Protestants being persecuted in Eastern Ukraine

I just became aware of this through VICE News:



Well there it is. Meet the new boss, same as the older boss. It would seem soviet style persecution of protestants has made a return to eastern Ukraine (and presumably, Crimea). How can those who defend the rebellion in Ukraine claim that they are defending their own people from the "fascist" Ukrainians, when they are persecuting their own people with the other hand?

What will be the claims from the Pro Putin Peanut Gallery? "Western Propaganda"? "Faked footage"? Or maybe the protestants are "funded by the CIA"? Maybe they are "Junta" Christians?

I find this absolutely deplorable. I didn't need more evidence of thuggery by the DPR and their ilk, but it just keeps coming out. How anyone can support such a movement is beyond me. But I guess if you yearn for the "good old days" of the Soviet Union, it's a step in the right direction?

what do they mean by the "orthodox" church? is it catholic vs. protestant?

a reply to: DeadSeraph

The predictable crowd will come along shortly to tell you that you should stop your Christian whining because there is nothing to see here, move along. Or they'll tell you that we somehow earned it. Or they'll tell you that we have an imagined persecution complex.

You know how the game is played.

It will be interesting to see in light of how many people blasted Putin as some kind of religious fundy whack job because of his anti-gay stances.

It just looks like our Eastern European brothers and sisters are going to have to break out their old Soviet era notes on how to hide their gatherings. While they're at it, they ought to send some of them our way. We may be glad of those notes soon enough.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
I just became aware of this through VICE News:

Well there it is. Meet the new boss, same as the older boss. It would seem soviet style persecution of protestants has made a return to eastern Ukraine (and presumably, Crimea). How can those who defend the rebellion in Ukraine claim that they are defending their own people from the "fascist" Ukrainians, when they are persecuting their own people with the other hand?

What will be the claims from the Pro Putin Peanut Gallery? "Western Propaganda"? "Faked footage"? Or maybe the protestants are "funded by the CIA"? Maybe they are "Junta" Christians?

I find this absolutely deplorable. I didn't need more evidence of thuggery by the DPR and their ilk, but it just keeps coming out. How anyone can support such a movement is beyond me. But I guess if you yearn for the "good old days" of the Soviet Union, it's a step in the right direction?

Ya can't fix stupid. Not in one generation at least.

How can anyone support any sort of killing...on either side?

Persecution of Jews, Protestants, Christians, Muslims, atheist's, whatever. They are ALL human. To divide people further beyond that is disgusting to me. Especially in terms of religion, "nationality" or "ethnicity" as they are Purely superficial lines drawn in the sand, based on differences of illusion (culture).

As Uncle Grandpa says, "war doesn't decide who's right or wrong. Just who's left."

Both sides are beyond pathetic... Like in any mindless battle.

a reply to: ketsuko

The predictable crowd will come along shortly to tell you that you should stop your Christian whining because there is nothing to see here, move along. Or they'll tell you that we somehow earned it. Or they'll tell you that we have an imagined persecution complex.

This is rich.


Who, then, is the 'predictable crowd', please?


You feel that you are persecuted as a Protestant 'Christian'? What on Earth have protestant Christians done to alienate others?????

Seriously.....I'm asking you in all earnestness. Please do explain your tragic situation.
Explain how the New Apostolic Reformationists like Sam Brownback have helped this country.....how the Evangelical community has moved us forward. I'd really like to know.

But provide sources beyond your tender, fragile, put-upon sensibilities while you're composing it, please.

originally posted by: undo
what do they mean by the "orthodox" church? is it catholic vs. protestant?

Russian orthodox, which is different from Catholicism. So it's Russian Orthodox vs Protestants. If you watch the video, members of the DPR state that they don't want catholics, baptists, or basically any other kind of denomination in their territory, and they want the Russian Orthodox church to be incorporated into the state.

Currently, Protestant churches are being occupied by DPR and LPR fighters. Those protestants who haven't fled due to persecution, are forced to hold their services in private homes, under secrecy.

a reply to: undo
No, it's not "Catholic v Protestant".
This is the much older division between the Greek speaking church of the east and the Latin speaking church of the west, which became a real estrangement in the eleventh century.
The "Orthodox" church is the church of the Greeks themselves and most of the Slavic nations, especially Russia.
Apparently they regard Protestants and Catholics as equally at fault, partly because of some words which the western church has added to the Nicene Creed.
(The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son )

a reply to: DISRAELI

Wasn't the Eastern Orthodox Church, at least in the old Soviet era, pretty heavily infiltrated and controlled by the state, too? Or at least there were rumors it was used by the KGB even though the Soviets made a show of persecuting it along with the other denoms.

It may be that in this incarnation, the Eastern Orthos are more in bed with the state sort of like China endorses certain official state sects which it heavily controls behind the scenes.

a reply to: ketsuko
That's a plausible possibility as well, an additional motive.
I don't know enough about the current scene there, but isn't Putin supposed to be quite Orthodox?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

beautiful avatar. doesn't match your attitude atm, however. just for the record, none of the people in this thread have ever done anything wrong to you. just a reality check.

a reply to: undo

Fair enough.

I'm just tired of the whining Protestant Christians sitting on their poor-me pots.

(But, incidentally, .....
how do you know they haven't? Who is 'the predictable crowd'? Am I not allowed to rebut by suggesting that whoever prophecied "the 'predictable crowd'" has already trashed everyone who doesn't agree with them before whoever the 'predictable crowd' is even had a chance to respond?


)

Never mind, undo. I know I'm being ignored.

It's all good.
Happy spring equinox. Only 24ish hours away, and here we go again! Fresh, green, vigorous, and sunny.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

beautiful avatar. doesn't match your attitude atm, however. just for the record, none of the people in this thread have ever done anything wrong to you. just a reality check.

I was thinking the same thing! Like, Wow, where did that hostility come from??? I think I missed years of posting hate messages between them or something.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Okay I watched the video and I'll say this....they speak of people being beat up,and I'm not saying that there hasn't been,but they don't show anyone that has been beat up,nor anyone that knows of someone being beat up. Therefore I have to say,in war many innocents get caught in the cross hairs,this is no different. Also,they only show 3 churches that have been taken over,not 20 or 2 dozen like they claim.

They at least let the people leave rather than just bomb them or attack them like Right Sector has been doing. Remember that during WW2 it is estimated that 2/3 of Nazis were protestant and 1/3 were catholic. They may not very well trust them not to be passing on info to Kiev,that would not be unreasonable. If you are in a war,and you afraid that a certain faction of your population would rat you out,you can kill them,lock them up,or deport them.Those are pretty much your options. I think that once things get settled down there and the lines are drawn and respected,that they can have the churches back and be left in peace with no real issue. I agree with this guy that the Orthodox church should stand up and say something,but churches have been notorious for encouraging people to do terrible things to others in the past.

I don't agree that they should persecute anyone of another faith,but in war time,all bets are off. I'm just glad they aren't dragging them out and shooting them. Or in some cases during WW2 the Nazis barricaded the doors of the church and set it on fire with the people in there. Horrible.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Orthodoxy is absolutely sacred in Russia. You can call someone's mother all sorts of evil but you better not mess with the Russian church or you're dead.

Sadly when governments cultivate extreme positions like nationalism and anti gay rights they also get extreme views on many other subjects. The views on Orthodox Christianity are very deep rooted there.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I was thinking the same thing! Like, Wow, where did that hostility come from???

Feel free to peruse my post/thread history.

Funny - I was thinking: Like, Wow, how and when did the Protestant Christians win the decision that they get to be the most put-upon segment of this country's population? Wow, and what about the homeless, the hungry, the jobless, the poverty stricken, the sexually enslaved, the underemployed, the exploited, the Veterans ...what about them?

Nice chatting with you. Have a great weekend.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Who is 'the predictable crowd'?

yeah, same problem. touche'

here comes the sun?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I was thinking the same thing! Like, Wow, where did that hostility come from???

Feel free to peruse my post/thread history.

Funny - I was thinking: Like, Wow, how and when did the Protestant Christians win the decision that they get to be the most put-upon segment of this country's population? Wow, and what about the homeless, the hungry, the jobless, the poverty stricken, the sexually enslaved, the underemployed, the exploited, the Veterans ...what about them?

Nice chatting with you. Have a great weekend.

I don't think anyone said Protestant's are claiming the crown of persecution. It's just one thread about one topic. If I'm wrong feel free to point it out.

a reply to: undo

My pleasure:

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I was thinking the same thing! Like, Wow, where did that hostility come from???

Feel free to peruse my post/thread history.

Funny - I was thinking: Like, Wow, how and when did the Protestant Christians win the decision that they get to be the most put-upon segment of this country's population? Wow, and what about the homeless, the hungry, the jobless, the poverty stricken, the sexually enslaved, the underemployed, the exploited, the Veterans ...what about them?

Nice chatting with you. Have a great weekend.

there are protestants in their number as well. PROTEST-ants started when the printing press was created, the bible was then printed in german and english, and people got to read what was actually in the bible, for the first time. they were shocked and began to protest, all over europe, since the vatican had added all kinds of laws you could get killed/punished/ostracized for that just weren't in the text of the bible, or were no longer applicable. this was what ignited the inquisition. many protestants were burned to death by the vatican as well as pagans, jews and other non catholic groups.

a reply to: undo

PROTEST-ants started when the printing press was created, the bible was then printed in german and english, and people got to read what was actually in the bible, for the first time. they were shocked and began to protest, all over europe, since the vatican had added all kinds of laws you could get killed/punished/ostracized for that just weren't in the text of the bible, or were no longer applicable. this was what ignited the inquisition. many protestants were burned to death by the vatican as well as pagans, jews and other non catholic groups.

Well done!!!!

Well done, indeed.
You are exactly correct. That was an essay question, and you aced it.

The only 'minus' from your "A" is that they (the people) didn't "get to read what was actually in the bible for the first time."
Not only were the contents (whether in German or English) NOT what was 'in the bible for the first time,' but most of the people were still illiterate.

By the time those 'Bibles' were translated into German and English, those 'Bibles' were already corrupted.

Would you like to read the novel I wrote about that era? I have a modern English version, AND a Carolingian version (a bit after Shakespearean, you know. When the Oliver Cromwell crowd started making trouble). Let me know.

I don't want to fight with you all. I just want you to wake up and smell the pollen. The world is renewed anew.