Dawn Arrives at Ceres: Coverage

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

You can look at the raw LROC images to track the astronauts movements. Here is one of them. The Apollo 15 Landing site is not quite 2/3rds of the way down, slightly left of center. Keep in mind a couple of things:

1.) The EVA traverse map was drawn before the LROC imagery was available, so the drive-routes shown are only approximate, based on astronaut memory.

B.) Astronaut footpaths are generally more conspicuous than rover tracks. This is because in 1/6th gravity vacuum, the astronauts' boots tended to scuff an inch or more thickness of fine lunar dust and kick it in sprays more than a foot wide. You can see this in all of the EVA footage (a nice example is this video, between 42:50 and 43:40).

III.) The mesh rover tires were only a few inches wide, and their ground-pressure from was much less. From orbit, the most visible tracks are where the wheels dug-in when Dave Scott steered suddenly. You can find some sections of straightaway where the soil must've been less-firmly packed.

Just on a quick glance, I was able to find evidence of astronaut activity near the marked positions of Stations 1 & 3, and rover tracks near Station 4.

originally posted by: drakus
Moar Ceres is needed:

originally posted by: Answer
So I'm curious... if the "lights" on Ceres are just sunlight reflecting off of ice either on the surface or in the atmosphere, why are they showing up on the dark side?

Is the reflective cloud high above the surface, causing the sunlight to hit it over the horizon?

If you notice, the right rim of that crater is also being sunlit. So that means the sun is still shining on things at least as high as the crater rim. This bright feature may be something (plume of material or a solid feature) that is higher than the crater rim, and thus is still in sunlight.

The Dawn mission looked carefully for elevated terrain at the site of the bright spot. They report that none was found.
The only evidence we have of vapor plumes on Ceres is of very thin, wispy ones. Not the sort of thing at all likely to produce spots that reflect 40 percent of the light they receive.
Then too, this reported figure for reflectivity (albedo) is very likely low, as the bright spot has not been optically resolved, as yet. It still appears smeared out and, so, dimmer than it will presumably be found to be, eventually.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

If you notice, the right rim of that crater is also being sunlit. So that means the sun is still shining on things at least as high as the crater rim. This bright feature may be something (plume of material or a solid feature) that is higher than the crater rim, and thus is still in sunlight.

That was a possibility I considered but that would mean the feature was quite tall... so it would basically have to be a mountain peak with reflective material on top which doesn't make a lot of sense in the bowl of a crater.

Also, the size, shape, and brightness of the "light" are nearly identical to the other images when it's in full sunlight. If the reflective feature was just coming over the horizon, how would that be the case?

originally posted by: Ross 54
The Dawn mission looked carefully for elevated terrain at the site of the bright spot. They report that none was found.
The only evidence we have of vapor plumes on Ceres is of very thin, wispy ones. Not the sort of thing at all likely to produce spots that reflect 40 percent of the light they receive.
Then too, this reported figure for reflectivity (albedo) is very likely low, as the bright spot has not been optically resolved, as yet. It still appears smeared out and, so, dimmer than it will presumably be found to be, eventually.

Good info and adds even more to the bright spot mystery. If what you're saying is true, there's almost no way the spots are a reflection of sunlight.

originally posted by: AgentSmith

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ItalianDressing

Even if there was something there, they will just block it out like they do with any other images.

Why did they release the images in the first place if that were the case , they could have just photoshopprd the bright spots out of the images.

Because some people think this is some big game with clues or something. Like the plot of a Hollywood movie like 'National Treasure', 'Conspiracy Theory', etc.

Sad thing is that there is so much people could be taking part in. Data is available from missions either in near real time or after any proprietary period that's been set in a raw form usually. If you don't have the knowledge and expertise to process it there are many citizen science projects out there doing all sorts of things. Lots of ordinary people have managed to discover new objects, planets, etc.
Instead of piling money into sham websites, books, DVDs, etc all telling you, quite frankly, a crock of s**t you could help fund organisations like SETI so they can continue with projects. You can also just donate some time in processing data or even developing new algorithms:

SETI Live

SETI Quest

Planet Hunters

Zooniverse

Ordinary people have made significant discoveries, even ending up with their name son scientific papers, in the press and even becoming mini-celebrities.

Yale astronomers, along with citizen scientists from the Planet Hunter program, recently discovered a small planet that has a strange orbiting schedule.

Hanny's Voorwerp

A Newly Confirmed Planet and 42 Additional Planet Candidates

Just so much people could be taking part in and actually helping with...

And as I said, there are data repositories that anyone can access for pretty much all missions containing countless terabytes of data. There is literally so much that only a tiny fraction of most if not all missions has been fully analysed and new discoveries are being made all of the time. It's really quite incredible.

Or..

You can just watch YouTube videos made by ad whores telling you a really cool story, that has no foundation in reality.

What an excellent post!!!!! I've starred it. It's 100% correct. I've said this before and truly believe that if a lot of these "anomalies" crowd would actually get involved in the real search for planets, life and intelligence in the universe through the above citizen science projects (shoutout also to Disk Detective) then not only would the sciences themseleves benefit but they themselves might make a groundbreaking discovery and if not then they'd at least learn something along the way.

But I guess it's more entertaining to watch photoshopped hoax videos on Youtube.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes
It's sad how almost every thread on ATS that is even vaguely related to science always ends up with a handful of rational people defending a shedful of delicate machinery from a mob with torches and pitchforks. I hate how anti-intellectual the US has become.

I agree, perhaps this subject would be the topic of an epic ATS thread. If you post it, please let me know. I'm just an undergrad but I share what I know, what I've been taught or learned in my own research and as you said, most of the people in these sciences are accessible. It's not some "Dark Box" like that laughable post alleged.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: AgentSmith

Agent Smith? You presume a lot. How do you know your assessment of my intellect and abilities are accurate?

Because of the words you use, the sources of "information" that you draw from and find credible and your lack of understanding of basic physics.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Ross 54
The Dawn mission looked carefully for elevated terrain at the site of the bright spot. They report that none was found.
The only evidence we have of vapor plumes on Ceres is of very thin, wispy ones. Not the sort of thing at all likely to produce spots that reflect 40 percent of the light they receive.
Then too, this reported figure for reflectivity (albedo) is very likely low, as the bright spot has not been optically resolved, as yet. It still appears smeared out and, so, dimmer than it will presumably be found to be, eventually.

Good info and adds even more to the bright spot mystery. If what you're saying is true, there's almost no way the spots are a reflection of sunlight.

There are still many people who think that exposed ice on the surface of Ceres is the correct explanation for the bright spots. I respect them and their right to this opinion, even as I have grave doubts about it.
Ceres is a novel environment for us to explore. No one can say with certainty what the bright spots are, or what we might discover on Ceres.

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
a reply to: game over man

It was obvious what you meant but the they jumped on the literal use of your words and trolled. It was rude of them.

I agree it still bothers me quite a bit, as I bumped the thread with an important update tweeted from Dawn and received zero respect.

Excuse me, isn't that what you're are supposed to do on a message board?!?!

Instead of giving me credit for bumping the topic, they jumped all over me in mob like fashion. I'm pretty offended actually. There is a separate thread on the Ceres bright spots in the Alien/UFO forum....oh but look what forum we are in....

I picked this thread because it's more suitable in the Space Exploration forum as the lights 99% most likely have nothing to do with ET. So I don't know why I got picked on?!?!?!?! And no apology to boot!

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes
It's sad how almost every thread on ATS that is even vaguely related to science always ends up with a handful of rational people defending a shedful of delicate machinery from a mob with torches and pitchforks. I hate how anti-intellectual the US has become.

I agree, perhaps this subject would be the topic of an epic ATS thread. If you post it, please let me know. I'm just an undergrad but I share what I know, what I've been taught or learned in my own research and as you said, most of the people in these sciences are accessible. It's not some "Dark Box" like that laughable post alleged.

It's even more sad when people's online alter ego mistakes the internet for something else entirely thinking it is some exclusive club that has a lot of strict requirements to be a part of. Sorry, you'll just have to not be so stubborn next time and pay attention to your surroundings. This isn't a private NASA/SETI message board FYI. Wake up.

Attention to the ATS all star science team...We all have the same requirements to post on here and that is an email address and typing the code in the spam filter. I hope that helps as a reality check to whom your counterparts are on this message board. Anyone who has an email address an not a spambot. Wow, could be anyone!?!?!

I'm only pointing this out because I take responsibility in being a community leader, in any community that I participate in. Shooting the messenger and then taking their update and continuing on the conversation without giving any credit is extremely amateur and pathetic, extremely. This was done to me earlier in thread to those who are just reading this now. Which actually is proof and fact that we aren't on a private exclusive message board with polite intellectuals.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: AgentSmith

Agent Smith? You presume a lot. How do you know your assessment of my intellect and abilities are accurate?

Because of the words you use, the sources of "information" that you draw from and find credible and your lack of understanding of basic physics.

Thank you for saying it politely for me, everything I was thinking of wasn't so I gave up in the end. :-)

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: Asynchrony
All of these photos are enhanced though, right? In reality Ceres is covered in darkness and would be barely visible with the naked eye.

What do you mean "covered in darkness?" Dawn is there in orbit around it. The sun lights it up just like it lights up Earth. Have you never seen a picture of a planet before?

You know, there's been several threads about Ceres. I could've sworn (94% certain) that another ATS user replied in one of them that the photos needed enhancement so that you could see the surface and they described that the lights were barely brighter than the actual light around them and that the lights could barely be seen at all without the enhancement.

I'm trying to find it but I can't seem to.


EDIT:
This thread www.abovetopsecret.com...
swanne writes:

Let us not forget that the brightness of this image has been enhanced - Ceres is actually almost black. So the spots could really just be grey, not luminous.

Yes, the images from Ceres are said to be contrast stretched. Black is rendered black, but the lightest shade of grey is represented by white. They began by saying that Ceres as a whole reflected 9 percent of the light striking it, and the bright spot 12 percent.

They're now saying that the bright spot reflects at least 40 percent. It's still not resolved optically, but smeared out over a larger area than its true size, as it was, but even more so, in the Hubble images.
It will presumably be smaller and brighter, in proportion to its reduced reflective area, when better pictures become available. No one can predict how small, or how bright the bright spot will be when it is finally resolved.

a reply to: JadeStar

Again, you presume a lot. Think what you like.

The nasa press briefing says bright spots though
Could be angels there.
a reply to: Asynchrony

originally posted by: Nochzwei
The nasa press briefing says bright spots though
Could be angels there.
a reply to: Asynchrony

Thought I would throw this Hubble photo into the mix. In some strange way it reminds me of Ceres..

Okay I'm getting tired of waiting. Where are these new pictures the Dawn mission was supposed to deliver? My God it is in orbit around the planet it seems like we should've received some better pictures by now. Including pictures of the bright spot area when it is on the dark side facing away from the sun.

originally posted by: Greathouse
Okay I'm getting tired of waiting. Where are these new pictures the Dawn mission was supposed to deliver? My God it is in orbit around the planet it seems like we should've received some better pictures by now. Including pictures of the bright spot area when it is on the dark side facing away from the sun.

The thing is, Ceres rotates every 9 hours 4 minutes. That is its day. So increasing quality of photos could come in a little more infrequently.

It may also be true that if it is on the "Other" side of us, being Ceres blocks line of sight, we may not be able to receive the images, which i would question. Ceres is not as big as "Other" bodies out there. Depending on the speed that Dawn is traveling in its orbit would determine the transmission windows.

One thing for certain, if the results NASA receive from Dawn are questionable and of a "unknown" origin, it will take a act of "God" to get the results

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Thank you for the explanation. I was not that curious about the bright spots at first. But with the void in information since Dawn started orbiting, I am beginning to question my initial response toThe bright spots.