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EL Elyon Our Merciful Creator in Heaven VS. yahweh the war "god"

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posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 10:31 PM
a reply to: arpgme

May Peace be with us All

There are many experts and laypeople, including myself, that agree with the conclusion that you have stated; El and Yahweh are two separate deities.

As many know, the proper name for the national God of Israel is Yahweh (YHWH). Each time we read "LORD" fully capitalized in the English translation of the Old Testament, it represents the name "YHWH".


The God El is known as the Father of the Gods, with YHWH being one of His Sons.


The following Biblical passages, amongst others, clearly depict El as the Father God, with Yahweh as His Son.

[Bold brackets are my emphasis]

1. The gods (elohim) stand in the congregation of El. In the midst of the gods (elohim) He [El] judges.

2. [The elohim asked El] “How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked?

3. Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.

4. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

5. They [mankind] know nothing, neither will they understand. They walk in darkness. All the foundations of the Earth are shaken."

6 [Replied El to the elohim] "I have told you gods (elohim) that you are all Sons of Elyon.

7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

8 Rise up, O God (Elohim), judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

- Psalm 82:1-8

[Oldest Version, also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls]

8 When Elyon (the Most High) allotted peoples for inheritance, When He divided up the sons of man, He fixed the boundaries for peoples, according to the number of the Sons of El.

9 Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob (Israel) His own inheritance.

- Deuteronomy 32:8-9

Ascribe to Yahweh, O Sons of EL, ascribe to Yahweh glory and strength.

- Psalm 29:1

For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh, who among the Sons of EL is like Yahweh

- Psalm 89:6



Furthermore, the Documentary Hypothesis ([1], [2], [3]) proposes that there are different ideological inspirations behind different parts of the Bible. Two proposed sources originate from the followers of Elohism/Elism and the followers of Yahwism/Jahism (in addition to the Priestly and Deuteronomic sources).



By the way, the name Israel means he struggles (isra) against God (EL) could this be symbolic of how they chose yahweh the war god as their god instead of sticking with El (which was the name of the Creator of all who was merciful)? What do you guys think of all of this?

I agree that the Hebrew-Israelites abandoned the worship of El for the worship of Yahweh (Israel = To Fight Against El). In the thread, New Proposed Etymology: "Israel", I proposed that "Israel" actually means:

"To fight against the God El."
"The followers of Yahweh persevere against El."



Anu is a fallen angel.

There is evidence throughout the religious systems of the Levant that portray El and Elyon as two separate deities. I believe that if we study the archetypes, qualities, attributes, powers, and mythologies of the Greco-Roman, Canaanite, Judaic, and Mesopotamian systems, we can better correlate the different deities to their inter-religious equivalent.

Most High:
An / Anu (Mesopotamia)
Elyon (Bible & Canaanite)
Uranus (Greek)

Father God:
Enlil and/or Enki (Ea) (Mesopotamia)
El (Elohim) (Bible & Canaanite)
Cronus (Greek)

Sons of the Father God:
Marduk (Mesopotamia)
Yahweh/Yahu (Bible & Canaanite)
Zeus (Greek)

edit on 3/6/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 01:32 AM
a reply to: Sahabi

Very informative!

I called Anu a fallen angel because of how he's potrayed in the Sumerian stories: He enslaved humanity to find him gold. He forbid them Knowledge, just like yahweh forbid Knowledge of God and Evil because he didn't want people to realize The Truth about what he really is.

Jesus Christ warned us that we are supposed to have Knowledge about the Fruit of Good and Evil because the devil ("the ravening wolves") pretends to be something good ("the peaceful sheep") so we needed to awaken to The Truth.

Here is The Knowledge of the so-called "forbidden" Fruit of Good and Evil given by Jesus Christ himself:

Matthew 7:15-20King James Version (KJV)

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jesus taught us to keep this Knowledge in mind so you can be careful for deception. He said that you will Know them by their fruit. If they claim God is merciful do they do the works of Loving Mercy or are they ravening wolves with a heart set on destroying? Yahweh seemed to be a "wolf in sheep's clothing" and based on the stories of Anu from the Sumerian it seems to be the same bad fruit (actions) from the same rotten tree (the deceiver).

Of course the being could have just claimed to be Anu but really wasn't like yahweh later claimed to be God , they were into worshiping many "gods" so it's possible they were deceived like that but since The Words of Jesus in The Bible seems the most consistant with The MERCIFUL God of Heaven who created all (The GOOD Fruit) - I'll call him Elyon ("The Most High") and Abba ("The Father") like he did; even though yahweh may have tricked people to put verses inspired of him in there...

I will just use discernment through Knowledge of Good and Evil about The Good Fruit (Elyon - The Merciful) and The Bad Fruit (yahweh the jealous and vengful war "god").

edit on 7-3-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 05:51 AM
a reply to: arpgme

If you believe in aliens creating humans to mine gold on Earth, Then how hard is it to not take everything else so literal.

As the points and pespectives in them are close but yet different in their own way?

I don't understand where you are going with this really lol. But don't take it all literally. I mean you could if you really wanted to. But religion won't give you the answers you want.

Neither the bible nore these other texts in this case the mesopotamian scriptures reflect the truth in it's entirety.

The human species has been on with earth for Millions of years. Summarian records are only as old as 6000 years old. Which is a blip. A fragment of 1,000,000 Which isn't the full ammount of time humans have been living on this planet.

With the bible only being 2000 years old ( Jesus Scripture) Lets make a comparison using some math.

2.8 million (The current estimate of how long humans have been on earth VS 2000-6000 year difference. How many times can 2000-6000 go into 2,800,000 years? lets find out.

So by comparison for Jesus's religion. Jesus could of came and left 1400 times in the entire span of humans existing on Earth. Now as for the summarian gold legend.

This is just weird. Honestly. But here are the numbers. 2,800,000 ^ 2000= 1400 2,800,000 ^ 6000 = 466.66666666666667

Which is a bit weird honestly. I don't like to get to crazy about *numerology* but those specific numbers multiplied came out strange lol. 13 6s after the decimal point ending at a 7.

Anyways point being. You could take the entire time the bible has existed. And multiply it 1400 times to span all of human existance. Or you could take the babylonian story and multiply it by 466.666.

Regardless neither of these religions would be *Authentic* given the time frames. To me both of these religions are like Scientology. They hold no water. Are based on false presumptions. And are what interpritations of what the current culture * Wants to hear* about how they came about from nothingness.

It does not make any of this remotely true at all. Given the time frame, It's more likely the tree of life mentioned in the bible is exactly what it sounds like it is. The Tree of life. As in, the entire tree of life. All the species. Chaining from the oldest least complex organism all the way to us as preprosed in the theory of darwinian evolution.

Now, lets say you for instance took a bite of the fruit of the * Tree of life*. In our modern interpritation. Taking a * Bite* mean quite literally take a chunk of DNA out and inserting new DNA.
When Eve convinced Adam to eat the fruit too. They both * lost* immortality. And Eve instantly became pregnant. Now how could that be possible chronologically if we were to relate it to real life?

The only thing we can relate this to is genetic engineering, Where where male and female are fully established. Does it mean we were cast out of perfection? In some way yes. The perfect body prior to being a human would of not required sexs. We were made in the likeness of their image but are infact not them at all.
It is our reproduction that sets us apart quite clearly. And when adam and eve noticed this they knew they were naked. Because the knowledge of the tree granted them knowledge to know what their reproductive organs were for and what they could do. Which made them feel vulnerable and so had to hide them.

Now this isn't a real scenario, it is only symbolic. Because later in the story, Mutants are roaming the planet. Fallen angels seed woman since woman is now reproductively active. It generates giants that terrorize the villagers. The entire planet becomes a playground for genetic engineering. As the tree of lifes knowledge can create both Good and evil. Quite clearly. Take a look at GMOs, Genetically modified organisms and pay attention to the debates online.

You'll see a stricking similarity parallelled to the bible. Now these are universal truths, No matter how we humans come about to these conclusions, It will always end in the same result. Corruption of the human species and the nessisity to purify the land so that humans are not lost to corruption forever.

We are seeing this now, In our day and age. This is no longer religious myth but is infact becoming 100% fact.
Does that mean satan tempted us to take of the fruit? No. Does it mean adam and eve even existed at all as literal characters? Not at all. Does it mean that fallen angels are even real? Define fallen angel, Cuz any angel that lands on Earth is considered *fallen* As that is what the term means. Those that land on Earth. Therefore what even is Satan? Just any obsticle to humanity? Satan isin't even described in the mesopotamian religion and is more of an adaptation of the war against felines and serpents.

Which is recorded around the planet in various cultures all retelling the exact same thing that shouldn't be taken 100% in full context very much like the bible shouldn't also be taken 100% in full context.

Now in reality, Why the hell would aliens create humans to mine gold? Like it sounds kinda good on paper. But when you realize there is more monoatomic gold in the ocean than all the gold that can mined from the Earth combined. Humans are not even useful for such a task. Machines are. Milling machines.
Second, If a species can basically create US humans. which are far to complex for the degrading task of only collecting gold. Why go to all these lengths in protecting us? Third. The mesopotamian gods were losers. Physical reptile like beings who could bleed like me or you.
We tend to withhold the terms *God* from those that bleed but i guess from anyones perspective a god is a creator reguardless of mortality.

However, in my case where i have physically seen aliens for myself. The creatures i saw were not Flesh and blood. And are vastly superior to any alien description on youtube, in alien theory websites, or in the holy scriptures themselves. Infact, the E.T i have encountered are so poweful and unfathomable that non of the books you are reading could honestly prepare you for what really exists out there. I have personally witnessed it. I AM the witness. I know for a fact, it is not belief it is knowing 100% what is out there and what is possible.

And the terror, Awe, beauty, all encompasing defintions that Awesome describes. Awesome is what they are. In the full definition of the word. I compare the awesomeness to the sight of a super volcano erupting. I can only compare it like that because a volcano erupting is an awesome experience. Or maybe watching a 50 ft wall of water sweep an entire city into a pulp. I would describe that with the same awesome expectations of seeing one of these things.

What are you going to do when you realize that maybe, just maybe what created us happens to be way to henious, to uncomprehensible, That the only way to fully understand what i am saying is for you to experience them in all their glory.

How would you stop an army of shapeshifting consious animated particle state beings forged in the fires of Hades? From the blackness of space itself?
You wouldn't. Because it is the most terrorfying thing in all of existance. And it's right here, On your doorstep.

You don't know me, You don't know God. You can pretend all you want. But all that is waiting for you is a lot of disappointment and * I told you so*s.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 11:29 AM
a reply to: arpgme

Text By the way, El is Hebrew for God not yahweh. Jesus called God "Eli, Eli" "Abba" "Most High (Elyon)" but not yahweh a war god. Ellah is Aramaic for God, and Allah is Arabic; so Allah does not mean lucifer as some claim but is the Arabic word for God.

The Apostles called God YAHUAH which is pronounced Ya - hoo - ah. His begotten Son's name is YAHUSHA which is pronounced Yah - hoo - sha.

Take a look and tell me what you think.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 11:53 AM
a reply to: AnuTyr

Which is recorded around the planet in various cultures all retelling the exact same thing that shouldn't be taken 100% in full context very much like the bible shouldn't also be taken 100% in full context.

AnuTyr, you need to write a book and I am not simply jesting of criticizing you. I am dead serious.

Explain just how much of the collection of manuscripts, which we call the bible, should be taken literally and by what authority should we sort this mess out? People must have such an authority else they would be floundering in a maze of literary misguidance such as they seem to be in now. I agree that we should be able to divide the words of truth from fiction but where is the solution?

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 03:54 PM
a reply to: Rex282

Yahweh is the creator God because Yahweh’s name (nature and character) means “I will be what I will be”…that is the only way the true God could be.

My dear brother,... when we pray or meditate beyond personal-ego, thought, emotion, and desire, or experience this in our daily activities,... when we are mindful and center ourselves in the present moment,... we commune with One and experience the conscious state of 'I AM'. When we experience this state of consciousness, we do not seek to do things that YHWH did, said, and commanded. Instead, we have a natural Love, Peace, and Compassion that manifests without effort. YHWH is actually counter to 'I AM'.

“I salute the light within your eyes, where the whole universe dwells. For when you are at that center within you and I am at that place within me, we shall be one”

- Chief Crazy Horse

edit on 3/7/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 06:09 PM
a reply to: AnuTyr

How would you stop an army of shapeshifting consious animated particle state beings forged in the fires of Hades? From the blackness of space itself? "

So you admit the darkness is not of God but is of the fire of hades (sheol/hell). If you want to worship beings from the outer darkness instead of The Light of God The Heavenly Father (Elyon), then that is your choice. Jesus taught people how to recognize deceivers from the darkness, the ravening wolves in sheep's clothing so that people can be careful since all the beast does is lie and try to trick people into thinking it is God.

There is ONE God and he is perfect Light with a perfect brightness of Love. There is no darkness within God. God is Perfect and full of glorious Light.

"The Light shines and the darkness has not overcome it."

GOD'S Will be done and GOD'S Kingdom come on Earth as it already is in it's perfection in Heaven.

Let The Light within humanity so shine to Glorify God in HEAVEN who shines with glorious Light as The True Father of Humanity.

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 08:11 PM
a reply to: arpgme

Good and Bad Fruit manifests through our words and actions (outer). Words and actions manifest from thought and emotion (inner).

Jesus preached introspection (inner-working) (Matthew 7:1-5), the bettering of ourselves, and living by the deeds and actions (Matthew 7:21-23) of Love (Matthew 22:36-40).

But these things come easier when we come to the One.

edit on 3/7/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 7 2015 @ 11:59 PM
a reply to: arpgme

Yes i would because such beings can sap and drain a * light being* AKA plasma being dry.
Almost as if it didn't exist.

They can also destroy a soul completely and utterly obliterate it.

Besides, Warelions/warewolves appeal to me a lot more than light does..

At least i know my Gods and i know who created the human species. I'm still waiting on * Light beings* tho and their grand appearance. They are no where to be found.

And besides, These *Darkness* beings can stand fully within light to no effect. They can shapeshift to have a humanlike skintone which is pale white in the moonlight or under a street light.

They can also keep their dark matter forms under the presence of light as well, as in standing directly under light. Day or night. Light cannot hurt them, nothing can.

I'm going to vouch for something that borders on death and life so that i too myself will one day become like them. A living spirit.

Well at the same time, I could take on a multitude of animal forms in combinations as well. I would re-enact the book of Revalations if i seriously tried in such a case. How many Sphinxs are there around the globe?
edit on am3u3115Sun, 08 Mar 2015 00:19:07 -0600 by AnuTyr because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 03:49 AM
a reply to: Sahabi

Yes, Jesus taught the importance of Loving actions and introspection. I think beliefs come first than action, though. I think it starts from within.

Consider this: If a person believes that the world is flat and if they go to the edge they'll fall off and die, will they take the action of traveling "around" the world? When people discovered that their belief was false then they felt safe and free to travel around the world to discover new areas.

It starts from within (Beliefs) and then it goes out (expressed as action).

You sow (the seed within) and then you reap (the fruits grown from within)

"Matthew 15:17-18 King James Version (KJV)

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."

"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things." - Matthew 12:35
edit on 8-3-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 09:32 AM
This is certainly an over-simplified question in a thread with so many great comments and thoughts, but, here goes...

From a universal perspective, does it even matter what you call God? Or even which God you worship? I mean, if all of your actions and intentions are for good and love - does it matter? Isn't it simply a construct at this point?

Or is naming the correct God important somehow in sending energies in the right direction?
edit on 3/8/2015 by kosmicjack because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 8 2015 @ 10:32 AM
a reply to: kosmicjack

From a universal perspective, does it even matter what you call God? Or even which God you worship? I mean, if all of your actions and intentions are for good and love - does it matter?

In my opinion, no.
I am of the opinion that there is One God, Infinite Faces. Whether we understand the Most High as a supreme God, or as pantheon of Gods, or as an all-encompassing, all-transcending, and all-emanating Spirit, Æther, Mind, Self, Consciousness, Energy, Matrix, Life, Force, Chi, or as nature and the Universe,… it is the same God seen with different Faces. God: My Gnosis. All, my relative-subjective opinion, of course.

Personally, I joined this thread to discuss scripture and it's context, not to defend or propagate Judaism or Christianity.

edit on 3/8/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 9 2015 @ 03:33 AM
a reply to: kosmicjack

I believe it matters because if you call God "Quetzalcoatl" for example, people may think you are worshiping a dragon who demands human sacrifice as the Aztecs believed since that was the name for that specific being.

It leads to confusion when speaking to others.

If yahweh is the name used fot the war god of israel and Elyon (or Abba - Heavenly Father) was the name used for the creator of heaven and earth, full of mercy, teaching non-violence then going with that name will lessen the chances of confusion when speaking.

posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 12:38 PM
Excellent thread. Excellent discussion. There have been a lot of comments that I have to think about more.

I think it's VERY important Who you call God and Who you send your energies to. And i do think there is deception in the Old Testament as to Which 'god' is actually talking. The God of the OT, many times, doesn't seem to be the God of Jesus.

A long while back, one of the Super Mods (Niteboy) and I had a discussion about these kinds of things and he said something I never forgot. He said 'it's all about the energy'. That made sense. Who, or what, is getting your energy? Your meditation energy? Your prayer energy? Who/what are you feeding?

posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 02:31 PM
a reply to: FlyersFan

'it's all about the energy'. That made sense. Who, or what, is getting your energy? Your meditation energy? Your prayer energy? Who/what are you feeding?

When I started the thread, Discussion: Harness the Power/Energy of Mecca, I was wondering and pondering along those lines. In the instance of Islam, millions of Muslims direct prayers directly toward Mecca 5-times daily, in all time-zones, and have been for about 1,405 years! That is a LOT of human intention.

Could it be, that "something" is utilizing the energy from our spirituality and prayers?

posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:38 PM

originally posted by: Sahabi
Could it be, that "something" is utilizing the energy from our spirituality and prayers?

Makes sense to me. Who/what are we feeding? And are we sure we are feeding something that is good for us or is it something that claims to be but really isn't?

posted on Mar, 10 2015 @ 03:41 PM
Isn't that kind of what the Gnostic texts say?

posted on Mar, 12 2015 @ 11:59 AM
a reply to: arpgme

I called Anu a fallen angel because of how he's potrayed in the Sumerian stories: He enslaved humanity to find him gold. He forbid them Knowledge, just like yahweh forbid Knowledge of God and Evil because he didn't want people to realize The Truth about what he really is.

I believe that your stated opinions about An/Anu are based upon inaccurate tellings from various New Age teachings, Ancient Astronaut Theorists, and pseudo-mythologists.

The "Creation of Man" myths of the Fertile Crescent (Mesopotamia) varied from ruling-period to ruling-period and region to region. In fact, the greater scope of ancient Mesopotamian religion underwent some three to four thousand years of development and evolution. The beliefs of ancient Mesopotamia may be crudely categorized by the ruling periods of Sumeria, Akkadia, Assyria, and Babylonia. During the Sumerian ruling period, there was no finalized religion nor complete Anunna/Anunnaki pantheon.

• Opposing the Ancient Astronaut Theory: Religion & Mythology (Anunnaki Chapter)

• A Mesopotamian Primer


The myths I am familiar with make no mention of gold or mining at all. The Mesopotamian myths simply say that mankind was created for the "service of the gods," and to "ease their burdens". The types of services mentioned are farming, agriculture, irrigation, architecture-construction, and the making of crafts, textiles, tools, and weapons.

An/Anu didn't have a significant role in creating, stagnating knowledge, or culturing mankind. Enlil, Enki/Ea, Nammu, Ninhursag, and (later) Marduk feature predominantly in such myths, with An/Anu only being mentioned collectively with the "Great Gods," or the 7 major Anunna/Anunnaki.

• Sumerian Mythology, By Samuel Noah Kramer

• Eridu Genesis

• Enuma Elish

• The Shrine of Flesh Production



Anu is the "Most High," not a fallen one. As mentioned in my first post of this page, the comparative three-tiered hierarchy equates Anu with Elyon,.... Enlil + Enki with Elohim,... and Marduk with Yahweh.

As always, the discussion is my pleasure. Peace!

edit on 3/12/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

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