Presbyterian Church (USA) Amends Constitution to Allow Gay Marriage

I'm not Christian, and I'm not going to start quoting Romans or anything (yet), but this feels like blatant apostasy from Pauline Christianity. Whatever your opinion on gay marriages/unions, you've gotta admit this looks like total capitulation under social pressure in an effort to save the church's dwindling attendance rolls (and "tithes").

Actually, it feels a little like the Mormons' 1978 decree extending priesthood ordination to all worthy members regardless of race. Similar social pressures at work. But I digress...

Washington Post

The Presbyterian Church (USA), the largest body of Presbyterians in the country, approved a change in the wording of its constitution to allow gay and lesbian weddings within the church, a move that threatens to continue to split the mainline Protestant denomination.

The 171 regional presbyteries (local leadership bodies within the PCUSA) have been voting on whether to change the wording to call marriage a contract “between a woman and a man” to being “between two people, traditionally a man and a woman.” On Tuesday, the denomination reached its needed majority of “yes” votes from at least 86 presbyteries to take effect. The change will be included in the church’s “Book of Order,” part of its constitution, taking effect on June 21.

So the union of a man and a woman is now a tradition to the Presbyterians? Wow.

The vote comes amid a larger debate over whether gay marriage conflicts with Scripture and would cause more Presbyterian churches to break relations with the PCUSA. The church has lost 37 percent of its membership since 1992.

Yeeeah. Not very difficult to identify the church's motivation here.

But nonetheless, at least this is where the debate should be taking place--not in the halls of Congress or your local statehouse.

Just a little breaking news (I can't stand posting in that forum) for a nightcap. I'm most interested to hear what Presbyterians have to say about this, then Christians at large. The potential for rabid Atheists to jump on this as an excuse to bash the religion as a whole is extremely high, and as such I ask that they be on-topic and civil, else go make their own thread to spew their retardation.

While I am no longer a member of the Christian religion...I grew up Presbyterian. They are actually fairly open-minded people and I don't remember them as being judgemental in the least. Overall these are very pleasant folks and it doesn't surprise me one bit that they would make this change.

I think its all about avoiding lawsuits LOL.

I wont be going to any "gay"churches. No thanks. Neither will my kids for that matter.

originally posted by: agenda51
I think its all about avoiding lawsuits LOL.

I wont be going to any "gay"churches. No thanks. Neither will my kids for that matter.

Hey look, someone who is openly a part of the problem.

a reply to: SpongeBeard

we all have our beliefs and the environment we wish to bring up our kids.

a reply to: NthOther

The Episcopalians did something similar to this in the past, and it wasn't due to "political pressure," it was because they honestly thought it was the right thing to do. The Episcopalians also allow women priests, bishops and archbishops.

I think that if you really understand the word of God, you would understand that marriage is a union between two people who love each other. It is the same thing as evolution. God obviously understands evolution because he created our universe, and evolution is a part of our universe. It is denying God to deny part of His creation.

Believe it or not, not all Christians take Genesis literally and, in fact, the majority of them did not until recently. The same thing goes with gay marriage. There are Christians who think that allowing gay marriage is the right thing to do. Not all Christians are extremist.

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: SpongeBeard

we all have our beliefs and the environment we wish to bring up our kids.

It sounds like your kids are being brought up in a negative environment. I've known adults whose parents were homophobic and it caused a rift in their relationship with their parents once they were old enough to make their own decisions.

The line must be drawn. The word marriage is taken by the only union between two living things that can create new life, a man and a woman. If the line is not drawn and gays can marry, why can't there be group marriages, why can't there be human and object marriages(dolls), why can't there be human/plant marriages?

Homosexuality is a defect. No different than a child born of downs syndrome. We must love them, but understand the lens through which they witness the world. We live in a society where our foods are tainted with hormones and GMO's, people are being born with more prevalent defects now per capita than ever before, take autism for example.

Any union besides a man and a woman is a phony marriage and nothing but a friendship or idolization.

The argument of being gay down to the very chemicals being produced in the brain is not relevant, as the developmental defect is what causes this.

a reply to: darkbake

LOL...sure you do. I am not scared of gays I just choose to not be around them. I like to stick with my own demographic. And um... no....I dont believe my kids growing up around a bunch of gay people is going to somehow make them happier and more positive. They are happy and they love mom and dad just fine.

Oh and I have known adults whose parents were homophobic and there is no rift in the family so ...right back at ya!

i wonder what your view is on christianity abandoning the practice of slavery due to social pressure ?

i wonder what your view is on christianity abandoning the practice of slavery due to social pressure ?

originally posted by: chadderson
The line must be drawn. The word marriage is taken by the only union between two living things that can create new life, a man and a woman. If the line is not drawn and gays can marry, why can't there be group marriages, why can't there be human and object marriages(dolls), why can't there be human/plant marriages?

Homosexuality is a defect. No different than a child born of downs syndrome. We must love them, but understand the lens through which they witness the world. We live in a society where our foods are tainted with hormones and GMO's, people are being born with more prevalent defects now per capita than ever before, take autism for example.

Any union besides a man and a woman is a phony marriage and nothing but a friendship or idolization.

The argument of being gay down to the very chemicals being produced in the brain is not relevant, as the developmental defect is what causes this.

You have hit the nail on the head. I am not a gay basher not do I hate gays but there must be a line drawn. Why? Did you know that now it is legal for incest sex? That's right Dad and daughters, Moms with their sons all having sex and it is legal!! But wait don't barf yet..... it gets worse. Now in Germany it is legal to have sex with animals..... as long as the animal does not weigh more than 10 kilograms!

So now gays can marry, gay partners can now have children and raise them in a gay environment meanwhile teaching the children their prejudices and hates against straight people (not all....I hope), mommy can have sex with her son and you can even screw your dog! Why you ask? Because there was no line drawn in the sand!

Soon to come......marriage between a human and an animal? It would not shock me.

Star for you sir!

a reply to: NthOther

I'm not going to start quoting Romans or anything (yet), but this feels like blatant apostasy from Pauline Christianity.

Paul was a strong advocate of not having sex outside of wedlock. Also of celibacy in general.

A religious marriage could only be a union between men and women.

One such instance of sex outside of wedlock was through a practice called pederasty. Which is the sexual slavery of a teen/young man under a male master. They can't be married and therefore sex between them would be sex outside of wedlock and most likely adultery as well. That's the sin in Paul's eyes.

The Romans verses you might quote you'd be doing in error if they mention 'homosexuality' explicitly. That's a modern translation(s). From the 1970s. We can compare said verses to the Latin Vulgate and you will see what I'm referring to.

Obviously this doesn't negate the understanding that religious marriage is between a man and a woman, and that is something Paul would agree to. So nothing I said argues your OP. I just wanted to take this opportunity should your intentions with Romans have broached the subject of homosexuality itself...

The potential for rabid Atheists to jump on this as an excuse to bash the religion as a whole is extremely high, and as such I ask that they be on-topic and civil, else go make their own thread to spew their retardation.

lol!

Calling out the potential of atheists bashing the religious and then you follow it with essentially calling atheists retards.

You just jumped on the excuse to do so! Very civil. Too funny, man.

It would be more accepted as the title of Mutual Union as apposed to Marriage. I am a Presbyterian and a Libertarian.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
i wonder what your view is on christianity abandoning the practice of slavery due to social pressure ?

I love a good one-line zinger in the mornings!

This is great news. I imagine, in time, other churches will follow suit. This is about love and acceptance. But it's their choice. The government cannot force them, not would any lawsuit against them be successful. That's why it's imperative to keep the separation between church and state.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Did you know that now it is legal for incest sex?

Where? Can you site the law? I mean, can you back up this statement?

So now gays can marry, gay partners can now have children and raise them in a gay environment meanwhile teaching the children their prejudices and hates against straight people

After reading your post, I don't think it's the gay people who are prejudiced and full of hatred... Hang onto that. It will get you right into heaven...

What's a "gay environment"?

a reply to: NthOther

You need to edit your title...

amends (lower case) their constitution (lower case)

Thanks...

---

Alternatively you can just add Their with a capital T.

*Presbyterian Church (USA) Amends Their Constitution to Allow Gay Marriage

originally posted by: AinElohim

You need to edit your title...

amends (lower case) their constitution (lower case)

Thanks...

---

Alternatively you can just add Their with a capital T.

*Presbyterian Church (USA) Amends Their Constitution to Allow Gay Marriage

If you clicked on this thread thinking it was about a government's constitution... well, I said I'd try to keep it civil.

Suffice it to simply ask: Did you really think that's what you were clicking into?

a reply to: chadderson

I needed a laugh this morning - thanks for that post.

Homosexuality has been around in the animal kingdom AND in the human population at about the same percentages since recorded history. So no, it's not hormones and GMOs that are causing it.

I'd like proof that there has never been a phony marriage between a man and a woman. Of course there have been. Why no outrage there? Oh yeah - it's really none of our business is it? I've known gay couples who have been together 20 years or more (so far). There's not one thing phony about their relationships.

We will definitely see more churches accepting gay marriage. Those who are fighting it are becoming more and more in the minority - and they WILL get left behind by the rest of us who are evolving.

a reply to: kaylaluv

kayaluv, if you read more critically of my post you would see that I explained homosexuality is a developmental defect. Developmental defects are caused by a multitude of things, one of them being GMO/pesticide/hormones that we are ingesting nationwide.

Half of everything in creation can be quantified right and wrong. Homosexual marriage is wrong, Heterosexual marriage is right. True heterosexual marriages are halfway disposed to failure, therefore half are truly successful unions and half are not. The thing is, it is a TRUE union from the get go. Homosexual unions can work, but they are not a true union to begin with, it is just a friendship. Half of all homosexual unions are bound to fail just as half are bound to "succeed".

All paths are taking us to the same place, therefore love everyone. Truth is truth, there is no hate.