Putin Sacks Sakhalin Governor Khoroshavin on Grounds of Mistrust - Kremlin

a reply to: Krasnay

Haunting pictures show desperate struggle to survive in last days of USSR Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: Krasnay
Blame a Georgian and a Ukrainian if you must (Stalin and then Kruschev) as they chaired the USSR over those times.

Can you enlighten me how Ukrainian or georgians were a fault of that? What about Holodomor which killed millions of people in Ukraine when all the food was transported to feed Russians ?

Index mundi.. people living in Russia with HIV/Aids

originally posted by: Krasnay
a reply to: stumason

AS you said, it was supplies (such as fuel, food, "spam") and equipment that was sent - not money. It did not need an economy to use them. It did however place the USSR in America's debt, which even Stalin graciously acknowledged.

Er, yeah, because the "economy" of the USSR was totally unable to produce what it needed, which brings me back to your original point that Russia could fight a war without a functioning economy - they cannot, no one can. Without all that material aid, the USSR would have been rolled.

a reply to: Krasnay

Really?

Then why did the US provide lend lease to Russia during WWII?

If they are self sufficient then there was no need for them to ask for our help. There would have been no need for Stalin to continually demand a front be opened in the west to pull pressure off of them on the eastern front.

Absent that Russia, like the US, has not fought a global war since so your claimed is about 70+ years out of date.

a reply to: dollukka

What does you link provided how? You have it in for bubushkas? They are probably still sat there.

The "Holodomor"?

Sure it happened, as did a wider famine across much of the Soviet Union at the same time which affected Russian just as badly.

Interestingly, the famine in Ukraine was markedly worse in Russian areas of Ukraine (south and east) and the North Caucasus, whilst the western regions of Ukraine (yes, those very same areas that hate the Russians and are the main farming area of Ukraine) experienced no famine...

But I think we digress from the topic of the OP

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Krasnay

Really?

Then why did the US provide lend lease to Russia during WWII?

If they are self sufficient then there was no need for them to ask for our help.

A bit late to the party Xcathdra,

As we have been discussing, due to the Nazi occupation of western USSR much of its industrial capacity was either destroyed or dismantled to be rebuilt east. The Nazis reached the outskirts of Moscow. I think you can still see the tank traps if you drive from Sheremetyevo Airport into Moscow.

I'm not going to argue about how effective the aid was. That is commonly known and acknowledged. I think we differ in understanding that the USSR had no functioning capitalist economy or market economy. In fact it had very little industrial capacity - it was either destroyed of in pieces.

Soviets were starving (the farms were destroyed and occupied) and needed all sorts of supplies. Industrial capacity such as oil production, engine building, aircraft building all needed to be enhanced or rebuilt east of Moscow. Aid was a massive benefit to the USSR in counter-attacking the Nazis. But in the end, the Soviets did it in the main with their own tanks, ammunition and aircraft. Oh, and millions of lives.

a reply to: Krasnay

Your the one making the argument Russia is used to fighting a war with reduced infrastructure. The fact the last time they did that was WWII says a lot about how out of touch that view point is today. The other point was Russia didn't do it on their own. They had to have help.


Putin is taking Russia backwards and as history shows, the Russian leadership is rarely if ever affected by economic conditions that the Russian people face.

a reply to: Xcathdra

and I'm saying we are way off topic. We got here because someone wanted to know why I thought Russia would win a war it fought... I think you started that:

Not at all which is why I state Putin needs to go away before he starts a war he cant win.

But, off topic.

originally posted by: Krasnay

Interestingly, the famine in Ukraine was markedly worse in Russian areas of Ukraine (south and east) and the North Caucasus, whilst the western regions of Ukraine (yes, those very same areas that hate the Russians and are the main farming area of Ukraine) experienced no famine...

Famine map of Ukraine

a reply to: Krasnay

You said it yourself right there - the USSR had no functioning economy (capitalist free market or centrally planned, it matters not) and relied on Aid sent by the West (mainly the US but also the UK) to feed it's soldiers, provide them with ammunition and weapons to fight.

Without the aid, what exactly would have stopped the USSR from folding in the face of the German advance?

Nothing.

a reply to: stumason

And your point is?

I'm not sure anyone is arguing against you here.

originally posted by: Krasnay
a reply to: Xcathdra

and I'm saying we are way off topic. We got here because someone wanted to know why I thought Russia would win a war it fought... I think you started that:

Not at all which is why I state Putin needs to go away before he starts a war he cant win.

But, off topic.

So you get called out and proven wrong and now its off topic. By the way its not Russian Ukraine. more accurately it would be Russian occupied Ukraine.

Ok, what would you like o talk about? Maybe pick something you understand and know something about it?

a reply to: Krasnay

You know full well what my point is - you made the contention that Russia can fight (and win) a war without a functioning economy, unlike a Western nation. I have demonstrated that is simply not true - they needed Western aid to continue the fight when their economy was shattered during the fight with Germany, without which, they would have been rolled over.

a reply to: Xcathdra

In what way was I proven wrong? On most of the issue we agree. On what we may disagree is the hypothetical impact an absence of aid may have had. I never discussed that at all. But others did.

You aggressive tone is most insulting. I suggest you get off your anti-Putin high horse and respect others.

You may be a happier person.

a reply to: Krasnay

As for being proven wrong see Stumasons post above this one for your answer.

Respect is earned... something putin does not seem to grasp.

And I don't think I will get off my anti Putin horse. The guy is dangerous and a nut ball and needs to be removed before he kills millions with his ass hattery.

a reply to: Xcathdra

What are you on about?

By the way its not Russian Ukraine. more accurately it would be Russian occupied Ukraine.

I never even said that. You are being duplicitous.

originally posted by: Krasnay
a reply to: Xcathdra

What are you on about?

By the way its not Russian Ukraine. more accurately it would be Russian occupied Ukraine.

I never even said that. You are being duplicitous.

Here - www.abovetopsecret.com...
and you are being intentionally ignorant. You said -

Interestingly, the famine in Ukraine was markedly worse in Russian areas of Ukraine (south and east) and the North Caucasus, whilst the western regions of Ukraine (yes, those very same areas that hate the Russians and are the main farming area of Ukraine) experienced no famine...

Russian areas of Ukraine? They are not Russian areas, they are Ukrainian areas where Russians live.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Preaching hatred and murder is not good. Some people would be very interested in talking to you I am sure. Advocating the killing of a national leader is criminal, you do know?

originally posted by: Krasnay
a reply to: Xcathdra

Preaching hatred and murder is not good. Some people would be very interested in talking to you I am sure. Advocating the killing of a national leader is criminal, you do know?

now who is being duplicitous?

by all means point out where I said he should be killed?

originally posted by: Krasnay
a reply to: Xcathdra

LOL, talk about twisting words. So sad.

You don't seem to mind twisting others words... Your ability to try and change the topic so people don't continue to see you made incorrect claims and then tried to back out of them is interesting.