Born Again - what is it?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
I think you are seeing only the good parts.

Perhaps.

I’m just basing that off, the majority of your posts that I’ve read so far…

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
Your presence makes me smile.

How do you mean…? Can you explain…?

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
There are people that are causing much trouble in the world that I wish sometimes would be sent to hell fire for eternity (corrupt politicians/ISIS/banking mafia). That is not objective and not ok but still I lose my temper. Control is hard.

Well, you have a right to be angry at those things, some might even call it righteous anger etc…but wanting someone sent into hell fire, for all eternity is pretty bad though, I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy…

Control comes through understanding…many people are in darkness through no fault of their own; being aware of this, brings with it compassion, and helps you see the right path…



- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Originally posted by LittleByLittle
Your presence makes me smile.

How do you mean…? Can you explain…?

Not sure I can. I just get a good feeling when I read some peoples post and get a childish smile. It is something in the unconscious.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Joecroft

JoeCraft God's kingdom is more than just knowledge. It is real. And it exists beyond the realms of the physical.

Have you been there? If so, please describe your experience and the circumstances surrounding it.

👣

Seconding this OP.

You can't simply call someone who shared his experience a troll and then say nothing about yours

My view, and the world's 1.2 Billion Catholic's view, would be more clear, if you understood what a Sacrament is.

Baptism is a Sacrament.


a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

a reply to: Ignatian

I understand your view just fine. I also understand that your just repeating what you've probably heard your whole life. The conversation was about being born again. No where does the bible teach water baptism is necessary for salvation.

No where does the bible teach anything about the catholic sacraments bringing someone to grace. Your view is a works based view of salvation.

It looks to me like some of you guys can't see the forest for the trees.

“In imitating the exemplary acts of a god or of a mythic hero, or simply by recounting their adventures, the man of an archaic society detaches himself from profane time and magically re-enters the Great Time, the sacred time.”

-Mircea Eliade

The same goes for the man of modern society. What matters to God is what goes on in your heart during the sacred time of a ritual, not what you call it or what elements are involved or which denomination approves of the details, or even which culture/sub-culture. God doesn't care about that kind of thing. Only people who are attached to their culture and profane time do. They project their concerns onto God, because they are more concerned with culture-building and maintenance than with the heart. That's profane ambition, guys.

Sometimes Christians get too attached to the minutiae of their concepts. Doing that is idolatry, guys. If you think your concept of God; of being born again corresponds to the reality in a 1:1 ratio, you've built an idol out of your concepts instead of out of gold. Lots of Christians are idolatrous but don't realize it.

On the other hand, if you know your concept of God can't do God justice, you can begin to let go of concepts and start reaching God through love instead of culture-bound dogma - dogma that revolves around mere social mechanisms, not God.

No one can think of God. Transcend concepts; culture.

👣

originally posted by: Joecroft

But don’t you also KNOW this…? Which makes it partly about knowledge…if you think about it…

Unless you just believe by faith, in which case, you couldn’t possible by “born again”, because Jesus really (more accurately translated IMO) stated you will know/understand/perceive the Kingdom, which is a knowing, through divine experience…
- JC

Thanks Joe,

This is getting closer to the crux of the matter.The keys to the kingdom of “your heavens” is revelation(knowing) from the father.The heavens is your mind but it is not a kingdom because it is not ruled by authority(the creator God).However having the keys does not mean you will enter into the “kingdom” of your heavens”.They are what “opens the door” (metaphor).When Yahoshua asked the disciples who do the people say I am.They said a prophet…etc etc…Then he asked who the disciples said he was and Simon answered.”you are the christ the son of the living God”.

Yahoshua didn’t say …”blessed are you Simon son of Jonah for the scriptures and/or your faith and belief in me has revealed this to you”.He said the father the creator God revealed it to him.Simon was a lunkhead,he did not know the scriptures.He was a run into a rock and see if it moves guy yet without any explanation he said I just “know it”.He didn’t even say he believed it or the scriptures say it.He said it like a statement of fact and Yahoshua confirmed it and told him the source and what that source was and does.

Revelation from the father the creator God is the foundation stone of the church (ekklesia) the nations of ALL humankind not just Jews or even Christians.. ALL people entering IN the kingdom of their heavens.It is the keys “to” the kingdom.You can’t enter into it with out it.Whatever is bound will be bound or loosed will be loosed in your heavens(mind) and in earth.

The Catholic church twisted that all around and created a “heaven” somewhere out there…and made Peter Yahoshua’s successor as ruler of the “church” on earth!!! The biggest lunkhead of a group of lunkheads!l!Two verse later Yahoshua is calling Simon-Peter satan because of his “thoughts” that are at enmity to the creator God.Peter is proof one second you can hold the key the next drop them down a sewer.None are “better” than others.None will enter the kingdom of their heavens by their “efforts or faith or anything they do .....they will enter in... in spite of them!

Entering into the kingdom of your heavens is the key to “hearing”…. to knowing the creator God.Yahoshua never said he believed (he only knew) in the father he only told others they would believe because he knew how it worked….man's nature is to believe in faith their Belief System religion through their religious carnal mind(heavens).It is inevitable and unavoidable.

However belief through faith is not the keys to the kingdom of your heavens.The keys to the kingdom is revelation from the father ..however it is only the keys there is no guarantee of “entering” and staying.Its more like a peek into the door then the door closing again…binding and loosing.

Of course that all leads to the false construct of being “born anew” being a “spiritual” awakening ascension..etc,etc.Yahoshua continually stated one basic truth to the disciples over and over.Everything that you believe is truth ..Is NOT truth.Not because they were Jews but because they were religious(like allof mankind) and what they believed was not true at all just as all religions and religious or spiritual beliefs are false because they come from within a man..their nature.Yahoshua clearly stated it isn’t what goes in a man that defiles him it is what comes out of his heart (nature and character..their name) that defiles him.

That nature must “die” (precluded with physical death) and then be born into a new nature.Anyone who is alive now who thinks they have died physically and been born anew with a new nature ( which is not through a mothers flesh womb) is believing something that is not truth.Water baptism is a symbol of the first step of being born anew however it is NOT being born anew.Fire baptism(as in the lake of fire) is also part of the process.Of course neither is literal they only "symbolize" a process that cannot be known.

All of mankind “will be” born anew however none have been born anew.The dead are dead in Hades.None have been resurrected from Hades and born anew.The anointing(christ) of the holy spirit(Life) is a key.It is the comforter however it is not the entering in the kingdom of your heavens.That is communion (knowing) the creator God.When that communion is consummated then you have entered into the Kingdom of the creator God.

All of mankind is in a stage of conception.Either the seed has not been sown yet,they are being conceived (the spermatozoon mating with the egg) in the process of conception…zygote,embryo,fetus….however none have been delivered(saved) yet.That is the essence of Yahoshua’s parable of the seed and soils.He told the disciples... how will you understand any parable if you don’t understand this one!

The hope of mankind is that this life, is not the only life because it only ends in death.The Great hope is for new LIFE life(not death life again and again).Fortunately the creator God is causing this by the same basic process all life is formed(without your approval).The good news is there is more LIFE a “new” life and nothing you can do (or believe) that will cause it.Sit back(keep your hands in the car) try to enjoy the trip(through the suffering) and try not to make it worse for others on their trip by disseminating lies about things that aren’t true… like your religion.

We must die...in order to live. Die to live.

Die to our "selfish self". Surrender the will. To Let the blood of Christ flow in our veins, we must Die to self, we must be Born again, in Christ.

"The truest conquest, is self-conquest."

"The log sings its' song, only in the fire that consumes it"

(Source: Fulton Sheen)

a reply to: iNobody

a reply to: Ignatian

I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Ignatian

I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

Actually I noted that the majority in this thread recognize it means something like the death of the selfish personality (ego) and the rebirth as a more spiritual person.

On the other, you are the only one who separated himself from all that, saying everyone else is wrong, and that only your interpretation is right.

Here is something for you to ponder, interpretations are subjective so yours isn't more valid than the one of the majority

a reply to: Ignatian

Your right. I should approach you with more love, I apologize.

a reply to: iNobody

Originally posted by iNobody
And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

I know this is a little off topic but I felt like I had to say something here…in regards to your post above…

Why do you belittle yourself so much, with phrases like “I am nobody” and “I am Nothing” etc…?

If you are truly “born again” and understand what it truly means, then you would recognize that God has poured out a blessing onto you… and you would realize that you are NOT nothing, but that you’re a Son of the living God/Father…

Just by going off of your words, it doesn’t sound like you are “born again” to me at all…

Are you born again…? And if so, how did you become so…?


- JC

Yeah OP, when are you going to share your experience, your definition of it?

So far all you did was letting everyone share their visions then say "Welp, thanks for sharing guys. Most of you are wrong; I know the truth. OK bye".

originally posted by: iNobody
I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

You freely admit that you do not know what it means and yet you say no one else does either. If you don't know, how can you know that no one else here does either?

When someone does not know something, isn't it better to simply receive everyone's input and consider it fully rather than making general statements that no one knows? Is that really demonstrating humility?

Also, what are your requirements for someone proving they do know?

a reply to: bb23108

Originally posted by bb23108
You freely admit that you do not know what it means and yet you say no one else does either. If you don't know, how can you know that no one else here does either?

Actually, the OP claims to know what it means…in his post below…

Originally posted by iNobody
I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

He claims he knows, and that no one else on ATS has shown/proven they do know…

Just thought I would clear that up…


- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

Depends on how you look at it I guess?

Never seems to be some one all encompassing answer, minds aren't divergent.

There are currently two vastly different versions of Christianity being practiced in the United States. One version stresses the "Born Again" experience (the acceptance of Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and Savior) and is practiced by such people as Pat Robertson and Sarah Palin. The other version stresses what has come to be known as the "Social Gospel" and is supported by, among others, Bishop John Shelby Spong and Barack Obama. The first group believes that the way to get to heaven is through a belief in the sacrificial death and supposed resurrection of Jesus the Christ, while the second group believes that the proper path is defined by the admonition to "Love your neighbor as yourself" as presented by Jesus of Nazareth. It is commonly held that these differences are the result of differing interpretations of the same religion. --Alan Keyes

Born Again or Social Gospel?

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Ignatian

I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

You're coming across as arrogant, quick to judge others, and secretive. At least to me.

If you think you know what it means, then describe the experience and the circumstances surrounding it. Be open and honest and thorough, because if you don't, it will look like you're scared of our subsequent analysis.

👣

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Ignatian

I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

You're coming across as arrogant, quick to judge others, and secretive. At least to me.

If you think you know what it means, then describe the experience and the circumstances surrounding it. Be open and honest and thorough, because if you don't, it will look like you're scared of our subsequent analysis.

👣

You are correct. I apologize, if I sound arrogant. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

I was hoping to perhaps find someone who knew on here.

I am no one.

Me? Who? No one. I am not to be considered.

originally posted by: iNobody
You are correct. I apologize, if I sound arrogant. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

I was hoping to perhaps find someone who knew on here.

I am no one.

Me? Who? No one. I am not to be considered.

Just answer the question, dude! We do not really care if you are someone or nobody. We just want to have a two way exchange with you like normal people do.

What does "being born again" mean to you?


If you want to see if someone here share your view, you have to post it!

originally posted by: iNobody

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Ignatian

I have yet to meet anyone on this thread who knows what it means. But thank you for the effort. It is possible no one on all of ATS understands.

In all humility and sincerity of heart, I do know what it means. No one has proven they do as well.

And to those who may hate me for saying this, for I have people in real life, who hate me for it as well. No, I don't think I am anyone. I am nothing. You who judge me are worth far more than me. But you still haven't shown me what it means.

You're coming across as arrogant, quick to judge others, and secretive. At least to me.

If you think you know what it means, then describe the experience and the circumstances surrounding it. Be open and honest and thorough, because if you don't, it will look like you're scared of our subsequent analysis.

👣

You are correct. I apologize, if I sound arrogant. That was not my intention. Please forgive me.

I was hoping to perhaps find someone who knew on here.

I am no one.

Me? Who? No one. I am not to be considered.

Anyone who has a religious experience is someone worth listening to.

I know it's difficult sharing details of profound personal experiences. But at this point, if you want to be taken seriously, you have no choice.

And if you don't want to be taken seriously, then why do you bother posting at all?

👣