North Korea Is A Liberal Utopia

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'll have to part ways with you there. As a tree-hugging liberal Christian with delusions of grandeur, I love belief. I think it can bring out the best in us or the worst, depending on what trait is already there in the personality to begin with- humanism or fundamentalism. A humanist is a humanist with or without belief. Same goes for fundamentalist.

The vast majority of believers are doing religion wrong, but that's because religion has been rendered dysfunctional by science, instead of growing with science, and it takes a long time for that kind of thing to correct itself. But it will.

As long as people have the capacity for symbolic thought and the ability to experience a wide variety of altered states of consciousness, we will have religion and myth in one form or another. The only alternative is for us to become like the Borg. No one wants that.

In the meantime, the academic fields of comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism can help combat extremism, by helping people become aware of the religious heritage we all share. Education is the key.

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originally posted by: Maverick1
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yeah, find me a classic liberal and not a hypocritical leftist and we can discuss things all day....considering the fact that classic liberals and conservatives both really want the betterment of their fellow human beings at heart, and only differ in how to achieve that.

But, alas, classic liberalism is stone cold dead, hijacked by these weird intolerant and hypocritical leftists that hide behind the label.

Okay, why not talk about what you find in "classic liberalism" that you agree with or tell us what you find so appalling about "hypocritical leftists" ... because at this point you're just waving in random directions, sputtering.

That is, if you're interested in dialog rather than dogma.

a reply to: BlueMule

Well, there you go! Two individual thinkers who came to different conclusions about issues.

I can't go along with you that we only have two options: religion or the Borg.

Studying religion is fine. Heck, having religion is fine. There are areas of experience that science can tell us nothing about (as yet).

I have no issue at all using philosophy, religion, magick, et. al. to fill those spaces, if someone requires it.

Using fable in place of fact, however, has resulted in the worst results far more often than the best.

Thanks for offering a perfectly reasonable rational response though.

I don't have to agree with anyone, as long as they communicate honestly.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, thank you... it's truly a pleasure talking to you. It just goes to show that honest, individual, reasonable thinkers can disagree about things in a civil tone. Even things as difficult as religion.

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Many on the modern right-wing consider the following to be synonymous terms:

liberal
progressive
Democrat
socialist
atheist
fascist
Marxist

Discuss.

a reply to: Gryphon66

you left off "communist"


and
bleeding heart
lily-livered
tree-hugging

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, it's almost as if they painted a stereotype on the floor for us to stand in order to form ranks and files pleasing to their eye. Well, I can't accommodate them. I'm a Christian, a liberal, a democrat. Granted, I'm a very unorthodox Christian. But I strongly oppose Marxism and fascism.

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Anyone that would embrace government control over individualism,

Anyone who would encourage a removal of responsibility,

Anyone who would endorse laws and measures that inhibit freedoms,

Is no friend of mine.

Call them fascist, progressives, commies, . . . . . . whatever.

the labels may change, the owners may obfuscate and blur the lines and play on definitions.

But call "them" what you will, they are an enemy of liberty and freedom.

a reply to: beezzer

I agree.

It's all about the level of authoritarianism.

The more authority it takes to enforce an ideal, the more ultra Left Wing-Progrssive it is IMO.

a reply to: beezzer

Anyone that would embrace government control over individualism,

Anyone who would encourage a removal of responsibility,

Anyone who would endorse laws and measures that inhibit freedoms,

Is no friend of mine.

So.....
you have a beef with the itemized list of Progressive ideals as posted above? By me? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Call them fascist, progressives, commies, . . . . . . whatever.

If there's nothing on that list that offends your tender little bunny sensitivities, please do refrain from calling others "Progressives" and commies when you are so lacking in knowledge. It makes you sound uneducated and rather, well - misinformed.

a reply to: beezzer

Freedom is one of the most precious words in the world to me. It's right up there with love, compassion, and faith.

I deeply love America. But maybe that's not really saying much, since as a bleeding heart tree hugger and Christian I try as hard as I can to practice unconditional love for everyone, everywhere no matter where they are from even though people really piss me off sometimes.

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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'll call those that embrace those restrictions a damned cheese sandwich if it suits me.

Names aren't important, though.

It's the actions that speak louder than any words.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I see North Korea as an example of the culmination of what would happen if liberals had their way in the US.

Only military and government officials can own motor vehicles...great for combating global warming.

All legal televisions are tuned to state-controlled domestic programming...helping to spread the progressive agenda.

Most North Koreans subsist on corn and kimchi, a pickled cabbage...which is good for the environment.

Annual GDP per capita is about $1,800...which keeps people relying on the government for their needs.

Electric power largely shuts down at night, and the homes that have electricity often receive only a few hours per day...which is good for the environment.

Nearly all property belongs to the state...allows for the government to allocate resources.

Religious freedom does not exist...allows liberals to have their utopia without God or religion.

North Korea has a network of informants who monitor and report to the authorities...allows liberals to keep the public safe and controlled.

Resources and education are controlled by the elite...allows the liberal intelligentsia advantages they deserve for leading the oligarchy.

North Koreans born after the Korean War are about 2 inches shorter than South Koreans on average...allowing for less consumption by the masses.

Only 2.83% of the roads in North Korea are paved...which is good for the environment.

Marijuana is legal and not considered a drug...allows for a more controllable population.

North Korea is officially not Communist it is "Juche"...liberals are not communists (they told you so).

North Korea has 51 "Social Categories" ranked by their loyalty to the regime...allows for better social engineering.

In the last 60 years, over 23,000 North Koreans have defected to South Korea. Only two South Koreans have gone to the North...which solves the illegal immigration problem.

North Korea has its own operating system called Red Star OS...which allows for the Government to keep their citizens safe from Western influences.

Possessing Bibles is punished by death in North Korea...allows liberals to stamp out Christians and their annoying religion.

Wearing jeans is illegal in North Korea...not sure how this is useful, but what the heck.

North Korea holds elections every 5 years in which the ballots list only one candidate...keeps the liberal oligarchs in power.

Disclaimer: This post is somewhat tongue in cheek.

Sure. Why not.

Don't know where this came from, but it might be accurate....

a reply to: BlueMule

I married a lefty, liberal tree-hugger.

We get along just fine, even though I'm an ignorant narrow-minded bastard.

found this written by a liberal:

Modern liberalism is, as many on the right have observed,
increasingly illiberal and more rigidly dogmatic
than even the most fevered popular conception of medieval Catholicism.

Liberals even have their own self-appointed Inquisitors, who prowl about the Internet seeking the ruin of careers for the slightest impolitic comment.

It’s depressingly easy to run afoul of the High Inquisitors of the Left. In many cases, an insufficient zeal on the part of the offender for their pet issue is enough for them to launch a hostile social media “campaign” from their parent’s basement.

Not convinced climate change is appreciably impacted by man? Heretic.

Question whether government spending on schools correlates with success? Reprobate. Think boys and girls are, biologically or otherwise, different and distinct? Blasphemer.

Fail to show adequate sympathy and uncritical acceptance of a victim group? Oppressor.

Insufficiently account for all the various permutations of queer when discussing social policy? Malefactor.

Believe America is a better country than most? Sinner.

Better than all? Colonizer.

The scoldings are severe, and sustained. While most are ultimately inconsequential,
every so often you’ll see a celebrity or other public figure cowed into submission by the thought police.

Liberals seem very keen on freedom of speech,
including offensive speech,
until that speech offends them.

Then they bring terrible social or legal pressure to bear upon the hapless stooge who failed to demonstrate properly formed revolutionary ideals, or who dared to question the arbiters of socio-scientific wisdom.

It may be funny when they turn on each other,
but we shouldn’t forget their favorite snack is a conservative.

www.pocketfullofliberty.com...

God dammit, I've had enough of this crap after 7 pages. I've had enough of it as a constant social trend to begin with. Will all of you SHUT THE HELL UP a minute? This is not a contest of who's DIY ego stroking can make them feel best. This kind of lowbrow bickering bullsnip gets us precisely nowhere.

Certain members in this thread need to park it and zip it. They're supposed to be an example of the elder being wise, albeit they're flunking that hard right now. Be quiet, observe, parse everything out, compare, compromise -- all the crap you expect the youngins to do. Instead, you're littering the thread with half-truths, inaccuracies, and worthless chest-thumping. What do you expect to accomplish doing that? No one listens to the old fart who doesn't do any listening themselves, especially one who thinks they're above continually learning. A one-way street life isn't. That actually goes for everyone, on both sides of the red & blue fence.

ALL Americans need to stuff the better-than-thou spiel. There is no advancement in fixing this country's massive problems if all we collectively do is point fingers shouting, "It's yer fault, _insert party here_!" What needs to be done is everyone needs to come to the table acknowledging what doesn't work. What clearly doesn't work. Not just what you, one sulking voter doesn't like because what one doesn't like, many others are willing to at least try. It's that until proven wrong idea. You can't map everything out in a spreadsheet and think it's good to go or a flop, variables in life don't get accounted for (like collective willpower to overcome party lines to work for a common goal, if it ever happens) Wrap your minds around the concept of working together and fricking try it out once or twice.

Can we do this? Can ANYONE try? Let me be the first to admit that Republicans have some ok spending ideas I can get behind, and that Democrats have some ok social ideas I can get behind. I can go from there & compromise within reason and expect fairness within reason. Can YOU?

a reply to: Nyiah

Yes ma'am.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Nyiah

Yes ma'am.

Sorry bunneh buddeh, I've just had it up to my eyebrows with the party affiliations being used as excuses as to why no one will work together on something. It's well shown when bills are up for debate, and more so when crap is tacked on a good bill that would work for the country because one party of the other wants to give their foes the middle finger.

Sick of this ish. So sick of it. Immaturity reigns in the US from the civilians straight through the government. We already know it, why do we allow it to continue? Because blame is better than taking responsibility & actively fixing what's wrong.

a reply to: Nyiah

I agree considering the OP was somewhat tongue in cheek to begin with and explicitly stated as much. It sure didn't take long for things get nasty.

But it does show how far apart people are in mind.

And it brings me to an observation I was thinking of earlier this afternoon, does no one think that the more hostile you present yourself to certain camps the more likely they are to entrench themselves even deeper and farther apart from the position you endorse.

And yes, I do tend to fall more or less in line with the bunneh in terms of government. It has its place, and its' place is most definitely NOT in running the intimate aspects of my life.

I have been most plain that while I will argue the social conservative position many times, it is not from the angle of wanting government to enforce it. That is not government's job. You cannot force people to live the way you think they ought to from any side of the divide, not unless you are willing to stick a gun to their heads to make them do it. My argument in favor of social conservative positions is generally from the attempt to make the case for it not to advocate for it legally.

That being said. I am now backing out of this thread again.