A Most Unsettling Trend: Christians Rejoicing in ISIS

a reply to: BlueMule

i realize that, that's why i mentioned her political (life long) voting choice. my dad was a democrat, too. as were most of my family. and they were / are all fundies and always have been.

a reply to: Xtrozero

www.veteranstoday.com...

You really are a hardened killer, then. Wow. I just don't have the capacity to imagine thinking of humans ripped apart as "bugsplats" in a video game.

Sickening.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: randyvs

Heya Randy!

Why do you say patheos is ugly and sickening? It's a major hub for discussion of ALL THINGS religious - and has bloggers who represent every point of view there is.

The site itself I know nothing of of it Wigs. It is most likely just
as you say. I was referring to the article sourced. And it seems like
a very biased piece of hate in my view.

originally posted by: Tangerine
The Muslims took it to mean religious war. Bush didn't write his own speeches. They were vetted and words like that were used intentionally.

The Muslims have taken just about everything and used it to justify a religious war since that is all they have as a true motivator. With all that you said still doesn't make it a religious war on our part. We didn't kill anyone because of their religion, we didn't destroy religious sites etc. If it was truly a religious war we would not have kicked butt then failed miserably in the aftermath as we stood around with little orders as to what we needed to do next...

a reply to: randyvs

okay then! Fair enough. There are lots of different interpretations and opinions and stances out there.......

Good to talk to ya!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

www.veteranstoday.com...

You really are a hardened killer, then. Wow. I just don't have the capacity to imagine thinking of humans ripped apart as "bugsplats" in a video game.

Sickening.

You know nothing about me or what I have done or not have done. YOU

Mrs PTSD-Suffering-Veteran -- yep! his wife, and his 'handler', his confidant and his best friend.

should be the last person to judge me, sad....

War is hard...1000s and 1000s of military people have left the force due to the hardness of war even when they were a couple of years away from retirement. Most of my drone experience is flying ISR support during special forces mission. Basically as over-watch to give them a large picture of what is around them, so you could say I was watching their backs and they were very happy that I was there....

On a side note.... Death is ugly and equal no matter if it comes from a bullet, mortar, rocket, 1000 pound bomb, cannon, knife, or even a hell fire missile off a drone.

a reply to: randyvs

thats exactly the aim of the article, pander and spread hate to the people who eat that sh## up.

I should really start surfing the internet and link any site that helps spread my prejudice, its actually really easy. Nevermind, I went to college

a reply to: Xtrozero

You know nothing about me or what I have done or not have done.

All I know is what you've posted here - how you are a badass career soldier guy who's perfectly fine with war and taking part in it whether enlisted or paid.

If I am mistaken, then please do enlighten me.
I just can't imagine anyone coming home from the carnage of war, regardless of whether they took an active combat or a supportive position, and being fine with it.

I really - just - can't. I can't imagine it. The veterans I know are ALL wrecks....and I have several in my family and my social circle.

I just really wonder how you do it. It must be rough. Or not.
You be you, and I'll be me -

that's all.
Sorry for your lot in life - but I'm sure you wouldn't want mine, either.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: TheJourney
I can't be the only one who saw this coming? THAT is what is truly terrifying about Christian fundentalist influence in the political realm...violent chaos in the Middle East, to them, is a signal for Jesus' return, and their salvation. THAT is scary. They have motivation to desire such things. This guy justt brought the thought forward openly. But it has seemed to me this would be a thought Christian fundamentalists would have for a while.

No, you're not the only one who saw this coming but not nearly enough of us did. It's the same reason that they don't care about the environment and want war, war, war.

What does the environment (local vegetation) have to do with armed humans trying to exterminate each other (some shrubberies die in the explosion aimed at some innocents house?).

You think the environment is limited to local vegetation? Obviously, a lack of concern about the environment and a lust for war, war, war fit right into the belief that Armageddon is right around the corner and "bring it on!"

Apparently you did not get "my funny" metaphor: the 'action irony' is the human being is blown to smithereens (hiding within the perceived safety of/in their own shrubbery).

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

All I know is what you've posted here - how you are a badass career soldier guy who's perfectly fine with war and taking part in it whether enlisted or paid.

Hmmm, it seems that you are the one labeling me, and I'm not sure your point in it all... I told you I do not have PTSD so I'm not sure how you take that further. I was never for Iraq and I think Afghanistan was even a worst waste of time, money and lives, but they happened/happening and so we all need to deal with it one way or another.

If I am mistaken, then please do enlighten me.
I just can't imagine anyone coming home from the carnage of war, regardless of whether they took an active combat or a supportive position, and being fine with it.

I think I told you in a prior post that everyone is affected differently. When 911 happened I already had 21 years in and had already went though every contingency/war since 1980, so I wasn't some fragile kid out of high school wanting to get all patriotic and all.

You be you, and I'll be me -

Yep good advice...

a reply to: Xtrozero

No, I was paraphrasing and extrapolating, based on this self-bio you did in your thread Is There True Evil in the Middle East?:

To tell a little bit about myself I'm a man of war. I was in the military for 28 years and been involved with just about every contingency, war, exercise since 1980. Even last year I was at 5 different forward operating bases in Afghanistan, and I'll most likely be back in Iraq in the near future.

I understand that you are inured to the aspects of war and military, and that you do not suffer from PTSD. I find it remarkable that any person could be in that profession and not be stressed by it - even if they don't "feel" traumatized.

So - you're a pilot and drone operator.
Recon and surveillance only? Or fighter jets and bomb-droppers? May I ask what your Title is, so I might go learn about what your duties would be? Have you ever killed anyone? Been shot at, shot down, or hit with an IED of any kind?

If I knew those things I could better understand where you are coming from.

In any case, I shall thank you for your service, and congratulate you on having been unfazed by it. At some point, however, you WERE a kid - and just boot camp itself is enough to mess up some young people. I would like a world where 'evil' is not met by 'evil'. War, in my opinion is Evil. So, yes - there is True Evil in the Middle East.
How does meeting violence with violence improve anything?

I'm not being flippant, and don't mean to disrespect you - just curious - like I would be about anyone having experienced any other number of perspectives and situations that I have no intention of seeking out, ever. As a mental health professional, that is MY passion - empathy and compassion for others, and helping them develop coping techniques or unlearn counterproductive reactivity.

I can shoot, and have been trained in rudimentary self-defense - so I'm no helpless damsel in distress, and I don't object to Americans being allowed to have guns. I hope to never have to use the ones at my disposal - but who knows what might happen?

Anyway - thanks for being interested in the philosophical aspects of the 21st century.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

I understand that you are inured to the aspects of war and military, and that you do not suffer from PTSD. I find it remarkable that any person could be in that profession and not be stressed by it - even if they don't "feel" traumatized.

So - you're a pilot and drone operator.
Recon and surveillance only? Or fighter jets and bomb-droppers? May I ask what your Title is, so I might go learn about what your duties would be? Have you ever killed anyone? Been shot at, shot down, or hit with an IED of any kind?

I spent most of my military career as a flight engineer on C-141s and C-130s with about 25 years doing a books worth of missions. My Drone experience was being embedded with "teams" that ranged from Recon "finding/calling out targets" surveillance "finding the bad guy". In both duties I contributed to many people living and in some cases dying.

I been shot at (you never forget the sound bullets whizzing by you)
I had mortars dropped on me daily at times, had one land about 15 feet away once but it was a dud. I remember just looking at it for a few seconds wondering why it didn't go off before I dived on the ground...hehe

I have seen a lot of blood and gore and even some really surreal events like the back of my plane full of hooded men floor stacked in as tight as they can get for a flight to be question. I have worked in a forward hospital where at times the floor was 1/2 inch of sticky blood, and I have seen real time death and destruction, but no I never shot anyone.

I'll save PTSD for the poor guys that spent a year in the towns going door to door, the vast majority of the rest I feel are working the system. I say "feel" because as I said before everyone has a different range, but I'm suspect of many.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Okay then. Thanks for clarifying.

a reply to: Xtrozero

In both duties I contributed to many people living and in some cases dying.

And that doesn't haunt you? That you contributed in some cases where many people died? Or am I misreading it - did you mean mostly you contributed to them living, but in some cases dying? Or that many lived but many also died?

I been shot at (you never forget the sound bullets whizzing by you)

It must be terrifying. And obviously not something you easily forget.

I had mortars dropped on me daily at times, had one land about 15 feet away once but it was a dud. I remember just looking at it for a few seconds wondering why it didn't go off before I dived on the ground...hehe

Seems you lead something of a 'charmed' life - what a relief that must have been! How long did you stay on the ground before you realized it was a dud? Were you frightened? Do you remember what went through your head at that moment?

I have seen a lot of blood and gore and even some really surreal events like the back of my plane full of hooded men floor stacked in as tight as they can get for a flight to be question.

People you later delivered to some black-ops detention center? Or even the famous ones where people are known to have been tortured?

Did you ever wonder what happened to those men packed like blind sardines, or cattle, heading for a nightmare?

I have worked in a forward hospital where at times the floor was 1/2 inch of sticky blood, and I have seen real time death and destruction, but no I never shot anyone.

All of that stuff would have broken my spirit AND my heart. I've never seen "gore" - but I was present at a ceasarian section with a Mexican woman who couldn't speak English - she asked me to be there as her interpreter and friend...

My experiences can't possibly compare with yours - but I still think war is evil, and I don't mind one bit that a Mexican woman received good care and her baby was delivered safely. It was a privilege to be there when the new human arrived!

Anyway - thanks again. Just wanted to add a bit to our dialogue.

Has anyone seen this documentary? from Framingtheworld.com

New World Order Bible Verses

Very good documentary.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
And that doesn't haunt you? That you contributed in some cases where many people died? Or am I misreading it - did you mean mostly you contributed to them living, but in some cases dying? Or that many lived but many also died?

I done a lot of life saving missions, some helping 10,000s to live at times, I have also called out targets to die. These targets were not civilians herding their goats, they were in full combat mode trying to get to our guys, so no they do not haunt me.

Seems you lead something of a 'charmed' life - what a relief that must have been! How long did you stay on the ground before you realized it was a dud? Were you frightened? Do you remember what went through your head at that moment?

What went though my mind was "why didn't it blow up?" but it was not uncommon for many to not blow. I actually was not on the ground very long, maybe 10 seconds before I decided to get away and mark the area for EOD to get it. I was shot at when I was at a forward operating base and I was higher than the outer HESCOs Walls doing some work and I guess I became a target of opportunity.

People you later delivered to some black-ops detention center? Or even the famous ones where people are known to have been tortured?

A good friend of mine and a top Polygrapher spent maybe 4 or 5 tours at Abu Ghraib and some other places. They were basically interviewed and either set free or moved to the next stage of polygraphed and asked questions. What we saw with "torture" or "extreme stress positions" was really only used on the few that were identified as have real information we needed, rather rare.

Did you ever wonder what happened to those men packed like blind sardines, or cattle, heading for a nightmare?

I felt sorry for them. We would cover the entire floor with plastic because they would piss and crap. I was first told that they did it out of spite but after many missions (30 plus) they did it because they had to. One guy would not get on the plane and was yelling. I asked the Interpreter what was his problem and he told me the guy had to pee. I told the handler to just let him pee in the dirt and the guy was like F that and grab him and threw him on the plane to later complain the "dogs were pissing all over the place". My thoughts were that if these guys were not anti-America they will be in the near future.

I know what happened to them...

They where interrogated then set free or imprisoned. Those set free were 100s of miles from where they needed to go and in many cases were killed by other Muslim factions as they tried to get back to their faction area. If a Sunni or Shiite somehow ended up in the others territory it was typically a death sentence.

Anyway - thanks again. Just wanted to add a bit to our dialogue.

Ya war is ugly anyway you look at it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

My thoughts were that if these guys were not anti-America they will be in the near future.

And that's exactly what happened.

I know what happened to them...

They where interrogated then set free or imprisoned.

I'm glad you felt some sympathy for them. But I do understand better now, and thanks again. I don't want ANYONE being shot at, or imprisoned and interrogated, or transported on planes while hooded and evacuating out of sheer terror, or having mortar shells dropped on them. Is that wrong?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
I'm glad you felt some sympathy for them. But I do understand better now, and thanks again. I don't want ANYONE being shot at, or imprisoned and interrogated, or transported on planes while hooded and evacuating out of sheer terror, or having mortar shells dropped on them. Is that wrong?

It is not wrong to think that, but it is what it is though, can't change that.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It is not wrong to think that, but it is what it is though, can't change that.

Well - I used to be one of those who said "Yes, we can change that - if we all focus on it."
But I'm now aware that no matter how many of us want it, it really won't change.

Thanks again.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Xtrozero

It is not wrong to think that, but it is what it is though, can't change that.

Well - I used to be one of those who said "Yes, we can change that - if we all focus on it."
But I'm now aware that no matter how many of us want it, it really won't change.

Thanks again.

Not that there's much chance that most people will take action to change this, but what makes you think if that did happen it (and what do you mean by it) could not be changed?