North Korea Is A Liberal Utopia

a reply to: works4dhs

What is Progressivism?

It steadfastly stands against

militarism,
the concentration of power in corporate hands,
and the disenfranchisement of the citizenry.

It champions

peace,
social and economic justice,
civil rights,
civil liberties,
human rights,
a preserved environment, and
a reinvigorated democracy.

Its bedrock values are nonviolence and freedom of speech. - See more at: www.progressive.org...

There you go - a cheat-sheet just for you.

Now - what does Progressivism mean??
(Open-source quiz)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Glenn Beck is the current source of the bete noire irritation most right-wingers call "Progressivism."

A big part of his schtick is to go back to Teddy Roosevelt and the early Progressive movement from the late 19th to early 20th century and tie that to the Democrats, the liberals and the "leftists" in the US, Wilson's support of the Federal Reserve, and other shibboleths.

The Progressives (1890-1920) did pass the Amendments for income tax (16), direct election of Senators (17), Prohibition (18) (which originated with Evangelical Protestants) and a Womens' Right to Vote (19), and so forth. Of course, Prohibition was repealed with the 21st Amendment.

They favored the breakup of monopolies (which almost made it into the US Constitution, by the way) and T. Roosevelt particularly was known as a trust-buster.

Progressives wanted to apply the latest scientific and academic understanding to all areas of life, supported labor unions (which of course at the time WERE also associated with Socialist movements). As the 1930s progressed, some of the leaders of the movement became reactionaries (right-wingers, Conservatives ... Hearst, Ford, etc).

Contrary to Beck and others who want to tie the Progressives directly into FDR and the New Deal, most of the late Progressives were appalled by Roosevelt's policies.

And of course, reactionaries want to tie all of that to the Democratic party and to the modern Progressive Caucus in the Congress ... which is where you are quoting from Buzzy ...

For Beckistanians, however, just keep in mind that progressive=liberal=Democrats=socialism=fascism=communism, and in short, everything that right-wingers hate regardless of the facts of the matter.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I won't say here what I would like to do with Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

(Hint: it is NOT 'have sex')

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What is really frustrating to me personally of course, is that after certain folks gesture broadly at progressives-liberals-et. al. and "leftists" without making any distinctions or addressing specific issues.

"Progressives are totalitarian. Progressives are Communists. Progressives want to control everyone's lives and take away freedom."

(You know the silly spiel).

In every case there, the opposite is true. But trying to make that point EVERY TIME IT COMES UP would take every topic off-topic.

They know this; that's part of the tactic.

a reply to: Gryphon66

A big part of his schtick is to go back to Teddy Roosevelt and the early Progressive movement from the late 19th to early 20th century and tie that to the Democrats, the liberals and the "leftists" in the US, Wilson's support of the Federal Reserve, and other shibboleths.

Wilson said that he regretted what he'd done.

“Issue of currency should be lodged with the government and be protected from domination by Wall Street. We are opposed to…provisions [which] would place our currency and credit system in private hands.” – Theodore Roosevelt


Despite these warnings, Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote: “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” -Woodrow Wilson

And of course, that post-dates the Founding Fathers' points of view entirely.

a reply to: Gryphon66

In every case there, the opposite is true. But trying to make that point EVERY TIME IT COMES UP would take every topic off-topic.

They know this; that's part of the tactic.

Yes, you are right. I've been considering making a thread about it, but it isn't like any of them would read it with an open mind to learn how utterly wrong they are.

It's like little kids on a playground. Immature. But that it is happening with adults is truly reprehensible.

Thanks for being here. I'm no political expert, or economist (I'm more of a sociologist and anthropologist), but I try. When I went to college I learned Critical Thinking. When I was a kid I was taught to 'question authority' and also - when I had questions - to LOOK IT UP.

Why go to North Korea when most of the world is based on the principles of liberalism? Apart from places like North Korea. This thread makes no sense and is a poorly crafted cheap shot at an ideology you clearly have no understanding of. The principles of liberalism was what the enlightenment was founded upon

a reply to: woodwardjnr

The principles of liberalism was what the enlightenment was founded upon

Exactly.

Thank you for adding your voice to the debate.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You and I had similar upbringing.

The basic rub is this. A great majority of the people on each "side" are merely followers. They learn a few pat phrases and use those over and over and over again. If you watch, sometimes it doesn't even make sense, quite often in fact.

When challenged, these folks go ballistic because they have nothing to back them up. They go on the attack against whoever is trying to make them think.

Everything at every level is a balance of forces. Free market and government control. Personal freedom and group welfare.

Whenever you have someone telling you what you believe, with no evidence, and in contradiction to your own statement, you're in the presence of an extremist.

I wish I had the wisdom to just ignore them.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I wish I had it, too.

But, here are few more Founding Fathers' statements that EVERY AMERICAN should be just as aware of as they are of what our flag looks like:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809)

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” –Thomas Jefferson

“… The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating.” -Thomas Jefferson


“History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” -James Madison

“If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” -Andrew Jackson

Here's the source of the quotes above and the previous two I provided: www.themoneymasters.com...

sigh

I would love to expatriate myself. But I can't afford it right now.

"Progressivism stands against:
militarism,
the concentration of power in corporate hands,
and the disenfranchisement of the citizenry.
It champions
peace,
social and economic justice,
civil rights,
civil liberties,
human rights,
a preserved environment, and
a reinvigorated democracy. "

Progressive dislike: "militarism":: A strong military is a waste of money and they're a bunch of icky knuckle-draggers anyway.
"Concentration of power in corporate hands":: because we can't control corporations. we want power in our hands.
"Disenfranchisement of the citizenry":: the democrats use extensive vote fraud so let's not 'disenfranchise' anyone.

"Progressives want: Peace":: appease the mean people and maybe they'll leave us alone. the real enemy is US Conservatives and Christians anyway.
"Social and Economic Justice":: translation; we take from working people and give to non-working democrat voters. also known as 'vote buying'.
"Civil Rights; Civil Liberties":: suck up to the African-American voters with rhetoric and a handful of congressional seats. Hope they don't see how bad we're running the schools.
"Human Rights":: appease the GLBTs, since they vote for us. Don't talk about what the muslims do to LBGT types.
"A Preserved Environment":: make millions of acres of land off-limits to ordinary Americans and businesses, especially those evil oil companies. Let them all live in concrete box apartments in the city. (of course the Pelosis and Kerrys etc will still have country estates and go on leisurely rural vacations.)
"A Reinvigorated Democracy":: add millions of now-illegal aliens to the voter rolls. surprise surprise, they vote 90% democrat.

as I said, it's about definitions. always be cautious dealing with operations that insist on defining themselves.

originally posted by: works4dhs
as I said, it's about definitions.

Wow, you did the same thing grandmakdw did back on page 6, those are not definitions.

The very word "liberal" comes from the latin word "liberalis":

līberālis m, f (neuter līberāle); third declension
1. Of or pertaining to freedom
2. dignified, honorable, befitting a freedman
3. generous, liberal, bountiful, ample

Allow me to repeat that for anyone who may be confused:

"Of or pertaining to freedom"



To attempt to define and/or associate the word "liberal" in any other way (ie: taking away freedoms) is not only disengenuous, it's an illogical brain impediment.

... no doubt brought on by the disinformation spoonfed and brainwashed into the American masses via your politicians and their beloved media henchmen.


Unfortunately for the rest of us on ATS, we have to listen to these ridiculous puppet talking points on a daily basis.




/rant

a reply to: CranialSponge

And The Patriot Act, pertains to everything patriotic, because they called it "The Patriot Act".

lolz

a reply to: beezzer

If your country has hijacked the words "liberal" and "patriot" and misused/abused/redefined them... that's not my problemo.

It's up to you guys to put the words back into their appropriate place.



Here, have some round bacon as a symbol of my friendship:




Nuthin but love for ya bunny boy, nuthin but love.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: beezzer



If your country has hijacked the words "liberal" and "patriot" and misused/abused/redefined them... that's not my problemo.



It's up to you guys to put the words back into their appropriate place.







Here, have some round bacon as a symbol of my friendship:

Nuthin but love for ya bunny boy, nuthin but love.

People hijack terms all the time.

From the names of political parties to the very laws that they write.

You'll never see a political ideology called, "The Freedom Stealing Soul Haters of Death".

No, they'll call themselves "The Wonderful Fluffy Kittens of Rainbows and Unicorns".

Even though they are the freedom stealing soul haters of death.

I'll wait for some REAL bacon, thank you!

a reply to: beezzer

People Politicians hijack terms all the time.

There, fixed it for ya.



When average everyday people do it, it's because their repeating verbal vomit they heard coming out of their favourite political mouthpiece.

a reply to: works4dhs



Whatever. Think what you want. Your entire post is a case in point of the ignorance rampant in the GOP Uber-conservative AynRandian Idiocy of this country's Rabid Religious Right.

But - no matter!!! You don't have the slightest interest in learning anything new, or accurate - so -why start now?

ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!!!

a reply to: CranialSponge

LOL!!! On this I have to agree with beezzer. Canadian Bacon is awful.
Gristly, doesn't cook properly, and ...... well, no thank you.

a reply to: beezzer

No, they'll call themselves "The Wonderful Fluffy Kittens of Rainbows and Unicorns".

Even though they are the freedom stealing soul haters of death.

What? No. On THIS I will vigorously disagree, and ask you if you have reached your threshold of info absorption (because it appears to be the case - that you have lost your ability to reason).

But on bacon, well - you're right.