RAWR! Stop blaming Sunnis & Shiites! It's Wahabis and their backers! (*Calms down) Let me explain

Salaams everyone. I'm tired of repeating myself on this, so here are the basic groups, denominations & historical figures. This way everyone will hopefully stop blaming all Muslims for the crimes of the extremists. Numbers 2 through 7 explain the groups & people in the past, while the ones after that explain today's divisions.

Disclaimers: I'm writing this from memory so yeah... Also, most Muslims don't care about most of this stuff & are just trying to live our lives. Oh & there are many different schools of thought in Islam, so some might not agree with some of my wordings (kind of like Christians debating Paul or Peter).

1. Islam & Muslim. Islam simply means "submission to God" and a Muslim is simply "one who submits to God". According to the Qur'an, the 4 most revered Prophets of Islam are 1. Musa/Moses, 2. Dawood/David, 3. Isa/Jesus, and 4. Muhammad. (For example, the Prophet Moses is the Prophet who is mentioned the most in the Qur'an.)

2. The Prophet Muhammad. The Final Messenger of Islam. When he was 40 years old, God started sending Angels to reveal the Qur'an to him. The Prophet's clan was powerful & initially rejected him. Many even fought him & his followers, though they eventually joined him. Many other religious groups throughout the Mideast would join him & his form of Islam (for example, the 2nd largest group among his followers were Ethiopians).

3. Ali. Nephew of the Prophet Muhammad and son of the uncle who adopted the Prophet. Ali was virtually raised by the Prophet, was the 1st to convert to his form of Islam (as a youth), protected the Prophet in battle, and became his right-hand man and hand picked successor. While the Prophet could neither read nor write, Ali would become a master poet & writer. The Prophet had no sons, so he allowed Ali to marry his daughter to become his son-in-law, and loved Ali's sons as his own.

4. The Companions of the Prophet. Usually this refers to the Prophet's closest advisers and companions, like an inner circle. Many of them were members of his clan and some were former enemies. This group includes Ali and the men who became the 1st 3 Caliphs.

5. First 4 Caliphs (usually called the "Rightly Guided Caliphs"). Once the Prophet died, the Companions selected one of their own as his successor (aka the Caliph). Ali & the Prophet's closest family members were preparing his body for burial at the time, and were not consulted until afterwards. Ali would eventually become an adviser to the 3rd Caliph. There was dissent among many of the Muslims who weren't among the Companions or their clans. Many of them supported Ali and were against what they felt was a lower social status. This boiled over during the 3rd Caliph's reign, who was killed in the process. Ali became the 4th Caliph.

6. Notable events after Ali becomes Caliph. There was a civil war in the Islamic empire pitting Caliph Ali vs. Muawiyah. Muawiyah was from the 3rd Caliph's clan, blamed Ali for the 3rd's death, and rejected Ali's claim to power. Ali agreed to settle the war through a 3rd party. The 3rd party, who was secretly allied with Muawiyah, deposed Ali from the throne and recognized Muawiyah as the 5th Caliph. Muawiyah oppressed Ali's family after this. Years later, Muawiyah's son Yazid would massacre Ali's son Hussein, as well as Hussein's family and entourage at Karbala, Iraq. Hussein was Ali's successor & the Prophet Muhammad's grandson. This is when the Sunni-Shia split erupted.

7. Kharijites. This was a group of zealots who fought during the civil war on Ali's side against Muawiyah. But once Ali agreed to step down as Caliph for peace, the Kharijites turned on him. Eventually the Kharijites ambushed and killed Ali. There have been several revival movements claiming the mantle of the Kharijites.

Below I'll list today's major denominations & how the points mentioned above affect their ideologies. This way you can understand things quite a bit better.

8. Salafi. More of a title or designation than a denomination. They're very strict observers of what they believe to be the teachings and traditions of all of the Companions, not just the Prophet. This is important. They view themselves as elite because they don't follow any "corruptions" introduced by outside groups (they're ultra conservatives). Also, powerful modern Salafi leaders may trace their lineage to the Prophet 's clan and/or the Companions. So this is just as much about their ancestors' ways as it is about religion. There have been many Salafi revival groups over time.

9. Shia Islam/Shiites. Technically, Shia were those who supported Ali and felt that he should have been the Caliph. They generally reject the first 3 Caliphs. They basically believe their way is the correct way since they are following the Prophet's decision (Ali as his successor), as well as the Prophet's bloodline (son-in-law Ali and grandson Hussein). There are an incredible number of Shiite denominations with vastly different beliefs. Some nearly worship Ali, some focus more on his son Hussein's teachings, etc. Either way, the Anniversary of Karbala (mentioned in #6) is a major day of mourning for Shiites and it can get pretty intense. Google it. Understandably, they hold a grudge against those who killed Ali & his descendants. Though Shiites have some separate teachings & traditions, they still follow the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sunna.

10. Sunni Islam/Sunnis. Sunnis are simply followers of the Sunna. Most also follow the Hadith. The Sunna and Hadith are supposedly the teachings & traditions of the Prophet Muhammad. They accept the Qur'an as the first authority, but in practice, many seem to focus more on the Sunna and Hadith. Many also follow the traditions of the Companions. Sunnis accept all of the first 4 Caliphs. Something like 90% of Muslims today identify as Sunnis, though Sunni Islam has different branches, sub-branches, and "schools of thought" within those branches. (This is because they interpret scriptures differently, may follow additional Sunna/Hadith, & may place different emphasis on different things.) Some Sunni schools of thought also accept some of the teachings of other "People of the Book/Scripture", like Jews & Christians.

11. Bukhari's Hadith. By far the most widely accepted Hadith, are considered authentic by most Muslims, and were compiled by a man named Bukhari more than 200 years after the Prophet died. The reason for the 200+ year gap is that the Prophet himself forbid following anything other than the Qur'an, as did the 1st 9 Caliphs. People started secretly compiling the teachings & traditions of the Prophet and his companions under the 10th Caliph (70 years after the Prophet had died). Bukhari compiled his collection more than a century after this. You can probably see why Salafis are similar to Sunnis, but don't consider themselves Sunnis (though some Sunnis consider themselves Salafis). And why "hardcore or extreme Salafis" reject Sunnis as being corrupted or "watered down".

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a reply to: enlightenedservant

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12. Wahabis. Started by a guy named Wahab in the late 1700s. Wahab's enemies claimed his family were actually from a form of Ultra-Orthodox Judaism. Wahabis are considered the successors of the Kharijites and/or successors of Muawiyah's son Yazid. If they truly are linked to Muawiyah & his son, that would mean they are linked to the 3rd Caliph (hence why they claim to be Salafis). As successors to the Kharijites (who killed Ali) and Yazid (who killed Ali's son & successor Hussein), you can see why they have a blood feud with Shiites.

13. "Radical Islam" and "Islamic extremism". . The vast majority of these terrorist groups & hate preachers are Wahabis. Wahabis target poor, disillusioned, & uneducated Sunnis to recruit them into what they call their "untainted" form of Islam. Osama bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, al-Nusra, and ISIS are Wahabis, while Boko Haram & al-Shabaab are either Wahabi or hardcore Salafi (I personally doubt they're Salafis but whatever). The Taliban are supposedly Wahabis as well, though I'm beginning to doubt this. Oh yeah, they hate being called Wahabis because of the negative connotation it has from events earlier Wahabis committed. So they consider themselves a form of Salafi.

14. Last but not least: Most Kurdish people are Sunnis. Turkey is also mostly Sunni but has a feud with the Kurdish people over territory. Saudi Arabia is mostly Arab & Sunni, but has some Shiites & many Wahabi dissidents and powerbrokers (the Saud family made a pact w/Wahabis a long time ago). Qatar is mostly Sunni & Wahabi, and Saudi Arabia & Qatar have the most powerful Wahabi powerbrokers. Wahabis hate Shiites, seem to hate Kurdish Sunnis, never attack Israel, and 75%-90% of their victims are other Muslims (because most Muslims reject them and their extremism). And of course, Saudi Arabia & the GCC have a "Cold War" against Iran over money, power & energy dominance. They can't beat Iran directly so they use their vast wealth to recruit Wahabi groups, the West, & their large Sunni-majority allies to fight their battles for them (hence the new push for a united army).

Hope this helps. Oh & this is the shortened version :p

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: enlightenedservant
Started by a guy named Wahab in the late 1700s. Wahab's enemies claimed his family were actually from a form of Ultra-Orthodox Judaism.

Can you be more exact with that claim. Wahab was born in Arab tribe Banu Tamim which is Ishmaelite tribe as all muslim tribes are. What makes it orthodox Judaism ?

So enemies calls his family to be Judaistic, its same as Putin calls Obama a monkey.. so where are the facts about this claim.

Wahhabist are sect of Sunni Islam. So is this just another hand washing denial claim when thinking about ME issues and why muslims want to kill each other.

I blame anyone of that religion that believes in the Jihad and "submission" through "subjugation" and spreading Islam by force.


If you are subscriber to the belief that all must submit to Islam and or Sharia Law or be killed, subjugated, taxed, or made a 2nd class (or worse) citizen then YOU are the problem period regardless of the prefix.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Dr. Yousaf Butt is a senior advisor to the British American Security Information Council and director at the Cultural Intelligence Institute. The views expressed here are his own.

LONDON -- The horrific terrorist attacks on the Charlie Hebdo weekly in Paris have led to speculation as to whether the killers -- the brothers Chérif and Saïd Kouachi -- were lone wolves or tied to masterminds in ISIS or its rival, Al-Qaeda. Although Al-Qaeda in Yemen has taken credit for the attack, it is unclear how closely the affiliate actually directed the operation.
No matter which organizational connections (if any) ultimately prove to be real, one thing is clear: the fountainhead of Islamic extremism that promotes and legitimizes such violence lies with the fanatical "Wahhabi" strain of Islam centered in Saudi Arabia. And if the world wants to tamp down and eliminate such violent extremism, it must confront this primary host and facilitator.

Here is an informative article supporting the OP's thesis.

It is called,

How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism

originally posted by: dollukka

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: enlightenedservant
Started by a guy named Wahab in the late 1700s. Wahab's enemies claimed his family were actually from a form of Ultra-Orthodox Judaism.

Can you be more exact with that claim. Wahab was born in Arab tribe Banu Tamim which is Ishmaelite tribe as all muslim tribes are. What makes it orthodox Judaism ?

So enemies calls his family to be Judaistic, its same as Putin calls Obama a monkey.. so where are the facts about this claim.

Wahhabist are sect of Sunni Islam. So is this just another hand washing denial claim when thinking about ME issues and why muslims want to kill each other.

Some enemies of the guy in his time said his actual family was from a form of Orthodox Judaism. They said they faked their family credentials. Others say he wasn't. There are a lot of controversies like that, depending on who you read or believe. I know the official story says what you said, but I felt the need to add what his detractors said about him at the time. There are similar claims about the House of Saud from their opponents, even though their official story is nothing like that. Same with Ataturk from Turkey and the Dönmeh.

2nd, there's no such thing as "Muslim tribes". Maybe you meant "Arab tribes", but Arabs can be of any religion (like the Arab Christians & Arabs who converted to Judaism).

3rd, Wahabis are NOT Sunnis. That's the whole point in this piece. They consider themselves Salafis, not Sunnis. Salafis aren't a branch of Sunni either. Salafis came before Sunnis. And while some Sunnis may consider themselves Salafis, Salafis don't consider themselves Sunnis.

Shiites and Sunnis have always hated each others, ever since Islam was born. Bloody wars about who can rule Islamic World.
After Mohammad died these two sects were born after they had an argument who is a valid person to rule Islamic World. Sunnis selected Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr as their leader and Shiites selected Muhammeds cousin and son in law Ali ibn Abi Talib as their leader as they believed that caliphate should be run in the family and direct descendants of Muhammed.
All lead to bloody civil war when Ali was murdered circa 650ad and ever since they have had fights and wars against each others. because both sides are in believe that they are right.

Fundamentalists who fights in ISIS and Al Quida are sunni muslims , Shiites have ansare hezbollah in Iran and hezbollah in lebanon, and in irak fundamentalist shiite parties etc.

In Middle East there is no country where Shiites and Sunnis live in peace together. Ever since 650 ad they have been in war which never ends.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Isn´t that a hearsay.. that is exactly how it sounds like.

originally posted by: dollukka
Shiites and Sunnis have always hated each others, ever since Islam was born. Bloody wars about who can rule Islamic World.
After Mohammad died these two sects were born after they had an argument who is a valid person to rule Islamic World. Sunnis selected Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr as their leader and Shiites selected Muhammeds cousin and son in law Ali ibn Abi Talib as their leader as they believed that caliphate should be run in the family and direct descendants of Muhammed.
All lead to bloody civil war when Ali was murdered circa 650ad and ever since they have had fights and wars against each others. because both sides are in believe that they are right.

Fundamentalists who fights in ISIS and Al Quida are sunni muslims , Shiites have ansare hezbollah in Iran and hezbollah in lebanon, and in irak fundamentalist shiite parties etc.

In Middle East there is no country where Shiites and Sunnis live in peace together. Ever since 650 ad they have been in war which never ends.

In other words, you didn't read the OP? LOL Well, there's not much else to say then.

Though I will leave it with this: In the 80s, the propaganda was Arab vs Persian, not Sunni vs Shiite. Iiraq's war with Iran is a perfect example. Iraq was roughly 60% Arab Shiite, 10% Kurdish (who are almost 90% Sunnis), 10% Arab Christian, and the rest were mostly Arab Sunnis. Yet Saddam Hussein (an Arab Sunni) massacred the Kurdish Sunnis while leading an Arab Shiite majority country to war against Iran (which is mostly Persian Shiites). How does that fit into your narrative?

And Syria is mostly Arab Sunnis, but they are supporting their Arab Shiite leader Assad. How does that fit into your narrative, as well?

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Isn´t that a hearsay.. that is exactly how it sounds like.

The 2nd paragraph in my OP clearly states:

Oh & there are many different schools of thought in Islam, so some might not agree with some of my wordings (kind of like Christians debating Paul or Peter).

It will take an entire book if I mention every official story and its opposing theories. And for the record, the entire Sunna & Hadith are all hearsay, if we're being technical. Though you should probably read the OP. You keep replying & mentioning things I've already covered...

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I did read your OP which was a bit misleading. In iraq war Sunnis and Shiites both wanted Saddam to go, well if you think what Saddam was alike, there is no wonder.
Are you saying that in Syria there has been no conflicts between Shiites and Sunnis? Now it´s happening in Yemen.

a reply to: dollukka

Wahhabis are not a sect of Sunni Islam.



Your lack of knowledge is the reason most western mouthpieces claim it's all sectarian instead of political and monetary gain to be had...




None of these people care about the Day of Judgement, nor the Prophet (PBUH)...or Allah (SWT)


Wahhabis follow Al Wahhab (INFILTRATION JERK OFF)... Not Muhammad (PBUH)!!!


So please stop lying to ATS with knowingly false information.



Read this ...
www.differencebetween.net...

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I did read your OP which was a bit misleading. In iraq war Sunnis and Shiites both wanted Saddam to go, well if you think what Saddam was alike, there is no wonder.
Are you saying that in Syria there has been no conflicts between Shiites and Sunnis? Now it´s happening in Yemen.

What are you talking about? You are aware of the 1980-1988 Iran vs Iraq War, right? If not, you should probably look into that. I even said in the '80s. And you clearly didn't read the OP because you mentioned what I wrote in #3-#6 as if you were presenting new info to me. When I'd already addressed it in the OP...

And for the record, Yemen's citizens support the Houthis. That includes Yemen's Sunnis. But if you only get your info from the Saudis and their allies, you wouldn't know that since they're the main ones trying to make it Sunni vs Shiite.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

So both sides has same denial according Wahhabis.. Because Osama Bin Laden known wahhabist ( Al Quida sunni ) ?

a reply to: dollukka

Syria and Iraq are identical...

They didn't start sectarian...


Syria...
Shiite leader...
Treats Sunnis as a sub human class along with his father for 4 decades...
Sunnis rise up for equality...
Extremist Shiites (not Shiites in general) happy with the current standpoint fight for this "leader"...
Syria is now ruined...


Iraq...
Sunni leader...
Treats Kurds & Shia as sub human class for 3 decades...
Shias rise up for equality...
Extremist Sunnis (not Sunnis in general) happy with the current standpoint fight for this "leader"...
Iraq is now ruined...



Please stop conflating sectarian nonsense between a minority as what has occured over those decades!!!

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

So both sides has same denial according Wahhabis.. Because Osama Bin Laden known wahhabist ( Al Quida sunni ) ?

Who says Al Qaeda are Sunnis?
Wikipaedia...
Sh#tty media...
Western Leaders...
Al Qaeda themselves...

All full of it!


They're Wahhabi to the core!!!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

As Sunnis and Shiites are constantly trying to kill each other, i just wonder why their God hates his people so much that they can´t live in peace.. i think it is a valid question.

I think the ones to blame in this place is "the prophets" (or what people believe they taught) who did not do a good enough job to create a peaceful spiritual religions that cannot be used for war.

In Islam that is Muhammad.
In Christian faith it is Paul.

There have been millions of people like Jesus, Buddha, Nanak and Rumi sent and still humanity listen to the ones caught up in duality that have not outgrown the small mindedness. Creating warped culture unsanctioned on the highest levels de evolving human kind, instead of evolving human kind spiritually.

I wished the Qur'an was the master piece many think it is and gave true high level insight into the nature of god and the connection to all souls.

When you want someone to fight Hezbollah (Shia) then you fund the Wahhabis/Salafi (Sunni fundamentalist side)

a reply to: infolurker

I believe in Jihad and submission to Allah and protecting that by force...

So do 99% of Muslims...

Because that's what Jihad is.


"No compulsion in faith"...

You know what that means?

"Let them believe what they choose, believe what you choose"...

Know what that means?




The tax is payed by Muslims as well...
It's called Zakat (charity) and anyone in Muslims lands has to pay it...



You pay your taxes to your government yes?

Imagine a Muslims saying "I'm not paying it"...

You call them a welfare scumbag!

a reply to: dollukka

Shiites and Sunnis have always hated each others, ever since Islam was born.

More lies!!!


Shia & Sunni never existed when "Islam was born"...

So how do you presuppose such nonsense to spout as factual?


ATS frowns upon your strategy!!!