The Democrats will win the 2016 Presidential Election in a landslide.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Elementalist

Believe it or not I am not jumping with glee over a possible Hillary Banker Clinton's victory, and the Reps are as Batsh11T Insane as ever, I would welcome an alternative and alot of progressive/Libs feel the same.

I've been accused for two days of "defending" Hillary when I was merely trying to get folks to look beyond the low-hanging fruit so temptingly offered.

I didn't vote for Clinton in 2008. I won't be voting for her in 2016.

I'm actually expecting another "Obama" except on the Republicans side. Some apparent unknown will suddenly be "elevated."

For me to get excited would be a Alan Grayson/Elizabeth Warren ticket in any order..I can only dream.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My mistake. You didn't qualify the 'rhetoric' comment though

I agree that hyperbole exists on both sides. Yet, even this post you say it's not as bad as the right makes out. Never matching it for the left doing the same.

In some cases, the A.C.A., it's actually worse than most of the right say. WORSE.

This is off topic, but two points here, one, if you owe money, be it in fine or unpaid co-payments and you die, they will lien you estate and recover it. All of it.

If you get 'free' coverage. you will still have to pay the co-pay portion. No money? That's OK. You'll owe it to us. Later on you get a job, then a better one...you know, upward mobility, you will bang right into that debt! Of course, as you age, your debt will grow....Now almost impossible, short of a Lotto win to get out of that bottom rung of the populace.

For the rest of their lives.....trapped... by 'free medical coverage'

a reply to: nwtrucker

I never said I liked the ACA or agreed with it. You and I can sit here and trade parts of the ACA that we each hate all day, but here's the thing. The Republicans, around the time when the ACA first went into effect, were saying that the ACA would destroy our country. Well here we are 2 years later and the country still stands. Now they point to new and interesting problems with the ACA popping up as keys to our imminent destruction as a country. Yet again and again, they piddle out with very little outcry or panic.

This is what I was referring to when I talk about the right over exaggerating the problems with the ACA as well as any other issue (this goes for the left as well). It's become a standard political arguing tactic to the point that people don't notice themselves doing it anymore. Every action the opposite party does that you disprove of (read: everything they do) has to be ratcheted up the hyperbole chain to doom porn territory. It's ridiculous. Then to make matters worse, even things that the President ISN'T responsible for get lumped at his feet by the other party (with corresponding doom porn predictions about how the President is trying to destroy the country with this thing he had no part in).

Just wait until my prediction that Republicans will win the WH comes true. Once that happens, all sorts of Democrats will be coming out of the woodwork saying that the policies of the new President are going to destroy the country. Mark my words.

a reply to: Spider879

What's you opinion of Elizabeth Warren? She loathes Wall St. types, from my understanding....

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'd like to know what elected Republican/s said ObamaCare would destroy the country. Hurt the country, yes. Cost jobs, yes. Reduce the quality of health care overall, yes. Unconstitutional to enforce buying it, yes. Plenty of points made, even before Pelosi said we'll find out what's in it after we vote it in.

Sorry, there has to be some exaggeration from the right, but I'm seeing a lot of denial on the left as well. Lots of it.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Of course. Denial is easy when the accusations are trumped up beyond actual danger. It's actually a neat trick they play. Over-exaggerate the threat to an extreme detail even if they are technically correct which gives plenty of room for the other party to play the denial game and still be technically correct. This creates the appearance of real discussion and division, when it reality, no real discussion is taking place since both sides are using strawmans to debate the other side's strawmans.

N.H. State Rep. Bill O’Brien

"And what is Obamacare? It is a law as destructive to personal and individual liberty as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 that allowed slave owners to come to New Hampshire and seize African Americans and use the federal courts to take them back to federal… to slave states.”

Rep. Michele Bachmann

“That’s why we’re here: Because we’re saying let’s repeal this failure before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. Let’s not do that. Let’s love people. Let’s care about people. Let’s repeal it now while we can.”

Rep. John Fleming

“Obamacare is the most dangerous piece of legislation ever passed in Congress.”

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

Maine Gov. Paul LePage

“We the people have been told there is no choice. You must buy health insurance or pay the new Gestapo—the IRS…Now that Congress can use the taxation power of the federal government to compel behavior or lack thereof, what’s next? More taxes if we don’t drive Toyota Priuses or if we eat too much junk food or maybe even pea soup?”

Idaho State Sen. Sheryll Nuxoll

“The insurance companies are creating their own tombs. Much like the Jews boarding the trains to concentration camps, private insurers are used by the feds to put the system in place because the federal government has no way to set up the exchange.”

Rep. Steve King

“If Obamacare is ever implemented and enforced, we will never recover from it. It is an unconstitutional takings (sic) of God-given American liberty.”

Rep. Ted Yoho

“[I]t’s a racist tax and I thought I might need to get to a sun tanning booth so I can come out and say I’ve been disenfranchised because I got taxed because of the color of my skin.”

Glenn Beck

“This is the end of prosperity in America forever, if this passes. This is the end of America as you know it.”

Sen.Tom Coburn

“I have a message for you: You’re going to die sooner…When you restrict the ability of the primary care givers in this country to do what is best for their senior patients, what you are doing is limiting their life expectancy.”

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum

“I am a little bit of a student of history and I’ve seen what that, I believe, final death knell will be to America of having government control that very critical aspect of our life, which is access to the care that we need to stay alive.

New Republic

Of course not all of them used the exact phrase: "ObamaCare would destroy the country" but I think we all got the picture.

Theme and Variations

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Spider879

What's you opinion of Elizabeth Warren? She loathes Wall St. types, from my understanding....

It's good to loathe the wall street types, yeah? They got us into that last recession. The global recession.

For those with failing memories of the recent past, here's a fair summary (via Wikipedia) of what happened in the direct run-up to the ACA passage.

On the Senate side, from June through to September, the Senate Finance Committee held a series of 31 meetings to develop of a healthcare reform bill. This group - in particular, Senators Max Baucus (D-MT), Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Kent Conrad (D-ND), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Jeff Bingaman (D-NM), and Mike Enzi (R-WY) - met for more than 60 hours, and the principles that they discussed, in conjunction with the other Committees, became the foundation of the Senate's healthcare reform bill.

Please note, the starting place for what became the ACA was with three R's and three D's.

With universal healthcare as one of the stated goals of the Obama Administration, Congressional Democrats and health policy experts like Jonathan Gruber and David Cutler argued that guaranteed issue would require both a community rating and an individual mandate to prevent either adverse selection and/or free riding from creating an insurance death spiral; they convinced Obama that this was necessary, persuading him to accept Congressional proposals that included a mandate.This approach was preferred because the President and Congressional leaders concluded that more liberal plans, such as Medicare-for-all, could not win filibuster-proof support in the Senate. By deliberately drawing on bipartisan ideas - the same basic outline was supported by former Senate Majority Leaders Howard Baker (R-TN), Bob Dole (R-KS), Tom Daschle (D-SD) and George Mitchell (D-ME) - the bill's drafters hoped to increase the chances of getting the necessary votes for passage.

The ACA was adapted to include plans supported since the late 1980s by Republican leaders in Congress. In order to get it passed.

However, following the adoption of an individual mandate as a central component of the proposed reforms by Democrats, Republicans began to oppose the mandate and threaten to filibuster any bills that contained it. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who lead the Republican Congressional strategy in responding to the bill, calculated that Republicans should not support the bill, and worked to keep party discipline and prevent defections:

"It was absolutely critical that everybody be together because if the proponents of the bill were able to say it was bipartisan, it tended to convey to the public that this is O.K., they must have figured it out.”

At the point the Democrats should have reversed course and gone back to the original plan that Obama/Biden ran under ... but they didn't. This is the point of my personal disgust with the ACA process.

Republican Senators, including those who had supported previous bills with a similar mandate, began to describe the mandate as "unconstitutional". Writing in The New Yorker, Ezra Klein stated that "the end result was... a policy that once enjoyed broad support within the Republican Party suddenly faced unified opposition." The New York Times subsequently noted: "It can be difficult to remember now, given the ferocity with which many Republicans assail it as an attack on freedom, but the provision in President Obama's healthcare law requiring all Americans to buy health insurance has its roots in conservative thinking."

I know, I know ... Republicans didn't cast a single vote for ACA. Like I said earlier, lock-step.

But it is and was their plan, and now we're stuck with it.

Congrats!

I think that you are right, OP. If you read all the signs it looks like the PTB have already decided a Democrat will win this cycle. I still don't see how Hilary is electable, but something tells me that the American People are really that dumb (look at the last four presidential elections for proof). No one will be able to stomach another Bush so Hilary will win by default.

We literally have no choices in the Presidential elections. Who wants to decide between Bush and Gore, Bush and Kerry, Obama and McClain, Obama and Romney...see what I mean? There is NO ONE worthy of being President in that list yet those are the only choices the American people realistically were presented with over the last 16 years.

It should be criminal to have such unpopular, unqualified idiots on the ballot, but then again these people commit crimes every day. See the latest with Hilary emails and 47 Republican senators for proof. All of these clowns should be in jail. Maybe they are 'too big to fail'.

Summary? Ugh / Yuck / Barf..

a reply to: Gryphon66

I guess none it this is right. Right? LMAO.

Sigh.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Gryphon66

I guess none it this is right. Right? LMAO.

Sigh.

Honestly can't understand what you are trying to say here.

Rephrase?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Spider879

What's you opinion of Elizabeth Warren? She loathes Wall St. types, from my understanding....

Wall St. fears her, Obama tried to muzzle her, and Hillary is nervous about her, even the so-called lefty press tried to discourage her, that should tell you something about her.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Spider879

What's you opinion of Elizabeth Warren? She loathes Wall St. types, from my understanding....

Wall St. fears her, Obama tried to muzzle her, and Hillary is nervous about her, even the so-called lefty press tried to discourage her, that should tell you something about her.

I fear Elizabeth Warren as well. The fact she could get elected just proves their are no good candidates.

I'm of the opinion that if the OP is right, than any and all that oppose should swamp the system looking for benefits, quit their jobs, and once and for all, crash the system.

Then we can all honestly say it was the progressives fault and start rebuilding, since in the aftermath, there won't be a whole lot left of them and they will have run into the shadows like the cockroaches that they are.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Spider879

What's you opinion of Elizabeth Warren? She loathes Wall St. types, from my understanding....

Wall St. fears her, Obama tried to muzzle her, and Hillary is nervous about her, even the so-called lefty press tried to discourage her, that should tell you something about her.

I fear Elizabeth Warren as well. The fact she could get elected just proves their are no good candidates.

Hi Metallicus why would you fear her,I don't believe you are a corrupter of government through massive buying out of public servants or making the point that student loans be paid back by the same rates and rules we gave to bankers.

This is going to be a close race, no matter how it goes, and ultimately, here is why:

The Republicans and the Democrats are trying to get voters to turn out to vote for their political candidate. And the planks are already starting to form. However there are a few things to consider, beyond the issues.

The Republican Party is in trouble, big trouble, far more now than in the past, due to foot in mouth problem. Do not think for one moment that much in the past 2 years is going to be ignored or let go of, especially with the republicans speaking and all of the stuff that came out of their mouths. And the Republican Party is going to split on issues, making it even harder for them to have a unified front.

These are on issues of basic biology, and the environment, along with issues dealing with women. Do you not think that what is said during this year will not have an effect on the voting public in 2016? Oh it will, and it gets worse. Many of those running for office have seemed to further made more of a mess of things for the party, and the democrats are watching and waiting. All they have to do is wait and then when the election gets in full swing, start hammering and reminding people of these facts. Many of the Republican politicians have shown some very bad choices in words, that will come back to haunt them.

On the flip side, the Democrats are having to do damage control, as they are going to have to ensure that their choice for President is going to be able to weather the storm of accusations. Hillary has 2 problems that will cause her more problems than anything else: Bengazhi and the current email scandals that will be something that the Republicans will try to hammer on time and time again.

It should be interesting to see who all throws their hat into the ring and see who all is going to run and make a go of it, and what comes out in it.

But I do believe that the Republicans are in trouble right now, due to the issues that they are facing and the fact that more and more problems are coming to the forefront. They are relying on a group that is shrinking in size every year, and pushing away a group that is growing every year. And it keeps getting worse and worse. If they hope to even have a chance, they are going to have to open up to all groups, including those who they do not like or even consider being equal to them if they want to win. And in this upcoming election it will come down to money and numbers.

The states that will be needed to win will be those with the largest number of votes in the Electoral College. California, Texas, Florida, New York, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and other states like that.

a reply to: Spider879

I want to see a Walker vs. Warren run. That would be amusing. Warren trying to prove that she has what it takes to run a nation with no experience against Walker who has ran (and won) at the Executive level, crushed his opponents repeatedly just by common sense alone and has won over many Democrats and Liberals within his own State.

It would be a bigger shell-lacking than the Reagan-Dukakis election!

I foresee a lot of Blue Dog Democrats coming out of the closet in 2016.

a reply to: nwtrucker

ONLY if the Dems unleash their computer hackers again on the voting machines!

Which is how Team Obama "stole" both the 2008 and 2012 elections. (Darned amazing how Romney was winning - stadiums overflowing with cheering supporters, Voting Day lines around the block that were "trending" 55% for the GOP all day - and Romney somehow LOST? Then the idiotic AP story pre-written for release the next day with the LIE that millions fewer voted in 2012 than 2008?!?)

By 2014, most states had let their expensive and glitch-ridden voting machines fall into disrepair. So in our last election, 70% of Americans voted on paper ballots.

Guess what? First time in a decade that the polls MATCHED the actual results! And the Repubs finally got a majority in Congress.

a reply to: MKMoniker

Thank goodness for paper ballots!

I wonder though, if things do not go as you seem to believe in 2016 ... what will be the excuse then?

I mean what if, and I'm just spitballing here, what if more Americans actually turn out at the polls in 2016 than the lowest turn out since the 1940s that showed in 2014.

It's 2016, and Republicans lose again ... what will be the explanation?

Anybody can wildly gesture at ridiculous partisan fantasies ... as you just demonstrated in your post.

So, just to give you plenty of time to warm up for 2016 ... Republicans lose badly at the polls with paper ballots; what then?