Bruce Jenner will be lesbian after transition

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: wasaka
Interesting statistics.
I understand your OP is just an informative article then?
Cool, but if you are waiting for me to request your opinion I won't, I just shared my own that I think it is lame to refrain from doing so in ones own OP. I ask nothing from you.

Buddha said holding on (clinging) to views leads to suffering.
Therefore I keep my opinions to myself, or attempt to do so.

“To force oneself to believe and to accept a thing without
understanding is political, and not spiritual or intellectual.”
~Siddhārtha Gautama

a reply to: wasaka
Yet more information factoids but without personal opinion shared in your own thread, lame.

a reply to: grainofsand

I wasn't comparing any pr-editorial aspect but only using the logic of intentional affiliation with ones own views . Surely a scientist could sort the gender issue out in a lab and have the empirical evidence to show . Ones own sexual preference should not be the determining factor weather they are either male female or other . The question then becomes what might the other might be .

originally posted by: wasaka
“To force oneself to believe and to accept a thing without
understanding is political, and not spiritual or intellectual.”
~Siddhārtha Gautama

I can't see Buddha using the word "political", so I looked this up...

Fake Buddha Quotes

Sometimes it truly baffles me that some people think a particular quote comes from the Buddha. This is a case in point, because it’s so unlike the tone and language of any Buddhist scripture.
...
The quote is actually from Walpola Rahula’s well-known book, What the Buddha Taught (page 3).

Not so sure about your other quote either...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

My sources tell me his name is being changed to Ester

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Ones own sexual preference should not be the determining factor weather they are either male female or other .

Sexual preference has nothing to do with it.
Do you not understand the difference between sexual preference and gender?
You are lamely attempting to link paedophilia with desperately sad issues of transgendered people, perhaps you would be well served to read some books other than the Bible.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: wasaka
Yet more information factoids but without personal opinion shared in your own thread, lame.

What is the deal? Why is it so "lame" to state facts
without attaching my own opinion to those facts?

Here is a fact: Suicide is higher among Transgender people
than it is among any other group.

Consider the story of Leelah Alcorn, who's parents
would not accept their teen "boy" being trans.

Here is quote from her suicide note:

"When I was 14, I learned what transgender meant and cried of happiness. After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong. If you are reading this, parents, please don't tell this to your kids. Even if you are Christian or are against transgender people don't ever say that to someone, especially your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate them self. That's exactly what it did to me."

— Leelah Alcorn, 2014

en.wikipedia.org...

Leelah Alcorn (born Joshua Ryan Alcorn, November 15, 1997 – December 28, 2014) was an American transgender girl whose suicide attracted international attention. Alcorn had posted a suicide note to her Tumblr blog, writing about societal standards affecting transgender people and expressing hope that her death would create a dialogue about discrimination, abuse and lack of support for transgender people.

Alcorn was raised in a conservative Christian household in Ohio. At age 14, she came out as trans to her parents, Carla and Doug Alcorn, who refused to accept her gender identity. When she was 16, they denied her request to undergo transition treatment, instead sending her to Christian conversion therapy with the intention of convincing her to reject her gender identity and accept her gender as assigned at birth. After she revealed her attraction toward males to her classmates, her parents removed her from school and revoked her access to social media. In her suicide note, Alcorn cited loneliness and alienation as key reasons for her decision to end her life and blamed her parents for causing these feelings. She committed suicide by walking out in front of oncoming traffic on the Interstate 71 highway.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: grainofsand

I wasn't comparing any pr-editorial aspect but only using the logic of intentional affiliation with ones own views . Surely a scientist could sort the gender issue out in a lab and have the empirical evidence to show .

They have and there is. It's still a very fresh frontier but the conclusions drawn are ones based in science.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: grainofsandOnes own sexual preference should not be the determining factor weather they are either male female or other .

It's not.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: grainofsandThe question then becomes what might the other might be .

Are you sure your question isn't "What might others might be to might other be"?

originally posted by: wasaka
What is the deal? Why is it so "lame" to state facts
without attaching my own opinion to those facts?

Starting a New Thread?

Here is a fact: Suicide is higher among Transgender people
than it is among any other group.

Consider the story of Leelah Alcorn, who's parents
would not accept their teen "boy" being trans:

But being trans isn't what motivates them to suicide. It's the NON-ACCEPTANCE (rejection, abandonment, disowning) of the parents that leads them to kill themselves.

a reply to: wasaka
I have access to search engines myself so your 'facts' are no more relevant than a factoid snippet article in the Daily Mail, or any other tabloid newspaper in the UK.
Your Buddha quote has been shot down by BenevolentHeretic quite well, and I actually did laugh out loud, so I see no reason why you can't give the ATS members the respect of sharing your opinion after they have shared theirs.
If you don't want to that's fine, but save us the factoids yeah, there is a mature conversation going on here now about society's opinions and reactions to such issues, and if you can't share that I'm not interested in whatever lame Googled info you may bring to the discussion.

a reply to: wasaka

I thought he always liked chicks, maybe now he can steal all of Chris Jenner's boyfriends and "bitch" slap her a bit. Man she's a piece of work! Good luck to him, errr, her, errr, whatever.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: wasaka
I have access to search engines myself so your 'facts' are no more relevant than a factoid snippet article in the Daily Mail, or any other tabloid newspaper in the UK.
Your Buddha quote has been shot down by BenevelentHeretic quite well, and I actually did laugh out loud, so I see no reason why you can't give the ATS members the respect of sharing your opinion after they have shared theirs.
If you don't want to that's fine, but save us the factoids yeah, there is a mature conversation going on here now about society's opinions and reactions to such issues, and if you can't share that I'm not interested in whatever lame Googled info you may bring to the discussion.

Did you know Obama had a TS nanny?

That is what I think you call a factoid.

It is interesting is it not?

Why are you being so rude towards me?
What exactly is your problem?

a reply to: wasaka
Yeah, I found out after you posted that factoid on page 1.
So what?
When I read it I just wondered are you stating it as pro or against Obama? The fact that you state things in this thread without sharing any opinion is why I question you. Did you post it as a totally neutral factoid, or with some other agenda either pro or against Obama?
If you really do not wish to share your opinion in this thread then just ignore me and I'll ignore you as I am not interested in your Googled soulless information. I'm interested in conversation with people who share their thoughts, feelings and/or opinions. You have shared none, so just ignore me as there are plenty folk here I think I can converse with.

a reply to: grainofsand

Do you not understand the difference between sexual preference and gender?

Well I think I do but I am wondering about this Jenner person . I say person because he may decide to have some operation that would make him neither and none . I like to think in simple terms of male female hermaphrodite or none sexual as in a rock not as in a eunuch .

a reply to: Cuervo

Maybe you could provide to even a wiki link to baptize me into the subject matter . Seeing you claim it has a scientific base for the determining factors that seem to vary in varying degrees Would much appreciate it .

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: wasaka
“To force oneself to believe and to accept a thing without
understanding is political, and not spiritual or intellectual.”
~Siddhārtha Gautama

I can't see Buddha using the word "political", so I looked this up...

Fake Buddha Quotes

Sometimes it truly baffles me that some people think a particular quote comes from the Buddha. This is a case in point, because it’s so unlike the tone and language of any Buddhist scripture.
...
The quote is actually from Walpola Rahula’s well-known book, What the Buddha Taught (page 3).

Not so sure about your other quote either...

Thanks for that... I stand corrected.

Regarding Buddha's teaching on "clinging to views," that
comes from the so-called “Book of Eights” which is among
the oldest sutras known to exist and represents the earliest
teaching of Siddhārtha Gautama.

It really is Buddhism before Buddhism… that is to say, this
book of eights lays down the raw ideas and unrefined teaching
of the Awakened One before they became crystallized into the
formal tradition we now call Buddhism. It is much like hearing
Jesus give his “Sermon on the Mount” rather going to church
and having a pastor give his views about Paul’s letter to the
Corinthian church.

As far as I know, it has yet to be translated into English.
The big thing I learned from this dharma talk www.facebook.com...#
is how the Buddha warned against quarreling and thinking
one’s own religious views are the “truest” or the best.

a reply to: the2ofusr1
You are of course free to think in your simple terms but you clearly have never met anyone who has felt comfortable enough with you to discuss deep feelings of gender. I hope if you have any children they feel comfortable enough to talk about any issue with you, mine do, but I doubt they ever would have if I'd preferred to think "in simple terms" which involve borders no further than my own predjudices and perspective.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Cuervo

Maybe you could provide to even a wiki link to baptize me into the subject matter . Seeing you claim it has a scientific base for the determining factors that seem to vary in varying degrees Would much appreciate it .

Are you asking me to use a search engine for you?

If there is a specific aspect to gender identity studies that you have difficulty finding, I'll help you find it but most of it is literally right in front of you.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: wasaka
Yeah, I found out after you posted that factoid on page 1.
So what?
When I read it I just wondered are you stating it as pro or against Obama? The fact that you state things in this thread without sharing any opinion is why I question you. Did you post it as a totally neutral factoid, or with some other agenda either pro or against Obama?
If you really do not wish to share your opinion in this thread then just ignore me and I'll ignore you as I am not interested in your Googled soulless information. I'm interested in conversation with people who share their thoughts, feelings and/or opinions. You have shared none, so just ignore me as there are plenty folk here I think I can converse with.

My girlfriend is transgender, expressing my feeling and opinions
on this subject is new for me... but feel free to ask my anything,
however, if you continue to be rude, I will just ignore you.

a reply to: Cuervo

after doing some basic searching I have to bow out of the conversation as it has to broad of a ambiguous reality that crosses the standard male female gender definition I am aware of . I think in man woman terms when it comes to humans and notice that Jenner does to as he wants to be a lesbian and in my mind you have to be female for that to be so but in the wiki page I was on all the standards go out the window .