Christianity vs scientific advancement.

a reply to: BlueMule

Nobody really invented science.... but i know what you mean.

a reply to: rokkuman

Dogmatic thinking always hold back progress of greater understanding.

Christianity used as dogmatic thinking was holding back truth seeking on all levels both looking at physical and meta physical reality.

Now days from my point of view materialism a view created by science and proven wrong with quantum mechanics is the block against further exploration. If materialism is proven false why are people like Richard Dawkins pushing it like a another religion to disprove other religions.

Give it some more time and we will probably end up with a view of reality where we think probability fields, is the thing that creates the quantum reality (that is the real reality on small scale) controlling how energy will be used and what form energy will take (every particle that we find is just a stable form of energy interacted in the probability field). Every part of this reality is able to be connected to another part of this reality thru entanglement.

a reply to: windword

Its all a matter of perspective. You have yours, I have mine.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: rokkuman

Really getting lazy with the anti Christian rhetoric now. Don't worry, I am sure this apathetic attempt will garner lots of S&F's amongst the ardent supporters.

Jesus teachings and the bible can be used in a good way and in a dogmatic ways. When used in dogmatic way it resembles the Pharisees. Blocking the gate, knowing the way, making sure no one is allowed thru. And just to be clear I love Jesus teachings, but do not at all care for Paul:s teachings.

You know what caused the Dark Ages? The absolute and utter collapse of a highly civilized society with nothing to replace it. It led to a loss of learning on a massive scale. People who were used to a certain standard of living suddenly were plunged back to the equivalent of the stone ages and had to figure out how to survive all over again.

And consider this - they were far better off than we will be when this happens to us again.

So it took them 300 years to recover from that catastrophic societal collapse. Just imagine how long it's going to take us.

You can try to point your fingers at religion as the sole cause, but that is just a gross oversimplification. In fact, there are texts salvaged from ancient Greece and Rome that survived because they were in monasteries and copied faithfully. It seems both the Medieval Christians and the Medieval Muslims had a hunger for the philosophical texts of Greece and Rome.

Clearly both groups prized those ancient texts and the ancient knowledge in them.

a reply to: rokkuman

You do know that during the Middle Ages while Christianity was wallowing in its own ignorance, the Muslim world was pushing mathematic and scientific advancement right? For instance, Algebra was invented in the 800's. The whole world isn't Europe.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: rokkuman

You do know that during the Middle Ages while Christianity was wallowing in its own ignorance, the Muslim world was pushing mathematic and scientific advancement right? For instance, Algebra was invented in the 800's. The whole world isn't Europe.

Yes and then the Muslim world collapsed too. If not for that, we might be exploring the stars to paraphrase the op. Gee, thanks for nothing.

Again, it is overly simplistic to pull out any one factor and use it to try to blame this or that thing on.

If we do that, then we can also conclude that it is a lack of pirates that causes Global Warming.

This is like trying to pin down the absolute cause of the Roman Empire's collapse. You can't just name on factor. It was a complicated list of things. but of course, it makes everyone feel better to blame religion because everyone prefers not to learn history.

a reply to: ketsuko

We appear to be in agreement for once. You cannot just look at a singular factor for the state of the present, especially a time period hundreds of years removed from us. Many different events throughout history combined to get us to the point we are at and to lay responsibility at the feet of just one of any of them is naive and short sighted. Hence my point about the Muslim world. It's not like science was being stunted across the world during those times.

a reply to: rokkuman

yep... and fighting with atheistic alien dogs from outer space.

I for one feel bad that the Europeans experienced the Dark Ages, sheesh I don't know about the rest of you?

attn thread...

I mean isn't that something, all the way back then these barbaric 'western' Europeans thought they were Gods gift to humanity, imagine that. Yes the whole world stopped for western Europe folks believe it, it did not rotate once until the end of the dark ages.

In all reality the Crown of the Church which kept their society cohesive just went home to Byzantium, who as a matter of fact did not experience this fabled "global" dark ages.

The barbaric Europeans would not even have experienced a Renaissance later if it was not for Byzantium and Constantinople (relics and materials and advancements which they stole over a 50yr period of crusades against Christians)

It was just those pompous British and western Europeans, others will realize it soon enough with the act of denying ignorance and educating oneself in history.

PS; one must remember that China and the Near East wasn't created yet during the time of the Western European Dark Age, they were created with a blessid act of the Holy Western European Barbarian the day after the Renaissance.

a reply to: rokkuman

If you want to know, in reality it was the fall of Rome, that sets a good understanding for what the Dark Ages were all about.

For centuries the Roman Empire was a unified force that brought stabilization to most of Europe. It had a vibrant trade and commerce industry that supported a reasonably secure lifestyle for millions of people.

When Rome fell, this network of trade and commerce collapsed and the European World was set into chaos. It took seven hundred years of wars, plague, and poverty before the continent came out of it and was moved into the Renaissance.

Yes we get it, you all hate science and progress.

Please do not make assumptions about me, just because i am Christian. It´s really disgusting and dishonest, to brand all the Christians as backwards, unintelligent persons.

But how about letting the rest of humanity move forward? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

Have i ever stopped you from going to school ? Have i ever stopped you from moving forwards ?

Next time try to be less polemic. You will get more stars and flags for your hatred.


Peace

a reply to: Seed76

It still begs one to wonder what China and the Near East & Middle East was doing at this time of the Western European Dark Age?

....celebrating life with rocket fireworks using gunpowder maybe?

a reply to: AinElohim

It still begs one to wonder what China and the Near East & Middle East was doing at this time of the Western European Dark Age?

The interesting part is that the Eastern Part of Roman Empire was flourishing. Since the Roman Empire was divided in 2 parts. Western and Eastern.

As for China among other stuff it was the Sung Dynasties from 960 - 1279 period with the technological and cultural growth.

A period of technological and cultural growth:

―world’s first paper money (1024)

―papermaking and movable type for book publishing

―mathematicians invent fractions; perfect the abacus

―precise lunar calendar based on phases of the Moon

―build first mechanical clock (1088)

―invent magnetic compass (1100)

―iron production for bridge building and armour

―Golden Age of Chinese landscape painting

―invent gunpowder/explosives

Source

Concerning Middle East, its interesting to note

New -Technology : With a new, easier writing system and the introduction of paper, information was democratized to the extent that for probably the first time in history, it became possible to make a living from simply writing and selling books.[14] The use of paper spread from China into Muslim regions in the eighth century, arriving in Al-Andalus on the Iberian peninsula, present-day Spain in the 10th century. It was easier to manufacture than parchment, less likely to crack than papyrus, and could absorb ink, making it difficult to erase and ideal for keeping records. Islamic paper makers devised assembly-line methods of hand-copying manuscripts to turn out editions far larger than any available in Europe for centuries.[15] It was from these countries that the rest of the world learned to make paper from linen.[16]

And

Earlier Cultural Influence : Christians (particularly Nestorian Christians) contributed to the Arab Islamic Civilization during the Ummayad and the Abbasid periods by translating works of Greek philosophers to Syriac and afterwards to Arabic.[17][18][19] During the 4th through the 7th centuries, scholarly work in the Syriac and Greek languages was either newly initiated, or carried on from the Hellenistic period. Centers of learning and of transmission of classical wisdom included colleges such as the School of Nisibis and later the School of Edessa, and the renowned hospital and medical academy of Jundishapur; libraries included the Library of Alexandria and the Imperial Library of Constantinople; and other centers of translation and learning functioned at Merv, Salonika, Nishapur and Ctesiphon situated just south of what was later to become Baghdad.[20][21] The House of Wisdom was a library, translation institute and academy established in Abbasid-era Baghdad, Iraq.[22][23] Nestorians played a prominent role in the formation of Arab culture,[24] with the Jundishapur school being prominent in the late Sassanid, Umayyad and early Abbasid periods.[25] Notably, eight generations of the Nestorian Bukhtishu family served as private doctors to caliphs and sultans between the 8th and 11th centuries.[26][27]

Source

As you can see while the Western part was recovering the Eastern Part and China and Middle East was doing well, since they interacted with each other.

But i guess its easier to blame Christians.....

Peace

I think with the technology age we live in now and the mass amount of information at our fingertips, more children will be able to grow up defeating the fairy tales they were force fed. I had access to books at a young age, but the internet is what really helped me explore and learn everything I was told would be answered "one day" by "God".

Of course we have religious and atheist scientists, but I feel the problem lies with the few parents who teach their kids science is a lie, you know the real extreme type of religious parents. I've met boys and girls even in their teens who don't understand evolution, the argument being it's "only a theory" as if it should be automatically discounted. I'm sure in some instances children may not even pursue a scientific career for fear of alienation from family. I know I was alienated by announcing my lack of belief (which I knew from a young age I never bought the hype anyways).

I mean if we had some cold hard undeniable evidence religion is an anchor slowing and stopping human scientific advancement there would be a base for argument. But for now, let the internet continue to do it's job, providing a place for freedom of knowledge and expression for those who may need that anonymity in their lives.

a reply to: rokkuman

That's a massive generalisation!

I favour both science, AND faith. One without the other, as a great man once alluded to, is worse than having neither.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: rokkuman

Really getting lazy with the anti Christian rhetoric now. Don't worry, I am sure this apathetic attempt will garner lots of S&F's amongst the ardent supporters.

So true, it is becoming quite popular
to express loathing for all Christians and even Jews
and blame them for everything
that Bush isn't blamed for.

Quite a new and exciting sport on ATS now, isn't it!

Now for a reality check, watch this:



www.youtube.com...

written by a liberal:
www.pocketfullofliberty.com...

Modern liberalism is, as many on the right have observed, increasingly illiberal and more rigidly dogmatic than even the most fevered popular conception of medieval Catholicism.

a reply to: rokkuman

First off love how its called the Christian Dark ages....when in reality its the Dark Ages. Why don't you post the data this chart is based off of. Oh wait someone made it on paint and thought they were clever. This kind of BS just makes humanity far more ignorant.

originally posted by: rokkuman

Thanks a lot, Christianity.

Yes we get it, you all hate science and progress. But how about letting the rest of humanity move forward? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

I copies your post just so the Christians and those who think another Christian dark age can't happen again can look at that graph again. Thanks.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: rokkuman
...
The religion running society ship has already sailed. We arnt gong back no matter how many anti Christ tales they tell.

Don't be too sure. During the last US presidential campaign, both major candidates submitted to an unconstitutional religion test performed by that appalling pastor Rick Warren. In violation of the constitution there's also a Faith Based Office in the White House. Another Dark Ages is knocking at our door.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: rokkuman

Really getting lazy with the anti Christian rhetoric now. Don't worry, I am sure this apathetic attempt will garner lots of S&F's amongst the ardent supporters.

Oh, it's anything but apathetic.