North Korea Is A Liberal Utopia

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: xuenchen

Swing and a miss.

The current deficit has the Republicans' names all over it. They own it.

"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." (Dark Lord of the Sith, and US Vice President Dick Cheney)

Hey! That's an insult to Sith everywhere. Sith have much more style.

👣

a reply to: Annee

To be fair, there are plenty of places where the Liberals/Democrats behave in exactly the same manner.

In general, using reason and logic has been replaced by talking points and emotion in most places these days.

And ATS is not immune.

It is to be expected in the dumbed down society we have where one is taught what to think in school instead of being trained how to think.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Totalitarian: Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.

*it is the liberals who wish to control thought through language by making the use of certain words that "offend" people a cause for termination of employment and social ostracism

*thought control and religious suppression and attempting to force people into actions that violate their religion or conscience, also extends to economic punishment of bakers and florists who choose not to violate their religious principles by participating in events they don't wish to; when there are plenty of other options (stores, florists, bakers) for the shopper to choose from to obtain the same item

*it is under the Democratic administration that the IRS engaged in suppression of the opposition through questionable and decidedly partisan decisions against conservative groups (thought control again)

*it is the Democratic administration that has usurped the school lunch program (see #thanks michelle) by micromanaging and attempted control of the lunch program in every school in the US

*it is under the Democratic administration that several huge facilities were built to store all the emails and routing of all phone calls in mega buildings around the US, and rather than get rid of spying on everyday americans, the current Democratic administration has greatly expanded spying on all americans as often and as intrusively as possible

*it is under the Democratic administration that it has been recommended to use smart TV's to "watch" how much individuals sit on their couches to promote "better health"

*it is the Democrats who are attempting to delete all religious expression in public, making their visceral loathing of all things Christian and Jewish apparent through their words and their actions toward these groups of people; through the use of the do not offend others meme (by the way your remark toward my religion fits in this category)

*it is a Democratic President who has decided that he can make laws without the consent or will of the people taken into account, he has actually through executive order changed law (Obamacare) which is unconstitutional, as only congress can change law or enact taxes; he is currently seeking to enact taxation without representation

*it is the Democrats who feel that government control of every aspect of society is a utopian goal of the party

*John Kerry advocated jail for climate deniers, again thought control

In my opinion, the true liberal thinkers these days are Libertarians, and if I thought they had a prayer of winning, I'd vote Libertarian in a heartbeat.

I would report you for violations of T&C, but won't for your personal attacks. I have shown you every respect personally and I expect the same from you. We can disagree with ideas, but personal attacks are rude and actually forbidden in the T&C. ATS is supposed to be a place where one can banter about opposing ideas without personal attacks which do nothing to forward the exchange of ideas. If I choose not to "link" to some internet article to "prove" my point, what business is that of yours? Just ignore me. The internet is a very dicey source of information and I got tired of searching for "internet proof" for people I don't know and don't really care if they don't like my opinion, so what, my opinions are just that, my opinions, take them or leave them. If people have trouble with my vocabulary, they can use dictionaries, not my problem. It was past my bedtime last night and I was too tired to keep going, none of your business really. My polite way of leaving the thread for the evening.

imho today's US democrat party is not 'liberal', it has a different philosophy, which might be called progressive statist. there are very few traditional liberals left in the US.
and I agree, Nork is in many ways similar to what the US would be if the dems really took over. Schools would be indoctrination centers, media would be in lockstep (two choices, CNN and MSNBC), elections would be democrat primaries. gummint would control all aspects of life. food, vehicles and resources would be restricted. but the ruling elite (Obamas, Clintons, Kennedys, Pelosis, Kerrys) would continue to live the good life.

a reply to: works4dhs

I don't see how that can be done and still stay within the confines of the US Constitution.

No. The scary thing about American liberals is if they had their way, everything might work too well. Which is absolutely great, as long as you're a liberal. The scary thing about American liberals is that if they had their way, it would literally be illegal to be anything else and the only people who would see anything wrong with it would be criminals.

I've been saying it for ages. People think when tyranny really comes to America (and I know it's already here to an extent) it's going to look like tyranny. The kind of tyranny that scares the hell out of me is the kind that almost no one recognizes as such. Whether it calls itself liberal, conservative or libertarian is irrelevant. If you don't have a choice or a right to your own opinion, you're screwed.

The polarization of the U.S. recently has made me sick to my stomach. Everything is always an issue of left vs. right. Even common sense measures brought to the floor that should see strong bi-partisan support fails and flounders because one side very often decides to block that measure simply because it was the other side's idea.

"You're either with us or against us" is a dangerous game to play when the livelihood of millions of Americans are used as bargaining chips. And the media is knowingly complicit in this game. Stations like MSNBC and FOX News play to the extremes of their political backers. Moderate or centrist views are dismissed, any politician who has centrist ideals is immediately demonized by both sides, they're painted as either unreliable or "flip-floppers". Independent voices are silenced, left to squander in obscurity only to be found by people who desire REAL change, and then to be immediately disheartened in the reality that while independent/centrist views are likely the only LOGICAL solution to the two-party problem, it will never come to pass.

And then you have threads like this, which only serve to continue this corrupted system of left vs. right. You're a democrat? Why, you're just like North Korea! You're Republican? Go live in Russia! I know the OP was tongue in cheek, but the responses to it certainly aren't. And this thread serves as another stark reminder of how the two-party system is, and HAS failed the United States. Fewer people are willing to reach across the aisles to compromise. More and more people retreat into their respective political hugboxes, and any others outside that box are the enemy.

Well, America, those people outside your hugbox aren't the enemy. Your broken system is.

a reply to: beezzer

South Carolina circa 1840 if it was stable.

Detroit present day if not.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I don't know why there are even two parties.

We have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The Supreme Court looks at rules/laws meted out by congress to insure that they meet Constitutional requirements.

The president leads the nation, yet still has to abide by the Constitution.

Any political party that wants to move away from the Constitution, is therefore looking to negate what America is (was) and to change it into another type of country.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

IMHO this was the only rational reply in this thread. The rest is partisan BS and it is out of control and pointless. These debates on ATS only serve to drive me further away from society.

Must be time for another ammo run. Your rights to believe whatever stupid partisan BS you want stops at my property line.

Enjoy your illusion of choice, and this pointless bickering. It makes me Nauseous.

ETA: SRG, I recommended you for applause for having rational thought in a world of partisan nightmares.

a reply to: beezzer

Completely agreed. Although the Constitution isn't perfect, it should be the most important document to every single American citizen. Undermining that document or changing it to benefit only some, and not ALL should be treason.

ETA: I do know that amendments to the Constitution are a sad necessity as our society evolves and changes, but those amendments should be very carefully considered and only implemented with a clear head.

a reply to: stosh64

I honestly feel a lot of sympathy for people still living in America. There are certainly days I miss my homeland, but more and more I'm beginning to feel I've made the right choice in becoming an ex-pat.

a reply to: grandmakdw

So, if "a liberal" thinks that a person should obey the speed-limit or not beat dogs with 2 x 4's they're totalitarians???

What absurdist/absolutist nonsense!

To believe and participate in the "rule of law" is not totalitarian.

Your examples are nothing more than pleadings for special rights for religious folks. You want Christians to be able to ignore laws which establish fairness that have been established for centuries in our tradition of common law and in our written codes (public accommodation.)

Give your examples of people being fired for use of certain words and we can discuss it. You're merely waving at a dragon in a sack at this point.

Oh, wait ... that's asking you for real-world examples of your spurious "claims" isn't it? You should just be able to post whatever nonsense you wish and have it be taken as fact? If you're tired of having reasonable discussions, then ... do something else? Read the T&C for this site.

The rest of that garbage we'll write off as your "opinion" and leave it there.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I don't know why there are even two parties.

We have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The Supreme Court looks at rules/laws meted out by congress to insure that they meet Constitutional requirements.

The president leads the nation, yet still has to abide by the Constitution.

Any political party that wants to move away from the Constitution, is therefore looking to negate what America is (was) and to change it into another type of country.

Like I said somewhere else, totally reasonable posts lately. You have verbalized my own beliefs exactly. Whenever you think I am supporting "the Government" remember what you said here.

This is what I mean. Thanks!

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I don't know why there are even two parties.

We have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The Supreme Court looks at rules/laws meted out by congress to insure that they meet Constitutional requirements.

The president leads the nation, yet still has to abide by the Constitution.

Any political party that wants to move away from the Constitution, is therefore looking to negate what America is (was) and to change it into another type of country.

Because people need a figurehead to blame.

What would we do without "mine vs yours"?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Except that ... in America, these extreme positions get themselves elected to State Houses and Congresses and Governor-ships and Presidencies AND THEN tries to implement those extreme positions on the rest of us.

Our current situation exists because one "side" believed that the other "side" would do what was best for the people when they got elected to these high offices. What happened then was that "side" pursued their own agenda exclusively, ignoring what was best for The People in order to serve their political patrons.

Now, the real riddle is ... which "side" is which?

a reply to: grandmakdw

The parties have not flipped their platforms, that is a myth.

No, it is not. It is the truth.

You are so misinformed that it blows my mind. I don't usually step into this poop-slinging arena, but you are WRONG on EVERYTHING you have said. So is xuenchen.

I admire Gryphon's tireless efforts to educate you people as to what Progressives want, and can scarcely believe the audacity of those of you who, despite being schooled over and over again, STILL spew your nonsense.

There is no shortage of explanations of Progressives want - you can look it up any day you like, without having to hear it from people on ATS who you refuse to understand. But you can't be bothered, I guess.

yawn

a reply to: Gryphon66

That is the question of the decade isn't it? However, it may not be the correct question.

I think the question that should be asked is "How did America get to this point, and what must change to restore the POWER of choice, and not just the illusion of same?"

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

The parties have not flipped their platforms, that is a myth.

No, it is not. It is the truth.

You are so misinformed that it blows my mind. I don't usually step into this poop-slinging arena, but you are WRONG on EVERYTHING you have said. So is xuenchen.

I admire Gryphon's tireless efforts to educate you people as to what Progressives want, and can scarcely believe the audacity of those of you who, despite being schooled over and over again, STILL spew your nonsense.

There is no shortage of explanations of Progressives want - you can look it up any day you like, without having to hear it from people on ATS who you refuse to understand. But you can't be bothered, I guess.

yawn

As others have pointed out your criticisms (and Gryphone) of conservatives are as off base and wildly absurd as you claim mine are about liberals.

Therefore, our opinions are so far apart as to be irreconcilable, and in that case we should ignore each other. Although I think you will disagree with this, as you have a visceral idea that you must disagree with anything a conservative says.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: grandmakdw

So, if "a liberal" thinks that a person should obey the speed-limit or not beat dogs with 2 x 4's they're totalitarians???

What absurdist/absolutist nonsense!

To believe and participate in the "rule of law" is not totalitarian.

Your examples are nothing more than pleadings for special rights for religious folks. You want Christians to be able to ignore laws which establish fairness that have been established for centuries in our tradition of common law and in our written codes (public accommodation.)

Give your examples of people being fired for use of certain words and we can discuss it. You're merely waving at a dragon in a sack at this point.

Oh, wait ... that's asking you for real-world examples of your spurious "claims" isn't it? You should just be able to post whatever nonsense you wish and have it be taken as fact? If you're tired of having reasonable discussions, then ... do something else? Read the T&C for this site.

The rest of that garbage we'll write off as your "opinion" and leave it there.

I am not advocating special privilege for Christians and Jews, just for liberals to leave their visceral loathing and open hatred of Christians and Jews at home and not drag it into legal "punishment" for one wanting to follow their religious values, and not be required to perform actions that are totally against their religion. In other words, live and let live, which is something the neo-American-liberal will not do.

A for the rest of your rants, well it is just your opinion.