SlenderMan Murderer Teens to be tried as ADULTS and face up to 65 years in prison!

a reply to: Kandinsky

You read my posts as filled with extreme emotion and disgust? Hmm. I don't see that. The subjectively is arguably just as applicable to your thoughts as to mine. Even your sentiment of their mental capacity and mine are equally subject.

*Edit: I might have misunderstood. I took your post to mean that was your assessment of all the posters in favor of them being charged as they are.

Prosecuting them through the juvenile system won't make them any more, or less, guilty so why bring disgust into the proceedings?

Should they be found guilty and prosecuted through the juvenile system, what would their punishment be? Not rhetorical I honestly don't know.

Ok i will wade back in . Push a kid towards a fire and they will push back , same goes if it was a cliff . At 12 they have a very good grasp on death , they know it is permanent . They set out to kill this poor girl knowing full well that what they were doing was forever also there seems to be very little remorse from what i have seen , why would you give them a few years of juvenile detention . What sort of message is that sending . Not a very good one in my opinion but hey i am just a person who has never harboured a desire to kill someone .

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I wasn't aiming at any posters (unless they feel the hat fits). The points were aimed at a judge whose horror at these kids justified trying them as adults. The juvenile system isn't there for people to pick and choose; it's there because 'juvenile' is a definition that applies to young kids and adolescents.

They can still get life without parole. Last time this came around, I was surprised to see the US had about 2000 kids serving life without parole. Always breaking penal records huh? : )

In many posts, I see only retribution and punishment.

How about, we find out what went wrong in these girl's lives that took them along this sick path and then work towards their recovery.

They are mentally, very sick little puppies. They need our help and understanding.

If they can be made well, then eventually release them. If not, they stay in captivity to protect the rest of society.

The point no one likes admitting, is that they are this way because of the society they were raised in. Hey, take a good hard look at that society and tell me it is all roses and little bunnies.

When all is said and done, they are still children. If they are not, then make all decisions on all 12 and 13 year olds as adults. Of course, that will never work. Society hates looking at itself and these types of situations do cause a little peek at what we have become.

\How about a psych examination first.

But no ... retribution is everything.

P

This is a tough call, as every heinous crime such as this committed by kids is.

Should they walk free on their 18th birthdays ?

Or should their incarceration extend beyond that ?

Is 6 and 5 years (the girls are 12 and 13) long enough to incarcerate, rehabilitate, and determine whether they are psychologically fit to step back into society with their juvenile record being wiped clean once they turn 18 (according to juvenile law) ?

Would a 6 and 5 year incarceration be a suitable punishment for the type of crime committed ?

a reply to: pheonix358

I was in High School at this age. Pre-meditated murder is not a mistake. There quotes don't show a lost girl, they show a girl with no remorse.

When I was twelve I played with Legos and did backyard sports with my friends. It never would have occurred to me to try and hurt someone. These two are sick in the head. If it was my daughter that was stabbed I think I would want them put away for life.

originally posted by: pheonix358
If they can be made well, then eventually release them. If not, they stay in captivity to protect the rest of society.

You do realize you are arguing for charging them as adults, right? Otherwise they are released either way, and society is not protected.

a reply to: pheonix358

How about a psych examination first.

A psyche exam has to be conducted before these kids can be tried as adults, that's a part of the process to determine whether they should or shouldn't be tried as adults.

I don't know maybe I'm wrong... I'm assuming the US juvenile judicial system works the same way as it does in Canada ?

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy


They can still get life without parole. Last time this came around, I was surprised to see the US had about 2000 kids serving life without parole. Always breaking penal records huh? : )

Not if they are tried as a Juvenile. Juveniles get life without parole by being sentenced as an Adult.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Yes they would get a Psyche exam.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You do realize you are arguing for charging them as adults, right? Otherwise they are released either way, and society is not protected.

This is where the law is typically a stupid, stupid ass.

They are not Adults. That is it. You can't try them as adults because they are not adults.

Now if your pathetic juvenile, so called, justice system can't handle these cases THEN CHANGE THE BLOODY PATHETIC SYSTEM.

Don't charge them as adults.

What should happen is they should be locked up, under psych care until we work out what is wrong with them and to see if they can be brought back from the place called hell that they are now in.

Again, they are not adults.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You do realize you are arguing for charging them as adults, right? Otherwise they are released either way, and society is not protected.

This is where the law is typically a stupid, stupid ass.

They are not Adults. That is it. You can't try them as adults because they are not adults.

Actually you can, the law says you can.

Now if your pathetic juvenile, so called, justice system can't handle these cases THEN CHANGE THE BLOODY PATHETIC SYSTEM.

They can handle them. You simply disagree with how.

Don't charge them as adults.

What should happen is they should be locked up, under psych care until we work out what is wrong with them and to see if they can be brought back from the place called hell that they are now in.

Again, they are not adults.

P

Psych care? What makes you think they have a mental illness, I see nothing about that in the story. Maybe I missed it, can you show me where they have a mental illness?

a reply to: Kandinsky

I wasn't aiming at any posters (unless they feel the hat fits).

The hat doesn't fit. I do have an abnormally small head though.

The juvenile system isn't there for people to pick and choose; it's there because 'juvenile' is a definition that applies to young kids and adolescents.

And yet is of course historical that our justice system prosecutes minors as adults from time to time. So as far as picking and choosing goes, that ship as sailed. Or...that hammer has dropped.

They can still get life without parole.

What do you see as a fitting punishment? Lock them up until they are 18?

"These girls are juveniles with a capacity to change and with brains that haven't fully-formed. "

...and see if they changed after their brains 'fully-formed'?

Genuine question and not attempting to lead you into an argument on that aspect. I don't know what the punishment/treatment should be ultimately. Considering the nature of the crime I am confident they are, at least right now, not people that should be permitted to freely walk among innocent civilians. I don't know how many years behind prison bars I would delegate to them if I had say. I would hope we'd have the ability to assess their psychological progress as the years go by and reduce their term accordingly.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not if they are tried as a Juvenile. Juveniles get life without parole by being sentenced as an Adult.

That's the impression I was under... Wasn't sure.

These girls preplanned the murder of their supposed friend. They led their friend on for the purpose of murdering her. I think if you kill someone, you should expect the same. The girl with the knife was told by her friend "Go ballistic, go crazy" and then commenced stabbing. That doesn't sound like the words of a child. While age and mental state should be taken into account, my worry is that they might think they could do it again. Is another persons life worth risking, just to save these two girls from a life of misery in prison? I don't think so. I don't know what should happen to these two girls, but I know whatever the sentence is, it can't be light.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not if they are tried as a Juvenile. Juveniles get life without parole by being sentenced as an Adult.

That's the impression I was under... Wasn't sure.

If tried as a Juvenile they MUST be released on their 21st birthday.

Although a small correction I did not bother to address ... a Juvenile tried as an adult can NOT get life without parole. They can get life, and parole may be forever denied, but it's Unconstitutional to deny the opportunity for parole to a Juveline tried as an adult.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I am confident they are, at least right now, not people that should be permitted to freely walk among innocent civilians. I don't know how many years behind prison bars I would delegate to them if I had say. I would hope we'd have the ability to assess their psychological progress as the years go by and reduce their term accordingly.

Absolutely correct.

In my country, and England, we have that option. It is used in all such cases. It is called "Being held at Her Majesties pleasure." They do not get let out until we are sure they are safe to let out. Every year, a report goes to the Judge who decides to keep then in or commence rehab into society.

The US System is trying to put a square peg in a round hole. So change it for these particular heinous crimes.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
Absolutely correct.

Life without parole is Unconstitutional for a juvenile. That is exactly how it works in the US. They have parole hearings and if found to no longer be a threat can be released.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Can you give me a good link for that? Not being lazy, just finding it hard to locate an authoritative site that's spells it out - google-fu must be weak atm.

Gotta say it's surprising to find that sentencing kids to life sentences without parole occurs in the States. Might not be the case with the two girls. Still, describing offenders as 'juveniles' and sentencing them as 'adults' seems fraught with subjective judgements and lacking in scientific basis.

The intent is deemed 'adult' even though medical science demonstrates that kids have maturing, 'juvenile' brains. It's why they aren't allowed to vote, consent to sex, join the military, drive cars and so on.