Black Budget Programs Proven by Snowden

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: lucifuge

There's a classified budget that can be looked up that tells you every year how much money goes into black projects. He didn't prove anything that hasn't been known for decades.

Just look back in history and you'll see it. They didn't suddenly build 60 F-117s and have them operational using public funds. They used classified program money.

No offence but isn't all money the US spends on it's military public money at the end of the day..ie, Tax dollars?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Bedlam

You mean like the $2,000 toilet seat? Or the $600 hammer? Heh.

Well, you have to launder that drug money SOMEWHERE. Might as well be contributed to the USC foundation for benthic cephalopod research or whatever, then the "professors" can spend that money on a few dozen C130s under a line item for equipment transport.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Yes. But just like the second amendment doesn't mean you get to drive an Abrams to work, tax dollars doesn't mean you get to know every secret project or secret the military has.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Yes. But just like the second amendment doesn't mean you get to drive an Abrams to work, tax dollars doesn't mean you get to know every secret project or secret the military has.

I believe every cent/penny should be accounted for because you just know someone is skimming at the top and i'm not talking $10-£20 here and there.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

That may be, but there's a reason for a classified budget, and classified programs. There is some oversight of them but they don't report to the full Congress.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm guessing the reason is so Zaph can tease and torment the Aviation Forum followers.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

That's part of it at least.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The Air Force classified budget for FY16 is around $33B. That includes almost $19B for procurement. Total classified budget for the DoD is a little over $62B.

For the DoD the budget is $62b, what about the other agencies?
I don't know for sure what agencies fall under the DoD umbrella, but add a few other "black budgets" and the numbers start to rack up.

a reply to: EA006

Most don't have classified budgets. The Intel agencies do obviously, but the vast majority of the government doesn't. The DoD is the largest of the reported budgets usually.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: highfromphoenix

Black projects are quite real, he's right about that. But he's not revealing anything that wasn't already known. The fact that they're real is obvious.

Agreed. I've never been shocked or surprised by anything Snowden has "revealed". Anyone paying attention for the last several decades already knew the NSA was snooping. This black budget thing is just another example of information that isn't new or novel.

.....

Heck...i knew about the Echelon system which is a spying partnership of 5 countries since 1988!!! at least, so nothing ive seen in the web links is new to me...and funding wise ive known about the multi agency funding via the black budget since 1986 so that aint new to me either...but what IS NEW is the sheer numbers of agencies now being funded via black budget is quite shocking...35+ agencies now is the total count...and 59 billion American taxpayer dollars!!! I darn hope part of that research and development funds gives us a super duper portable fusion generator for public use...!!!

a reply to: StargateSG7

wasn't even the tom Clancy video games like splinter cell talking all about echelon too? And that's way before 2005. Like 2002. So including pre production. Echelon was a known about thing since at least 2000 by the general public.

originally posted by: Bedlam
...

There are other budgets that don't even appear there.

....

You must continue this line of reasoning for truth.

If, in fact, there are NON-reported activities.... not only do we not have any idea about it being nefarious or benign; but we also have no responsible parties for any transgressions... no?

This is where evidence must be painstakingly deduced and corroborated. Else-wise, this is an argument about a big bad wolf; the kind that can choose to give no warning; and is impossible to identify. Paranoia, ho!

In truth, the budget itself is not designed to answer any meaningful questions about policy implementation and special dispensations for actions that could be frighteningly close to crimes against humanity... but on the flip side, it might also be found that some extraordinary, and surprisingly noble things have been done with it.

The question is, if the information exists anywhere (which I suspect might be imprudent for the principle actors) it can only be withheld under circumstances which are reasonable... to be reasonable it must provided for consideration. There is due process for a reason... so that it may be observed to be reasonable.... this big daddy government crap has got to go. I love turning it around and simply saying "If you've done nothing wrong, you needn't fear disclosure." But we know that unlike the common citizen; they have more to hide professionally than they do personally.

originally posted by: Maxmars

You must continue this line of reasoning for truth.

If, in fact, there are NON-reported activities.... not only do we not have any idea about it being nefarious or benign; but we also have no responsible parties for any transgressions... no?

Take, for example, the university foundations (or philanthropic ones...even more ironic) that are actually fronts for government agencies. Or corporations that are partially run by TLAs. The money that's routed through them isn't on ANY governmental budget. The monies that flow through those leave no trace, governmentally.

eta: it allows...ah...whatever sort of governmental entity that wants/needs to do certain things that aren't approved or are intentionally not funded to carry on with those projects they intend to run anyway. It's SO off the books that it's sort of one step beyond a USAP.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

It was unaccounted for because each program uses different accounting software, and none of it talks to the main accounting program. So they were having to physically go into the program notes and find the payments and enter them into the main program.

Boeing, Lockheed, and Northrop Grumman are the main suppliers for large Aviation programs. Grumman is known for mostly UAV programs now but all three have current black projects in the works.

No. The problem has nothing to do with accounting software, but the fact that they DON'T physically go into the program notes find the payments and enter them into ANYTHING.

Do you feel excited about projects you know nothing about who give such ridiculous OBVIOUS purposeful compartmentalized responses and who you will actually NOT know everything about, or even deny that others that you do not know about exist ??

In a nutshell you seem to claim that "we know what we need to know" is fine and dandy and even glorious.

a reply to: ParasuvO

No, I accept the fact that we DON'T need to know every military secret out there and there is a reason for it.

And yes it IS a software issue. They physically have to go through the accounting for each program and manually enter it into the main accounting system.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

In a nutshell you seem to claim that "we know what we need to know" is fine and dandy and even glorious.

In some cases, it is. And it sort of has to be that way.

originally posted by: aHEMagain
a reply to: StargateSG7

Yes, but when you saw it before, it was from Snowden.

www.dailykos.com...

My question is did Snowden really fail to back up all of the data he'd gotten to multiple encrypted locations? Because it sounds like he gave everything he had to the Guardian in care of Glenn Greenwald.

Which would explain why there are so few documents being released, and why he's been begging to come back.

He's been gelded.

aHEMagain

Uhmmm ...NO! I have seen the powerpoint presentation quite a bit earlier than that...AND THAT'S ALL I NEED TO SAY.... :-) ;-)

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

It was unaccounted for because each program uses different accounting software, and none of it talks to the main accounting program. So they were having to physically go into the program notes and find the payments and enter them into the main program.

Boeing, Lockheed, and Northrop Grumman are the main suppliers for large Aviation programs. Grumman is known for mostly UAV programs now but all three have current black projects in the works.

No. The problem has nothing to do with accounting software, but the fact that they DON'T physically go into the program notes find the payments and enter them into ANYTHING.

Do you feel excited about projects you know nothing about who give such ridiculous OBVIOUS purposeful compartmentalized responses and who you will actually NOT know everything about, or even deny that others that you do not know about exist ??

In a nutshell you seem to claim that "we know what we need to know" is fine and dandy and even glorious.

...

This is an area where i would defer to Zaphod58's
Opinion as i understand his business experience wirh numerous high tech contractors is rather significant and long term.....just sayin....

originally posted by: EA006

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The Air Force classified budget for FY16 is around $33B. That includes almost $19B for procurement. Total classified budget for the DoD is a little over $62B.

For the DoD the budget is $62b, what about the other agencies?
I don't know for sure what agencies fall under the DoD umbrella,

NSA and NRO and DIA for sure. Probably NGIA too.

NRO is very expensive.

Some of the DoD black budget, and maybe DOE too is rerouted.

but add a few other "black budgets" and the numbers start to rack up.

a reply to: mbkennel

The NRI budget is less than the DoD in the FY16 budget. I think it was around $59B.