Paul (Pharisees) tricked Rome to kill for the god of israel and started a huge spiritual war

Rome controlled Israel and Israel used that as an opportunity to get them to conquer in the name of yahweh. Yahweh is not just an israeli war god - now he could be everyone's god. They mixed Jesus, yahweh, and already existing beliefs from sun worship like "light" and being "children of the day". Jesus can be a israeli version of sun worship and the few moon worshipers could believe in Mary the virgin mother.

Rome went against the Nordics.
The Romans spread and times changed but the spiritual battle went on. It eventually became the English vs French.

Light/Sun beliefs were combined with Jesus to make Rome comfortable to conquer for the god of israel
Moon/holy virgin beliefs combined with Mary.

Paul and Josephus saw Rome as holy. Romans 13 is Paul saying the powers that be are all of God and to resist is to receive condemnation.

Rome was to be the one world government and Christianity (Jesus written about with these Pagan influences to make it easier to accept) was the one world religion. Non-believers were tied to sticks and burnt.

The Romans thought. If we can't conquer the world through the sword, then we will do so through the cross.

Stories of Jesus and Mary used to deceive people to the moon/night worship and war god yahweh.


Now people like the blood moon rituals and await their god of darkness.

Paul didn't exactly trick Rome, Rome employed Paul to destroy the movement from the inside out. They used him to infiltrate the movement and plant false teachings under the name of Jesus. The Romans are the ones who canonized Paul's teachings, Paul was one of their top Pharisees (Caiaphas in my opinion, or maybe even Thephilus) who faked a conversion on their behalf then taught Pharisaic doctrines of sacrifice for the atoning of sins. This essentially changed Jesus' message of good works into faith alone, nullifying Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness and giving people a scapegoat to sin as much as they want.

Rome used religious and cultural diffusion to stay afloat for so long, they took other people's ideas and turned them into their own. This is what they did with Jesus' teachings in my opinion, took his teachings on love then made him into a sacrifice for sins. Jesus taught love above sacrifice, Paul teaches sacrifice above love.

S&F

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Paul didn't exactly trick Rome, Rome employed Paul to destroy the movement from the inside out. They used him to infiltrate the movement and plant false teachings under the name of Jesus. The Romans are the ones who canonized Paul's teachings, Paul was one of their top Pharisees (Caiaphas in my opinion, or maybe even Thephilus) who faked a conversion on their behalf then taught Pharisaic doctrines of sacrifice for the atoning of sins. This essentially changed Jesus' message of good works into faith alone, nullifying Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness and giving people a scapegoat to sin as much as they want.

Rome used religious and cultural diffusion to stay afloat for so long, they took other people's ideas and turned them into their own. This is what they did with Jesus' teachings in my opinion, took his teachings on love then made him into a sacrifice for sins. Jesus taught love above sacrifice, Paul teaches sacrifice above love.

S&F

Now you might go into shock but I agree with you to an extent BUT remember this - one man or many translation errors are no reason to discard an entire religion based on a few misguided people. Lets not forget that the bible has many stories but it has an agenda - to follow and accept the one true God who rules in heaven.

BTW...... free will can be a curse.

Lawrence Gardener has many books that covers this aspect. It's considered alternative history. Don't let that title scare you off. If very interesting reading.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I throw out Paul's teachings, I keep those of Jesus. Paul is religion, Jesus is a way of life. Paul is division, Jesus is unity.

I throw out anything that does not agree with Jesus, and those things that do agree with Jesus, Jesus already said them. Paul has some great teachings on love, but he was only doing lip service to what Jesus already said before him in order to entice people toward the lies he spread. He tries to usurp the word of Jesus and for the most part he has been successful, on both the Christian and atheist sides of the debate.

Jesus said if you forgive others then you are forgiven, Paul says that if you believe in a sacrifice then you are forgiven with no other options, even forgiveness towards others does not matter if you don't believe in the sacrifice he promoted. He effectively cut people off from the true teachings of Jesus and replaced them with his own doctrine, the doctrine that has split into 40,000 different denominations.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Paul didn't exactly trick Rome, Rome employed Paul to destroy the movement from the inside out. They used him to infiltrate the movement and plant false teachings under the name of Jesus. The Romans are the ones who canonized Paul's teachings, Paul was one of their top Pharisees (Caiaphas in my opinion, or maybe even Thephilus) who faked a conversion on their behalf then taught Pharisaic doctrines of sacrifice for the atoning of sins. This essentially changed Jesus' message of good works into faith alone, nullifying Jesus' teachings on love and forgiveness and giving people a scapegoat to sin as much as they want.

Rome used religious and cultural diffusion to stay afloat for so long, they took other people's ideas and turned them into their own. This is what they did with Jesus' teachings in my opinion, took his teachings on love then made him into a sacrifice for sins. Jesus taught love above sacrifice, Paul teaches sacrifice above love.

S&F

to answer this question correctly, you have to go to the root of the "sin" doctrine, which is waaaaaaaaaaay back in the book of genesis. notice that the first verses about the creation of the adam males and females, instructs them to go forth, be fruitful and MULTIPLY. what did it mean, to "multiply"? well, later you find out that multiplying is synonmous with knowledge, for example, ADAM KNEW HIS WIFE AND SHE BEGAT. he knew her? you mean the tree of knowledge that was what supposedly causes us to be condemned by "god", is actually about multiplying? (you know, to multiply either means to have sex/procreate or to create more clone image copies of elohim. take your pick)

so what did the adam do wrong? either god has a short term memory or the god who created the adam males and females is not the same god that condemned us for multiplying (having knowledge). so the idea we needed good works to nullify sin, is about as lame as the idea we needed to shed the blood of innocent animals, to nullify sin. but here's the clincher:

the god who owns this planet, like a piece of galactic real estate, demands blood sacrifice, so jesus, who told us to go forth and multiply, had to run interference for us. the god who owns the planet essentially told him, if he loved his human creation so much, he could prove it by sacrificing himself, and so he did, but in exchange, the god who owns the planet is going to lose his title of ownership to jesus. he didn't think jesus could do it, while in a human body, because he knows his divine law is literally impossible to keep -- not because humans are that bad but because it was written in such a way that you were damned if you did and damned if you didn't, so the powers in charge could pick and choose who they wanted to succeed in life and everyone else was condemned.

a reply to: undo

Except:

John 18
36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. So Satan relinquishing his ownership of this world to Jesus does not align with what scripture says.

Let's ignore the fact that his servants (Peter) DID fight to prevent his arrest by the Jewish authorities by pulling his (Peter's) sword out and cutting the ear of a soldier off. Jesus tells him to put his sword away to fulfill scripture but then goes on to say that no one fought against his arrest? That's just one of many contradictions contained in the bible, but that's for another thread.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You know if you Do what jesus says to do you are doing works. If you treat others right,you are doing works. Add that and faith and you cant go wrong.

a reply to: yuppa

Romans 7
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

According to Paul he did not do what Jesus said to do, but the opposite. Paul says that this is okay as long as you believe in the sacrifice.

So basically, sin all you want, it can't be avoided anyways, and Jesus dying is your scapegoat to feel okay for the sin you commit. Basically he says that faith without works saves, Jesus says the one who doesn't do good works has a house with no foundation.

According to Jesus, Paul built a house with no foundation. This is why I reject Paul, he slaps Jesus in the face with his doctrine.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. So Satan relinquishing his ownership of this world to Jesus does not align with what scripture says.

how then do you explain new city jerusalem?

We have been lied for 5000 years with the faked story of the flood written by Moses thousand years later.

We don't have much evidence of what Jesus indeed said or did on Earth. We have books written at the end of 2nd century or 3rd century (that makes some 150+ years after Jesus and 100 years after the death of the apostles, AT BEST).

We don't even have rewritten Gospels by Rome. We have COMPOSED Gospels by Rome. The very word Gospel or Evangelium was used before to announce the Evangelium =Good news of the Emperor to his subjects.

What was the true story of Jesus we could only wonder.

Paul is a total fake. His own writings are not found from the time he presumably lived in. As well as the rest of the NT. Are we speaking of a historical Paul and of a Paul who wrote his letters a century or two later?

The numerous newly discovered apocrypha Gospels all talk of Jesus being married. Since they were persecuted, they might be much closer to the truth, therefore persecuted by Rome.


If Jesus had descendants, that would be the gravest danger for imperial Rome (and any other earthly empire). Therefore any record of that was erased, together with the people who wrote /preserved it.

Did Jesus indeed moved to cloud to go to heaven? Did he go to another planet? Was there a UFO inside the cloud on Ascension? We don'tknow, we can only guess.

I guess, for 1980+ years in raised state, Jesus could have many more descendants over there, whether it is the final highest heaven of God, or other planets.

We should consider ourselves extremely happy if a son or daughter of Jesus decide our suffering is over and come with extraterrestrial fleet to liberate us.

But perhaps humanity doesn't deserve that. Perhaps it will be left to its own made nightmare and will die off in the nuclear flames of "hell".

Few may be saved though, physically, if there is any reason to continue the false experiment with Hmo sapience within this body.

If Jesus came to save us, it is also to save our body not only our souls. By definition our souls are immortal anyway. And we didn't make the damned original sin, to be condemned for that to hell!

Most of us didn't do any major sin their entire life, i.e. killing etc. What repentance then we are constantly asked for? To inflict on us the damaged conscience and eternal fear of punishment, therefore the control system of Roman pagan gods/evil aliens.

The exit of that devious circle could be found today. It suffice the pope together with other leaders to admit the falsifying history and books, and to canonize the true books. Perhaps there are many more we don't know about.

I don't know whether Francis will have that strength, whether he will be allowed to do that by the establishment. But he is the pope after all, the sovereign of the state and church!

If that is not done, the humanity will go down the road of not only nuclear annihilation, but also separation into pockets of survivors who will have their own teachings. No one will care for today's hierarchy. I don't know what truth they will be told and by whom (by aliens?) but I know it will be different from today's paradigm.

You may add any other celestial event to that.

Will the pope do it? If not, he could resign but also he could appoint others to do it instead. Like for example 1000-2000 new cardinals not among the establishment. If there is a will to preserve what they call of "the church of Jesus Christ on Earth" etc wordings. If it is worth to preserve anything. Let they decide.

We who survive (may be not me personally) will decide tomorrow after the current nightmare is done. I guess the survivors some generations later will not be merciful to today's generation of those in power, in their historic judgment.

Whether ET will come to fix and save us, actually they are already here. Michael is one of them. The fact they don't help us much, beyond of that to keep us alive from the evil aliens, shows the humanity as civilization is already finished. But may be some individuals will continue. As Jesus raised from the death.

Let those in power in the churches listen to the voices of the people and do not repeat useless homilies this Easter. It could be their last opportunity to repent. If someone must repent it is the churches' leaders, not only for their own personal deeds, but also much more for the historical guilt accumulated over 2000 years. Let those who speak of repentance do it themselves! One "tomorrow" it will be irreversibly late and they will not be mentioned anymore with any good.

Here is one possible plan of action if there is any concern of the Church and God's people, and if they are not already sacrificed to false gods.

1. Pope Francis starts on Palm Sunday breakthru homilies on secret gospels (that are nothing secret anymore). He starts telling us the truth of Jesus.

2. Added to that, alien craft and aliens appear. Be they Medvedev's (it wasn't joke) or the American friends, doesn't matter because we can't make the difference at that point.

3. Because the combination of two or even only one of the two will make the pope looking like the antichrist/false prophet in the closed minds of minority but vocal fanatics, he resigns thus putting an end of Malachi prophecy. Before doing so however, he makes a major reform for the election of his successor to be not one among the church establishment. He can appoint thousands of lay cardinals devote catholics who have nothing in common with the magic and lies centuries old.


4. If that is not done, I don't see any future for the Roman church (as well as other churches). Once the nukes start flying it will not matter anymore. Or once the aliens start flying. Whether you call it "Nibiru", "solar killshot", "3 days of darkness" or "Fatima 3rd secret" it doesn't really matter. It will be the end of the current way of ife. Perhaps it is sought?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

p.s. this doesn't mean that i think the teachings regarding love and compassion and other "evidences" of the indwelling of the holy spirit, are null and void, only that the sin doctrine is inaccurate as it is taught. it seems conducive to jesus' teachings to state that we are to be loving, caring people because it's infinitely better than the opposite. and that we should accept his offer, as the god who currently owns the place, holds our every mistake against us before the divine council, otherwise.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus said if you forgive others then you are forgiven, Paul says that if you believe in a sacrifice then you are forgiven with no other options, even forgiveness towards others does not matter if you don't believe in the sacrifice he promoted. He effectively cut people off from the true teachings of Jesus and replaced them with his own doctrine, the doctrine that has split into 40,000 different denominations.

What do you mean by what you have said "Paul says that if you believe in a sacrifice then you are forgiven with no other options, even forgiveness towards others does not matter if you don't believe in the sacrifice he promoted?" Can you not only explain that but give the scripture of that teaching by Paul?

I will take this subject first even though the rest of your spiel is as confusing as the first part.

a reply to: Seede

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Galatians 2
16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

No faith but works? You're not saved. Faith but no works? You're saved.

Paul taught faith and no works saves. He even justifies sinning by saying he isn't the one doing the sin anymore.

Romans 7
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So sin as much as you want, you aren't the one doing it anyways, and when you do sin you have a scapegoat in Jesus.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Thats why I didnt mention PAUL. Didntyou say a little while earlier to seperate paul.s just faith itself from works?

Doing simple works such as treating people with love and respect and faith in Jesus teachings and him then you will be fine.

Another thread where the foolish try to persecute and separate the word of God, and some of you even claim to believe. Here's the thing all you lukewarm people need to understand, you cannot cherry-pick the Bible, you cannot take one part, and leave the rest because you don't like it. The Lord will simply say: I never knew ye.

As for contradictions in the bible, there are NONE. If you think there are, you simply haven't been enlightened. If you want to sit there and lie, then by all means. But placecard it by stating that it is your OPINION, and nothing more. Otherwise, you lie about the Lord, and you break His commandments, and try to twist His word. Good luck with that, when the time comes to explain yourself to Him.

You folks that try to take Paul out of context, are no better than those that claim that the Torah has no place in the Bible. A silly and redundant statement, if there ever was one. I can forgive those of you who don't believe, and those who've never READ the Bible, but those who claim to be followers of Christ, you have NO excuse for trying to mislead the flock, you should be ashamed of trying to subvert the works of your Lord. One might even ask, who your 'Lord' truly is?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Paul taught faith and no works saves. He even justifies sinning by saying he isn't the one doing the sin anymore.

Not true at all.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The subject matter is the Jew boasting his justification with God through the Laws of Moses. The Jew has rejected Jesus as the Son of God and therefore has rejected faith in Jesus that He forgives transgression of the law. That is the subject which Paul confronts in this discussion. Paul is absolutely correct in this account. Paul says that the Jew is not justified by God through the law simply because the law has nothing to offer but works. Under the law there was nothing but 613 commands of do or don’t and if one did not abide by that edict then that one faced the punishment of those commands. There was no mercy nor was there forgiveness. There was only a covering of sin and a future of believed existence in Sheol.

Paul teaches that a man is justified by faith that Jesus can forgive trespasses. That is the faith that Paul is talking about. Paul is not saying that the law is not the law anymore. Jesus taught all of the law in His sermons. Jesus did not offer everyone the kingdom of heaven. He offered only those who were justified the kingdom of heaven. There were only two ways to be justified . One was by the work of Law and the other by faith in Jesus Christ. The works of the law offered no heaven while faith in Christ Jesus offered the kingdom which is in heaven.

You stated ---“ No faith but works? You're not saved. Faith but no works? You're saved.
Paul taught faith and no works saves.”

What is so confusing is that you don’t understand the premise of Jesus. You cannot enter heaven without the faith that Jesus will judge you and either condemn or pardon your sins. You cannot enter heaven without that premise and you cannot enter heaven by simply obeying the laws of Moses. In Christian theology no one has entered heaven through the law. At best they could enter Sheol but not the kingdom of heaven. Heaven was only offered through Jesus which is being justified by that faith in the Christ. Not faith in the law as you suppose but by faith in Christ Jesus.

The reason for the Christ to become flesh was that the justified ones in Sheol had no hope of escaping eventual annihilation when the world would end. If they were still in Sheol at the end of the world they would then have been destroyed along with the entire universe. By Jesus appearing in the flesh and descending into the heart of this earth and leading the captives out of Sheol and into the kingdom of heaven, saved them from total annihilation. Instead of Sheol the justified are now ascending into the kingdom of heaven instead of Sheol.

In understanding Judaic law, you could be forgiven that transgression by the congregation by open confession to that congregation but you still had to face the punishment of that transgression even if that punishment was death. Faith in Jesus meant that you could confess that same transgression and it would be erased from the mind of God with no condemnation whatsoever. Same transgression but faith that it was not only forgiven but that you are justified without the condemnation of the law. That is what Paul is saying when he says faith apart from the law.

a reply to: Seede

Do you agree that when you sin it is not you who is sinning?

So your premise is that God set up a law that could not be followed thus condemning everyone to Sheol from no fault of their own? How was it their fault that God set up a law that couldn't be followed and why would God condemn them through a law that he knew they wouldn't be able to uphold? Why would he let those people fester in Sheol for thousands of years before nullifying the law through Jesus' sacrifice?

The system is so convoluted and unnecessary that it only shows that the god of the bible purposely condemned people from the beginning. It doesn't make any sense and there is no reason for God to have set up such a convoluted and fallible system.