Espousing Party Politics Makes Me Not Take You Seriously

This is an area where we here on ATS don't seem to be much above the average population in terms of our understanding. Our passive acceptance of party politics, tacitly accepting what is really one of the ultimate tools of manipulation. I'm just constantly rolling my eyes when I read political threads. It's amazing how it truly never fails. Every thread, time and time again. "Well if it weren't for REPUBLICANS..." or "These damn DEMOCRATS..." It never fails. Amazing how some people literally interpret all political information in terms of the two primary political parties.

And then matters are made worse when people want to hide the fact that they'e just mindlessly repeating talking points that have been given to them by the partisan political machine, by using the terms 'conservative' and 'liberal,' as if it makes their point more thoughtful and philosophically insightful. And yet, more often than not, it exposes ignorance, because the way 'conservative' and 'liberal' are often used is totally contradictory to their meaning. 'These damn liberals want to regulate everything we do!' Well, liberal shares a root with liberty, and that is a big part of the meaning of liberal. So, that doesn't really make sense. 'These damn conservatives are pushing for a police state!' Conservative means limited government. So, to call a push for expanding government power and reach 'conservative,' again, really doesn't make sense.

Now, all this loose usage of political labels is contributing to the hodgepodge that is the language of modern political discourse. I feel this is intentional. They use the media to confuse the meaning of words, keep people attacking and defending labels, rather than thinking critically about the actual philosophy of it all. And just, over time, keep getting groups of people outraged over these labels, for reasons which become self-contradictory over time. When this is the way people think, we're so unfocused, and therefore so easy to control through distraction and appeasement of the opposing positions which were created by the very same people who will come to bring about the solution. The opposing opinions are pre-defined, with specific intended results through the 'debating' of these pre-defined positions, so that pre-defined solutions may be reached.

So, when you make everything about 'republicans vs. democrats.' To me, you're just making yourself look ignorant. I honestly don't even get how people can think that way. Like, you really think there's this group of people, that just really wants the best for you, and they all formed this 'republican party' so that they can serve your interests? And then there's this other group of people, and they have some different ideas, but they're working hard for the good of you, and those who share this philosophy can see how this group is really working to bring all these ideals about through the 'democratic party.' To me it just seems obviously naive. To think that there's no larger force which is transcendent to the parties, which uses the existence of these parties to further its own agenda, pre-defining the talking points of both parties to create conflict while ultimately steering things towards a pre-defined agenda. I don't understand how someone could not see that, and would just really think these two parties are just opposing forces that just genuinely have different philosophies. So, yea, to me, when someone is turning things into party issues, that to me is demonstrating a very shallow view and analysis of the political scene.

You take people on the internet seriously? Seriously??

I do agree though. I've never voted by party lines and will never vote by party lines. If I had to point out which politician was red and which one was blue I would likely fail miserably (besides Obama and a few other well knowns).

I vote for the best man/woman for the job. I could not care less which letter of the alphabet is placed at the end of their name. 99% of them are two sides of the same coin anyway.

Voting for someone or blindly following someone because of their party affiliation is absolutely ridiculous, but it happens. And it happens a lot.

The illusion of having a two party system is kept up simply because it divides us. A house divided can not stand and we are too silly to realize that apparently. We concentrate on who is who all the while something "sneaky, sneaky" is always going on. We can't take a long enough break from judging each other long enough to tune into the bigger picture.

Canaries in the coal mine. That's what we are. Going merrily along until the environment (everything) becomes so toxic we fall dead off of our perches.

Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy is what this reminds me of and I think the majority of the population prefers right over happy so here we sit.

This should turn out to be a thought provoking thread.

I know who I am and what I stand for. Because of that, my expectations are well managed. I normally don't vote for people who are wooing others just for their votes (and that's most everybody at the national level). I certainly will never vote for the lesser of two evils. I thought I was going to have to vote ... against Romney, and when I realized that I was a little shocked at myself.

As far as the expectation management goes, I know there will never be a candidate who completely measures up. But, I'm always prepared to take what I can get when it comes to politicians. Like Kanga, I could care less what letter they have behind their name in parentheses, unless the (R) stands for RINO.

Damn straight. The political masterminds on this site are nothing short of narrow minded argue-addicts. So many threads turn into a left vs right or republicans vs democrats.

But that's what is supposed to happen.

We are given black vs white arguments to keep us angry, occupied with arguing between ourselves rather than analysing the situation from all angles and having open discussion.

Enthusiastic political members, they make me depressed because they are fighting hard for a broken system.

Wow, I've been waiting an inordinately long time to hear someone on ATS finally say this.

This is an area where we here on ATS don't seem to be much above the average population in terms of our understanding. Our passive acceptance of party politics, tacitly accepting what is really one of the ultimate tools of manipulation.

The "liberal vs. republican" mentality is one of utter ignorance because the us or them mentality is inherently divisive and stagnating, preventing any real discourse or evolution by either party, and by party I mean individual or group. How can we continue to cling to this empty discourse when it only takes us nowhere?

I hate a Government that tells folks what they can and can't do. Beyond crimes against person or property I consider 90% of laws BS. I end up getting accused of being both parties depending on who is trying to push citizens around on any given day. Rs and Ds can both get stuffed.

Good rant and it needed to be made.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I hate a Government that tells folks what they can and can't do. Beyond crimes against person or property I consider 90% of laws BS. I end up getting accused of being both parties depending on who is trying to push citizens around on any given day. Rs and Ds can both get stuffed.

Good rant and it needed to be made.

I don't know percentage wise, but I know any law which restricts an individual's freedom, beyond his ability to harm another or take away his freedom, I am opposed to. Yea, funny how if you're just an independent thinker you can get placed into both of the 'opposing' groups.

I agree with you. People will listen to the sound bytes that are being promoted by their political party, and they won't even bother to do their own research on the issue or form their own opinion or think of the consequences of having the opinion in question.

I think that both political parties have become extremist in the past decade. Not only that, when there is a good idea, like Net Neutrality, everyone supports the idea at first - until it becomes a partisan issue! Suddenly, for no good reason, liberals support it and conservatives hate it!

Does every issue have to be polarized like this? What if the answer happens to lie in between the two extremes? What if the best system is one that is a mixture of liberal and conservative ideas?

Like I always say, I feel like I am at the proctologists watching two people argue over the 2ft blue one, or the 2ft red one, knowing either will inflict the same damage.

This thought process of yours needs to go viral like yesterday.

a reply to: TheJourney


Ummm...yeah...I kinda rail on about this myself...I've learned which members are the ones to avoid...if you know what I mean...and that's quite a list...I also try to make an effort to not get drawn into these discussions...it's pointless...
Matter of fact...I usually just steer clear of those threads and move on to something more interesting...








YouSir

I gave you a star and flag because everything you said is true. It's amazing how people will casually throw political rhetoric into a debate conversation that has nothing to do with politics and when you call them on it, they deny doing it like what they said is actually true and not complete hyperbole (which all political rhetoric is).

People don't even know what they stand for anymore. They have a bunch of prerecorded in their heads cheerleader lines that seem to express that they do, but just wait until their own party breaks one of those ideals. They'll trip over backwards to rationalize why it is ok in this case, but as soon as the other party even HINTS at doing it it becomes all doom and destruction of America talk.

Hog wash. Just another tactic to shut people up. These are times for people to speak up. These are times that we choose ww3 or no ww3. If you don't like the term party lines I will switch to policy lines. I will always vote because there is always a choice.

a reply to: TheJourney

I agree almost completely with you. I tend to think there's quite a large segment of ATS that simply doesn't get involved much because the political discussion becomes a series of canned, sarcastic, and useless responses that don't serve any purpose. Sadly some of the more important issues will never get discussed because there is so much time and energy focused on manufactured outrage.

a reply to: MOMof3

I will always vote because there is always a choice.

A choice....

Yes, once a year, between black or white - who are both ultimately grey.

What a choice... Praise democracy.

a reply to: TheJourney

I'm 100% with you on that. It's a sign "the program" is still in force.
ctrl-alt-delete .... then ctrl-F4.... then let's have a meaningful conversation about what happens next in this screwed up world.

And when you point out the obvious fact that everything and everyone in olitics is corruoted, they actually claim you are a shill for one of the parties who want to make people not vote for the other...

originally posted by: and14263
Damn straight. The political masterminds on this site are nothing short of narrow minded argue-addicts. So many threads turn into a left vs right or republicans vs democrats.

But that's what is supposed to happen.

Excuse me, hello, anybody listening over there. But this is the internet, this is ATS with an international following. What proportion of the members are from the US ?

In the coming election over here in the UK we are looking at political debates involving SEVEN political parties. Our parliament currently has members from 9 parties but one of them does not attend. Granted the prime minister will come from one of the two biggest parties but the balance of power will be held by one or two of the smaller parties.

Can you US folks ever indulge in an international conversation without wearing US Only blinkers ?!?!?!?!?

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

Can you US folks ever indulge in an international conversation without wearing US Only blinkers ?!?!?!?!?

American news almost never covers the politics of other countries unless they are on the brink of war or complete economic collapse. I don't know if you realize what you are in for when you ask Americans to talk about politics they are ignorant too. Most Americans are uninformed about their own country, much less yours.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

And you honestly believe that all seven parties have a chance?

Even if they did... do you honestly believe that whatever party got into power there would be any major changes? It's a farce. An absolute farce.

Tories, Labour, Lib Dems... Who else? Oh yes... UKIP, Plaid Cymru, SNP, Greens... Come on Yorkshirelad, don't fall for the sham that is illusion of democracy. Yes seven parties exist but 4 and a half of them are wasting their time. I don't know who will be partaking in the TV debates - that in itself is a farce. Do the party leaders look like people who will answer questions and talk the talk? No they'll get caught up in political rhetoric, avoiding questions and repeating policies which will never come to fruition.

They're out of touch with the people, motivated by private donations from big businesses and are puppets in it for the power, not for the love of us, the people.

Or wait, we could have a coalition Tories and Lib Dems - who would have dreamed it ay?

It's pathetic, and sad that we're wasting our time debating a system that is set up to fail the people. Debating it as if it is a real system that we can change with our vote.

Do you believe in these men?


Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: yorkshirelad

And you honestly believe that all seven parties have a chance?

Even if they did... do you honestly believe that whatever party got into power there would be any major changes? It's a farce. An absolute farce.

Tories, Labour, Lib Dems... Who else? Oh yes... UKIP, Plaid Cymru, SNP, Greens... Come on Yorkshirelad, don't fall for the sham that is illusion of democracy. Yes seven parties exist but 4 and a half of them are wasting their time. I don't know who will be partaking in the TV debates - that in itself is a farce. Do the party leaders look like people who will answer questions and talk the talk? No they'll get caught up in political rhetoric, avoiding questions and repeating policies which will never come to fruition.

They're out of touch with the people, motivated by private donations from big businesses and are puppets in it for the power, not for the love of us, the people.

Or wait, we could have a coalition Tories and Lib Dems - who would have dreamed it ay?

Yea, it's a principle of how things work generally moreso than uniquely about the political parties of America.