, honest and willing team of professionals – from Poland and abroad – which is ready to get to the truth of the matter,” Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz said.
The committee could be led by Dr Kazimierz Nowaczyk, the TVN broadcaster reported.

Nowaczyk was part of the so-called Macierewicz commission, a group of parliamentarians mainly from the then-opposition Law and Justice (PiS) party which concluded in a 2014 report that the Tupolev 154 plane was brought down by an explosion.
This was in stark contrast to official Polish and Russian military reports on the causes of the tragedy, which happened in dense fog on approach to a military airfield lacking ground identification radar. The former report cited a catalogue of errors on the Polish side, while also pointing to errors made by Russian staff at the control tower of Smolensk Military Airport. The Russian report placed all the blame on the Poles.

The wreckage of the plane has never been handed over by Russia to Polish authorities. (rg/nh/rk)

It's a quite old news but in few weeks the commision should show their raport about what happened. The case is still very secret.