Are people praying wrong or is the bible wrong?

a reply to: theantediluvian

That's the most full of # thing Ive read this week.

It's the exact same name, coming from one origin, and it did not originate in Christians, who say it's name most frequently, today.

Amin, amen, amon, Aman. .. it only matters how you write it in English. .. the origination of that specific phonetic, predates Christianity by a long shot.

They have no relation to the deity Amun, they should not be tributing their prayers to him.

End of story my friend.

What is commonly called the “Lords prayer” is not a prayer at all.It is part and parcel of the general myopic blindness of the religious carnal mind.The whole discourse from Matthew5 -7 was directly to Yahoshua’s disciples.He was not “teaching” a mass of people on the “mount”.

Yahoshua was clarifying to the disciples that “prayer” done the religious mans(heathens including the Jews) way is futile and meaningless.He wasn’t introducing a “new methodology of how to pray but clarifying what prayer is.

He was simply stating prayer is communication with the creator God and the source is ALWAYS initiated by the creator not man.Man’s method of religious prayer is the diametric opposite because they try to initiate by babbling away.What is called the Lords prayer are statements of what prayer is and how it works not a prayer.

Our father who is in your heavens(mind), hollowed(perfect) is their name(nature and character).Their kingdom has come and their will is done in earth as it is in your heavens….. etc etc……

Religion has twisted it to mean something completely different.Praying these “statements” as a prayer(and praying like that in general) is exactly what Yahoshua was pointing out is futile yet multiple billions have done it (and will continue) when Yahoshua clearly stated they are meaningless words.That is the foundation for extreme cognitive dissonance.

Mans religious prayer is a way to hold the creator God at arms length and convince themselves their God is real when in fact the God being prayed to is not a real God at all but is the person themselves.Yahoshua points out the vanity of that endeavor by saying the creator God is very aware of all of your situations why are you striving to inform them and give them instructions.

The bottom line is there is not is not a lot of prayer listening going on but a whole lot of babbling. Yahoshua was stating prayer is communication “from” the creator God “to” a person for their benefit by informing and comforting and providing for that person.Prayer is 100% listening.Anything else is the inane babel of heathens(the religious mind).

a reply to: TexasSeabee
Forget all of that flowery crap in the Bible about being nice and not committing sin that should just come to the human species naturally.
What you need to concentrate on is stuff like Genesis 1 Chapter 26 the Let us make him in our image . You also need to figure out who the Nephilim were, and what was Ezekiel's wheel all about. Why is the story of the garden of Eden similar to the story that Sitchin discovered on the Sumerian tablets.
When you get caught up in all of that extraneous BS about Christians this, Jews that and Muslims also crap you miss the story of how we got here and what are experience is about.

originally posted by: Elementalist
"Are people praying wrong?".


Secondly, when ending a prayer with "Amen"; the prayeree (lol) is tributing their prayer to Amen-Ra the much more ancient deity.


Do Christians know who Amen-Ra is? They sure say his name a lot.. I think Christians pray proper other then tri uting their prayer to something else unrelated

What a load of tripe. Maybe more real research instead of watching Zeitgeist is in order.

The word amen (/ˌɑːˈmɛn/ or /ˌeɪˈmɛn/; Hebrew: אָמֵן, Modern amen, Tiberian ʾāmēn; Greek: ἀμήν; Arabic: آمين‎, ʾāmīn ; "So be it; truly") is a declaration of affirmation[1][2] found in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. Its use in Judaism dates back to its earliest texts.[3] It has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns.[2] In Islam, it is the standard ending to Dua (supplication). Common English translations of the word amen include "verily" and "truly". It can also be used colloquially to express strong agreement,[2] as in, for instance, amen to that.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Elementalist



Guten Tag-

Is Ra el?

I think the basis of people praying in a congregation instead of in private stems from this verse,

Matthew 18:20 : "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them."

a reply to: Rex282


That is absolutely incorrect. The scriptures in question are from the sermon on the mount in which Jesus addressed a large number of people, which in backed up from statements in the other gospels. Perfect example of "interpreting" the bible to fit your beliefs instead of making your beliefs fit the bible. Either Jesus' words are true and to the point and not to be "interpreted" or they are just more words in a book. You can't have it both ways to suit your needs at the time. Just like the constitution, saying "the founders wrote and said this, but they what they really meant was this" is just plain ridiculous.

originally posted by: TexasSeabee
a reply to: Rex282


That is absolutely incorrect. The scriptures in question are from the sermon on the mount in which Jesus addressed a large number of people, which in backed up from statements in the other gospels. Perfect example of "interpreting" the bible to fit your beliefs instead of making your beliefs fit the bible. Either Jesus' words are true and to the point and not to be "interpreted" or they are just more words in a book. You can't have it both ways to suit your needs at the time. Just like the constitution, saying "the founders wrote and said this, but they what they really meant was this" is just plain ridiculous.

In the last verse of Matthew 4 the multitudes are following after Yahoshua to get healed so what follows is in Matthew 5 .


"And seeing the multitudes, he went up into the mountain: and when he had sat down, his disciples came unto him:"

Clearly he was escaping the multitudes that’s why he went up into the mountain.He sat down with his disciples.No one else is mentioned .The Christian extrapolation is the multitudes followed him yet the scriptures don’t say that nor does the context.

The rest of Matthew 5-7 are extrapolated by Christianity and made into doctrines also and doing exactly what you accuse me of doing…. believing in the traditions of men they have made void the living word of God.

It is very clear what is called the Lords prayer is not prayer.Yahoshua was telling the disciples that asking for anything is futile the creator God already knows all of a persons needs which is 100% about “listening” which is impossible while you are talking or thinking about yourself.

It is Christianity that has twisted the scriptures to fit their beliefs not me. Christianity is the religious state of mind that is at complete enmity and is an adversary (satan) of the creator God.

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: TexasSeabee
a reply to: Rex282

It is very clear what is called the Lords prayer is not prayer.Yahoshua was telling the disciples that asking for anything is futile the creator God already knows all of a persons needs which is 100% about “listening” which is impossible while you are talking or thinking about yourself.

It is Christianity that has twisted the scriptures to fit their beliefs not me. Christianity is the religious state of mind that is at complete enmity and is an adversary (satan) of the creator God.

The other day I was watching a video on Youtube and if you go to the 52:18 mark on the video below it talks about the Lords Prayer being a geometric prayer meditation and the original prayer (not the extended version) lines up with the 7 body chakras.

a reply to: Rex282

Or perhaps he was clearly getting higher so everyone could hear him and he wanted his disciples to be the closest so they could hear the best. And if its not a prayer why does he say "When you pray, pray like this"? It doesn't matter this goes way past what my original point was. Thanks...

I'm an ex catholic, gnostic universal, free thinking, Christian, Christ Consciousness, adult, or at least striving towards growing up from the childish things.

But my prayers are answered, all my life, from childhood, before I encountered religion but was wanting to know why I was here, instant answers came in dreams from 2 on, I asked from 2 on, Higher Self stepped in just around or before kindergarden, when vietnam was on the news, napalmed babies, and I was outside sorting it all out and deciding adults were insane in the membrane , humans had learned little in thousands of years as my father a science teacher had taught us we evolved slowly and came out of the jungles. So it was up to kids to show the way, and then an adult, Me, stepped in and told me I had chose to come. It was an experience that took many years of thinking on it, finally encountered the term, Higher Self, to understand what it meant, because it was very real, and my soul at that time recognized, knew, for that moment, this was myself, grow up version.

Then as a Christian, and now. Providence always occurs. I don't always get what I think I want, but most often what we need.

And praying for health concerns for others, domino effects that may seem bad, ending in something very good, can occur the very next day.

Or a problem you've taken into prayer, you step outside into the sunshine and downloads of information begin.....

Prayers aren't just Christian, and they don't just end in "AMEN", there are many formats, and I can personally attest to experiencing answers, and help for family issues, and daily miracles, in all of those formats, the natural childlike ones, outside of religion, the religious ones, and in the gnostic.

We have a Terrific Team of Good Family watching over.

a reply to: TexasSeabee

Well the issue I see is your taking a couple verses and building an idea that does not cohere with the rest of scripture.

1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven

This verse doesn't say don't let others see your practicing righteousness. It says be careful not to do righteous works for praise from others. Do what is righteous simply because you are kind and good not because others will applaud you for it. The same idea follows to the rest of the verses. Do those things out of love for someone else and not for the praise it may bring.

So what I get from this, which is DIRECTLY FROM JESUS, keep your relationship with God to yourself and be nice to people

Matthew 28
" "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, "

Mark 16:15 also say something about spreading the word, but the earliest manuscripts don't hold that verse.

The reason Christians try and share what they know is because as you can see Jesus tells us to make disciples of all nations, and not only they do it out of love for that other person. God will one day judge the world:

Matthew 12
"36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

John 12
47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day

Jer. 9:24: “But let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, exercising loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” says the LORD.

B.B. Warfeild said “It is not difficult to understand why a just God does not save sinners, but how a just God saves any sinners.”

What do you think he means by this?

I personally think that B.B. Warfeild realized the dilemma God was put in when his creatures rebelled. Now I call it a dilemma from human perspective not the perspective of God. You see if God is perfectly Just, and lets one sinner go without judgment then God is no longer perfectly Just. If God is perfectly merciful, and doesn't show love and mercy rather than judgement to every person God is no longer perfectly merciful. So it becomes difficult to understand how God is to act without impending upon one of his perfect attributes. God's answer to this was Christ. Those under the law of Grace will be judged based upon the righteousness of Christ who paid the bride price(term comes from 1st century jewish wedding customs) for his Wife(the Church).

a reply to: Rex282

The rest of Matthew 5-7 are extrapolated by Christianity and made into doctrines also and doing exactly what you accuse me of doing…. believing in the traditions of men they have made void the living word of God. It is very clear what is called the Lords prayer is not prayer.Yahoshua was telling the disciples that asking for anything is futile the creator God already knows all of a persons needs which is 100% about “listening” which is impossible while you are talking or thinking about yourself. It is Christianity that has twisted the scriptures to fit their beliefs not me. Christianity is the religious state of mind that is at complete enmity and is an adversary (satan) of the creator God.

Rex,
I am not following you. You keep referencing Matthew 5-7. Do you mean Matthew 5:7 which is not "The Lords Prayer?"

Also what do you mean by Christianity has twisted their scriptures to suit their beliefs?

You are aware that the word Christianity does not truly reference most all of today's religions who are defined as Christianity? RCC, LDS, JW's and a host of others are not Christian by the standards of the first century Christians. In fact most all do not even agree among themselves. If you were to says Christianities then that would be somewhat more but not accurate.

Are you aware that the true Christian is still the Messianic Jew?

a reply to: Elementalist

Your just being silly man. Amen stems from the Hebrew word "Aman." The word means "so it is" or "truly." It is an affirmation of something that has just been said. Which is why when people like what the pastor said you might here someone say "Amen." It has nothing to do with attributing a prayer to anyone. It is simply a declaration of a persons affirmation of some statement.

Amen at the end of prayers has become a custom over time, but imo it doesn't always have a place. I normally use it after a prayer to mean that either the prayer was true or if it was a question to directed to God I may use it to mean that I truly want to know something.

Actually, I think most of us do their praying and acts of charity in private.

It's the ones who are "getting their reward in full", (now, through animated and self-serving / self aggrandizing speech) that you are mainly hearing from here and elsewhere. Most of us? Quiet as church mice.

Think about it.

.........

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Rex282

The rest of Matthew 5-7 are extrapolated by Christianity and made into doctrines also and doing exactly what you accuse me of doing…. believing in the traditions of men they have made void the living word of God. It is very clear what is called the Lords prayer is not prayer.Yahoshua was telling the disciples that asking for anything is futile the creator God already knows all of a persons needs which is 100% about “listening” which is impossible while you are talking or thinking about yourself. It is Christianity that has twisted the scriptures to fit their beliefs not me. Christianity is the religious state of mind that is at complete enmity and is an adversary (satan) of the creator God.

Rex,
I am not following you. You keep referencing Matthew 5-7. Do you mean Matthew 5:7 which is not "The Lords Prayer?"

Also what do you mean by Christianity has twisted their scriptures to suit their beliefs?

You are aware that the word Christianity does not truly reference most all of today's religions who are defined as Christianity? RCC, LDS, JW's and a host of others are not Christian by the standards of the first century Christians. In fact most all do not even agree among themselves. If you were to says Christianities then that would be somewhat more but not accurate.

Are you aware that the true Christian is still the Messianic Jew?

I am referring to Matthew chapters 5-7 which is what is called the sermon on the mount and is not. It is Yahoshua speaking to his disciples only.

Yes I am very aware of the multitude of sects that call themselves Christians.However the only requirement for being a Christian is believing you are a Christian.None of their doctrines(including the Messianic Jew) are more true than others because they are all false and is only a belief in a religious Belief System and it is not “knowing” the creator God.

This should be evident by one of your statements that there are a multitude of Christian sects and even they do not agree.It is because they have done exactly as Yahoshua said they would.They make void the living word of the creator God (which is not the bible) by their traditions of men (the bible) which is my main point.

If even one of their doctrines were true there would possibly be some credibility in Christianity however none of them are true.Even a little leaven corrupts the whole lump of dough.There is no need to espouse on each one because they are self evident.Christianity is no different than the doctrines of the Pharisee and Sadducee and scribes.It is a false belief in a false God created in their own image.Yahoshua rightly said to the disciples:

“Do not be deceived. For many will come in my name saying they are christ and will deceive many.”

He was speaking of Christendom and its fringes(independents,messianic Jews etc,etc...).Yahoshua knew very well what would happen.The apostle John also wrote of the first Christians and called them antichrists.The fact is neither Yahoshua nor the disciples started a new religion called Christianity nor were they Christians.

I am positive 100% of all Christians will not believe they are antichrist’s yet Yahoshua said they were because Christianity is deceived AND are deceivers and they cannot perceive what is clearly stated in the scriptures nor "hear" what the creator God is saying to them in prayer.