Blurring the Lines Between the "Good Guys" and "The Evildoers"

Unlike WWI and WWII, WWIII will almost certainly feature a conflict where the division of good vs evil will depend solely on propaganda and perception rather than anything remotely tangible. Issues like this: www.nbcnews.com... make that a near certainty.

Celebrations took place in Crimea on Monday to celebrate the one-year anniversary of a disputed referendum to join Russia after Moscow's military entered the Ukrainian peninsula. But the festivities in the peninsula's capital of Simferopol did little to hide the isolation that has resulted from the controversial annexation and international sanctions which followed.

McDonald's was not the only international company to withdraw from Crimea: many others followed, including PayPal, Amazon, and even Russian banks.

Once a thriving resort zone, Crimea now stands separated from the rest of the world: international cell phones do not work, and neither do credit cards.

Visa and MasterCard have both ceased operations in Crimea, essentially crippling the region's financial system: Paying by card is no longer possible, and businesses cannot wire or receive payments.

The sole land link to the Ukrainian mainland was closed off by Kiev, food prices have skyrocketed, tourist flows are down and 3G cellphone service is off. The peninsula is even lacking in fresh water and electricity, more than 80 percent of which came from Ukraine.

the peninsula is struggling after the United States, along with the EU and Ukraine, imposed sanctions against Crimea and businesses that work there.

Interesting that when a state-declared enemy of the US, EU, or their allies besieges an area it is a "HUMANITARIAN CRISIS" and the nation responsible is "VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAW", but when the US, EU, or their allies does exactly the same thing it is called "Sanctions" and presented as being an example of trying to get the target nation to change their course towards the light side.

This is exactly why the idea that the west represents some sort of good anymore is so easily rejectable. The US over the past couple of decades has become a Dr, Jeckle and Mr. Hyde bipolar paragon of confusing and conflicting messages. Syria, for instance, is in a heated battle against known terrorist organizations... organizations which framed Assad for the use of chemical weapons against civilians in Ghouta... 1,700 casualties, and the US did everything they could think of to use those deaths as an excuse to SIDE WITH TERRORISTS and force an armed regime change on Syria. Based on that level of reaction, you'd think the USA would have leapt into action over a million genocide deaths in Rwanda and the 5 million deaths in the Congo civil wars! *crickets chirping* Huh? What? Wait, wait, wait... they did nothing? Really? Not a damn thing? Um, well, this is awkward. Bashir Assad is accused of causing the deaths of 1,700 and America is ready to rush in all guns blazing without any evidence other than an accusation, buuuuut 3,500 times that many civilians are laying dead in central Africa and the same officials sit around with their thumbs up their ass? o_O

So back to Crimea. We have the majority of the Crimean population wanting to remain under Russia's care, we have a Russian nation trying desperately to get aid, food, and infrastructure to these suffering people, and we have an American government supporting a derelict Ukrainian government in blocking that aid and threatening military action against the country trying to get the aid to the people who need it (along with a US government spearheading other international sanctions which are causing the pain of those people...)

Who says bad guys always wear black?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Wow. I love this presentation. I hope it makes people think and reflect about blindly taking sides. It kind of illustrates that the old adages and definitions have outlived their appointed time. Some of us wish for a new order wherein national boundaries are dissolved and the 'We VS Them' mentality stops focusing on the differences, and allows the 'mankind is all family' to take hold.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

The US has made a lot of enemies and frenemies with its arrogant, belligerent foreign policy. It really wouldn't take much to assemble a coalition to neutralize the bully.

The US will be reprising the role of the Nazis in WW(x). Get out if you can. The US is full of people that would turn on each other in a heartbeat. There is already a complete breakdown of rule of law and the Constitution.

Desperation of the dying empire could render things in a very different way from even the dysfunction you've seen so far.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I have to admit, other than talking with a married couple here who are Ukrainian and Russian pretty extensively, I don't feel as though I have a grasp on it.

I can say that Crimea has been annexed to the apparent approval of most of the inhabitants as well as Russia (without making any comment on the influx of Russian nationals that may or may not have preceded that).

I can't imagine that Russia cannot provide Crimea with anything and everything they need, did they not just annex the place for the sake of Pete?

How is this the fault of the US or EU?

Attempting to apply finite 'lines' to subjectives will always result in blurriness.

Where is the surprise?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

A very enlightening post.

Lol, with modern thinking like yours the world is becoming too small to continue in this black-balling of nations according to perceived notions of good and evil, which are themselves relative to the band-wagon congregating around certain allegiances (no longer even nationally defined) of political and economic motives. I would argue that it is more about military strategic concerns and economics than even politics.

I don't see Mr Putin as a good or bad man. I feel exactly the same way about Mr Obama and Mr Cameron. They are all brokers of power and they do what they see as necessary to maintain that power and extend it. Some powers will stoop to lower depths of inhumanity than others, yet sometimes it is not clear just who has stooped the lowest. In this age there is little moral ground to separate. The U.S and UK have behaved in very similar ways to Russia historically.

Gang wars of planet earth: I think that it is not too far away when we will advance beyond this into a world government. Before that time there must happen a huge revolution of thinking (world renaissance) that brings us all together. There is an end in sight to the horrors of war and conflict that is still killing millions of civilians on a yearly basis.

Please hurry up and evolve, Dear Planet Blue!

originally posted by: greencmp
How is this the fault of the US or EU?

Did you read the article I linked? The Ukraine controls the land routes to Crimea and has them barricaded (both highways and rail lines), allowing NOTHING to get in. Crimea's ports (air and sea) are critically overtasked. Their methods of communication have been severed by the Ukraine at the behest of the US and EU. All international corporations have refused to do business within Crimea, again at the behest of the EU and US and the sanctions those countries have assaulted Crimea with. Crimea's electric, gas, and water primarily comes from the Ukraine side of their border, all have been shut down by the Ukraine and their EU/US sanctioning supporters.

If the US and EU lifted the sanctions on Crimea, most of these barricades would be quickly removed and the people of Crimea could resume their normal lives...

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: burdman30ott6

The US has made a lot of enemies and frenemies with its arrogant, belligerent foreign policy. It really wouldn't take much to assemble a coalition to neutralize the bully.

The US will be reprising the role of the Nazis in WW(x). Get out if you can. The US is full of people that would turn on each other in a heartbeat. There is already a complete breakdown of rule of law and the Constitution.

Desperation of the dying empire could render things in a very different way from even the dysfunction you've seen so far.

You do realize that if the world dared tried to come together against the US we would basically say screw them all and nuke everybody right? BEcause Our leaders look at it liek this. If they cant have it no one will.

ALso Americans may look like they will kill each other for anything but theres one thing most of them can agree on and its kicking people who attack us teeth in.

ALso how has the rule of law broken down?International laws do not apply or need to be followed according to our constitution unless they are approved by congress and the senate.

The russian empire,english empire and chinese empire are on the ebb though too.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: greencmp
How is this the fault of the US or EU?

Did you read the article I linked? The Ukraine controls the land routes to Crimea and has them barricaded (both highways and rail lines), allowing NOTHING to get in. Crimea's ports (air and sea) are critically overtasked. Their methods of communication have been severed by the Ukraine at the behest of the US and EU. All international corporations have refused to do business within Crimea, again at the behest of the EU and US and the sanctions those countries have assaulted Crimea with. Crimea's electric, gas, and water primarily comes from the Ukraine side of their border, all have been shut down by the Ukraine and their EU/US sanctioning supporters.

If the US and EU lifted the sanctions on Crimea, most of these barricades would be quickly removed and the people of Crimea could resume their normal lives...

I guess I have to admit that I'm just not feeling all that much sympathy for the fact that the Ukraine is miffed at Crimea, what did they expect? If the US is in control in the region, I would be surprised and probably recommend that we butt out of what is literally an internal matter for the two now separate entities.

Still, no one is surprised by any of this, there was no way Russia was going to lose their naval base.

Given that they have a naval base and some ingenious engineers, I am sure they will figure out a way to satisfy their needs.

I still don't see how we are responsible for this.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Very well written. I very much enjoyed reading this.

You just described the famous "double standards" policy conducted by the west and it's citizens. We all know it's real, but nobody from the west is acknowledging this, so there's no real point in trying to show it to the western citizens.

Expect the famous crew joining this thread saying how's all of this just a Russian propaganda, how majority of people living in Crimea do not want to join Russia, how Russia is expanding their territory to get close to NATO bases and not the other way around, how Russia caused the civil war in Ukraine, etc...The most ridiculous thing that has being posted on ATS as a fact, was that story of Russian aid trucks actually carrying military tech and what not!

P.S I have to admit that i did not expect this kind of thread by a ATS staff member! Pleasantly surprised!

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Ukraine has put explosives under the three bridges to Crimea recently.

Russia just did an extra emergency convoy to Eastern Ukraine, the 19th. Crimea gets their stuff too, but Eastern Ukraine now has priority.

The bridge from Russia to Crimea is planned to be ready within 3 years, so Crimeans have to do with what they got for now. Ukraine was also cutting gas to Eastern Ukraine and electricity to Crimea, while Russia gives them coal to get electricity and gas.

The Crimeans at least were spared from violence and just have to wait a few years before being connected to Russia. But leave it to the Western media not to talk about there have been no war deaths and all buildings are still standing unlike Eastern Ukraine.

But well told burdman !

a reply to: Nikola014

Implying the STaff is paid for? ANd Alot of us have said the US has done some dirtyness too but we have yet to annex a country due to american people living there.

a reply to: greencmp

From the link in the OP,

But in financial terms, the Stars and Stripes comes out on top — the peninsula is struggling after the United States, along with the EU and Ukraine, imposed sanctions against Crimea and businesses that work there.

Now, how hard is that to understand?

Take the blinkers off there...

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

The US will be reprising the role of the Nazis in WW(x).

Interesting, but the last time I checked we have no problems with the Jewish, unlike the Nazi's.

The US is full of people that would turn on each other in a heartbeat.

I take it you aren't from the US, but if you are maybe you need to relocate if you think everyone around you are going to turn on you or others in a heartbeat.

did they not just annex the place for the sake of Pete?

It was their way to get out of the lease they had for their Black Sea base. No need to pay for it if you own it.

I can say that Crimea has been annexed to the apparent approval of most of the inhabitants as well as Russia (without making any comment on the influx of Russian nationals that may or may not have preceded that).

Let's look at that shall we...

Putin has admitted to planning the annexation of Crimea well before it happened, so then he has to make sure that everyone is in place for this to happen which means he has to send people there to get the ball going and the civilians riled up, because they weren't so riled up until certain people came to town.

So don't think Russia didn't have their people in place so that the vote was guaranteed to be in favor, but I have to wonder why they didn't offer the chance to stay with Ukraine on the Crimean ballot...so no matter which way you vote your going to be part of Russia.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ukraine has put explosives under the three bridges to Crimea recently.

Care to provide a source for this?

The Crimeans at least were spared from violence

What violence...the only violence that started was because the Little Green men appeared in Crimea and started taking over government office buildings.

Was Ukraine doing anything like that before Russian troops came to town, so where was the violence they were saved from?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The violence which the Eastern Ukrainians have been subjected too.

Russia has had a HARD ON for that base for DECADES they went for it because we have a weak leader,they also went for the Ukraine and that was a jump too far.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Unlike WWI and WWII, WWIII will almost certainly feature a conflict where the division of good vs evil will depend solely on propaganda and perception rather than anything remotely tangible. Issues like this: www.nbcnews.com... make that a near certainty.

Celebrations took place in Crimea on Monday to celebrate the one-year anniversary of a disputed referendum to join Russia after Moscow's military entered the Ukrainian peninsula. But the festivities in the peninsula's capital of Simferopol did little to hide the isolation that has resulted from the controversial annexation and international sanctions which followed.

McDonald's was not the only international company to withdraw from Crimea: many others followed, including PayPal, Amazon, and even Russian banks.

Once a thriving resort zone, Crimea now stands separated from the rest of the world: international cell phones do not work, and neither do credit cards.

Visa and MasterCard have both ceased operations in Crimea, essentially crippling the region's financial system: Paying by card is no longer possible, and businesses cannot wire or receive payments.

The sole land link to the Ukrainian mainland was closed off by Kiev, food prices have skyrocketed, tourist flows are down and 3G cellphone service is off. The peninsula is even lacking in fresh water and electricity, more than 80 percent of which came from Ukraine.

the peninsula is struggling after the United States, along with the EU and Ukraine, imposed sanctions against Crimea and businesses that work there.

Interesting that when a state-declared enemy of the US, EU, or their allies besieges an area it is a "HUMANITARIAN CRISIS" and the nation responsible is "VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAW", but when the US, EU, or their allies does exactly the same thing it is called "Sanctions" and presented as being an example of trying to get the target nation to change their course towards the light side.

This is exactly why the idea that the west represents some sort of good anymore is so easily rejectable. The US over the past couple of decades has become a Dr, Jeckle and Mr. Hyde bipolar paragon of confusing and conflicting messages. Syria, for instance, is in a heated battle against known terrorist organizations... organizations which framed Assad for the use of chemical weapons against civilians in Ghouta... 1,700 casualties, and the US did everything they could think of to use those deaths as an excuse to SIDE WITH TERRORISTS and force an armed regime change on Syria. Based on that level of reaction, you'd think the USA would have leapt into action over a million genocide deaths in Rwanda and the 5 million deaths in the Congo civil wars! *crickets chirping* Huh? What? Wait, wait, wait... they did nothing? Really? Not a damn thing? Um, well, this is awkward.

Bashir Assad is accused of causing the deaths of 1,700 and America is ready to rush in all guns blazing without any evidence other than an accusation, buuuuut 3,500 times that many civilians are laying dead in central Africa and the same officials sit around with their thumbs up their ass? o_O

So back to Crimea. We have the majority of the Crimean population wanting to remain under Russia's care, we have a Russian nation trying desperately to get aid, food, and infrastructure to these suffering people, and we have an American government supporting a derelict Ukrainian government in blocking that aid and threatening military action against the country trying to get the aid to the people who need it (along with a US government spearheading other international sanctions which are causing the pain of those people...)

Who says bad guys always wear black?

I would not even say wwI was exactly good guys verse bad guys.

Just a dying breed of European artistocrates wanting a old fashioned European gang bang and getting more than they bargained for.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

The US will be reprising the role of the Nazis in WW(x).

Interesting, but the last time I checked we have no problems with the Jewish, unlike the Nazi's.

The US is full of people that would turn on each other in a heartbeat.

I take it you aren't from the US, but if you are maybe you need to relocate if you think everyone around you are going to turn on you or others in a heartbeat.

did they not just annex the place for the sake of Pete?

It was their way to get out of the lease they had for their Black Sea base. No need to pay for it if you own it.

I can say that Crimea has been annexed to the apparent approval of most of the inhabitants as well as Russia (without making any comment on the influx of Russian nationals that may or may not have preceded that).

Let's look at that shall we...

Putin has admitted to planning the annexation of Crimea well before it happened, so then he has to make sure that everyone is in place for this to happen which means he has to send people there to get the ball going and the civilians riled up, because they weren't so riled up until certain people came to town.

So don't think Russia didn't have their people in place so that the vote was guaranteed to be in favor, but I have to wonder why they didn't offer the chance to stay with Ukraine on the Crimean ballot...so no matter which way you vote your going to be part of Russia.

Genoside can involve more than just Jews.

USA may not turn on Jews, infact I doubt it.
But there is certainly at lot of hate toward other groups.

Bravo Zulu, Burdman.