Gay - Not a choice but not born that way.

I know a kid in highschool that eventually came out of the closet. His father was a very involved, loving one. His father was the shop teacher. The kid had other brothers who were straight.

I don't think absent fathers or heavy feminine influence can "make" a gay person.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Sure...... If it feels good do it! Whatever makes for individual happiness! Screw the greater good. I don't care what adults do behind closed doors and I'm all for gay people marrying, equal rights under the law whatever. But don't force me to accept homosexuality as normal! It's not! A lot of things aren't normal in life. Doesn't mean that we should ridicule and ostracize. Live and let live but don't push a homosexual agenda onto my children. That's what I don't get about homosexuals. I don't believe for a second it's healthy or preferable to raise kids in a homosexual household but that's my opinion and in entitled to it. I wouldn't ever pass a law to prevent homosexuals from doing so either. And for every normal homosexual male I've ever met or befriended, or worked with ive met twice as many who were hyper sexual, abused as kids, and suffering from some insidious childhood issues. That's just my personal observation and I'm entitled to it.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

You don't know everything about the person. Look at the Penn State coach that was raping boys in the shower. Again lots of kids including gay men have been molested as kids.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

Thats fine but i dont view homosexuality as abnormal and i dont bring u my kids that way. Mine are 7 and 5 and they've already been told girls can have girlfriends and boys can have boyfriends, and they are free to love who they choose.
At least we can see these question will go onto the next generation as you bring your kids up your way and i bring mine up my way.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: arpgme

I just think it's funny... All this modern chest shaving and pube shaving. Twenty years ago men were hairy and sweaty and smelly. Now they're as smooth as a babies bum and smell of all sorts of spicey aftershave!

That's just a style thing - 200/300 years ago, it was very common for men to carry lacy handkerchiefs, wear stockings and high heels, lacy collars and long curly wigs. Styles come and go.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

What do you mean, specifically, when you refer to "a homosexual agenda"?

Thank you kindly for your answer.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

What do you mean, specifically, when you refer to "a homosexual agenda"?

Thank you kindly for your answer.

The homosexual agenda is part of shoving liberal progressive ideas down the throats of ordinary Americans who don't want kindergarteners taught about anal sex or how to put a condom on a banana. Moreover it's closely tied and often attached to the growing cult of multiculturalism, diversity and political correctness. If I don't embrace homosexuality I'm somehow homophobic, a bigot, conservative, uptight, less enlightened, whatever! I'm sick of it. I believe adults can do whatever they like. Homosexuality is like religion or Santa Clause. I'll bring up my kids within a realm of values and tradition I think are important and ideal. When they are old enough to think and act on their own I will have hoped I've given them the tools to navigate their world, different cultures and beliefs without losing sight of their own. This includes the values of a normal traditional family with a feminine mother and a masculine father. Call me stone age, outdated, etc. It's my belief system.

I'm in a weird position. I have nothing at all against gays. Lol, if people only knew. But the truth is I don't know whether it's genetic or environmental or both. I would not be surprised if some people turned gay over several years in response to trauma or even (albeit understandable) choices. I have no preconceived beliefs about them. Whereas, a lot of people I meet, either outright reject it as wrong, or they will not accept any possibility of it being a choice. It's rare to find someone who's actually open to both sides.

I don't think it's wrong. Beyond that, I don't know. And yet there's something else too. What do I think about gay marriage? Should two married gay men or woman receive the same benefits as a married heterosexual couple? On this I'm uncertain because there might be a subtle benefit on the child (or adopted child) if the parents are heterosexual. So I'm hesitant. Just because I don't know doesn't mean I won't make a judgement on something.

(And yes a gay friend would immediatley point out all the heterosexual-derived divorces, broken familyies, abused children and so on.)

One of the saddest things to me is gay people who think it's wrong because they're religious. It's harmful, unneeded shame.

I think I'm progressive on some things and conservative on others.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

And I will raise my kids with the understanding that throughout history a man has loved a woman and produced off spring. This is the natural order of the universe. Some human beings are wired differently for whatever reason. It's not my place to judge. My kids will respect the individual rights and freedom of everyone but I nor they have to accept homosexuality as normal. It's not normal. If it were normal the human race would have died out thousands of years ago. What is so hard for homosexuals to understand that? If I was born without legs would I teach my kids that's biologically normal? Of course not. Is it normal to be autistic? In some people's warped mind it is. We must have compassion, empathy and respect for those that are different but I don't have to teach my kids it's normal.

good thread and great discussion and points made in the OP. Thanks!

I tend to think that being gay is also not a choice, despite what Carson says. I think it's a mix of genetics and other factors. But to think that you wake up and choose which sex you will be attracted to that day is absurd.

I woke up this morning and...it was women again. I didn't choose to be attracted to them, it's just how it is. I have no choice in the matter.

a reply to: jonnywhite

It's not like gay couples don't divorce! They go through the same trials and tribulations of a relationship any heterosexual couples go through. As if being gay makes relationships any easier. Many gay relationships have a dominant and submissive partner that kind of equates to a male female model. Just give it time.....married gay couples will end up just as divorced as hetero couples , they are just not as plentiful yet.

Many kids raised by gay parents have no choice in the matter. That's one reason why I'm against gay couples adopting or having kids but I wouldn't make it illegal.

m.cnsnews.com...

A: the problem with this whole "gay OR straight" "born OR learned" thing is that it's a ridiculously shallow false dichotomy.
Human sexuality is naturally a fluid, dynamic spectrum - not one of two labelled boxes to sit quietly in.
Unfortunately we live in a society obsessed with labels and keeping people in their place, that can/does leverage MASSIVE social capital to the upkeep of the status quo.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

How will you respond if one of your children come out as homosexual? Will you accept and love them just the same, or put them through some kind of emotional hell instead, and reject them and who they are?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy


What I have told my daughter is that it IS normal for a certain percentage of the population to be homosexual, just like it is normal for a certain percentage of the population to be left-handed. Regardless of how we theorize the reason for it, the percentage has remained largely unchanged since the beginning of recorded history. THAT makes it a normal occurrence. What would be abnormal is if the percentage of homosexuals jumps up to 50% or more of the population, which is what I think so many are illogically afraid of. If it hasn't happened in a couple of thousand years, I think we can safely say it won't happen in the next 2000 years.

So I have taught my daughter that she shouldn't think of homosexuality as being any more or less abnormal than being left-handed.

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
Many kids raised by gay parents have no choice in the matter. That's one reason why I'm against gay couples adopting or having kids but I wouldn't make it illegal.

m.cnsnews.com...

Oh boy, that website isn't biased at all, is it.

Many kids raised by heterosexual parents who aren't very good at being parents have no choice in the matter either. That's why I'm against bad heterosexual parents adopting or having kids. It goes both ways.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yeah as if being left handed is even in the same realm of being homosexual. Good lord what a stupid comparison. No one knows what causes homosexuality. Until we do it's a circular debate. So what if a certain percent of the population has always been homosexual that doesn't make it biologically normal or even psychologically healthy! Is autism normal and psychologically healthy to you?

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
a reply to: kaylaluv

Yeah as if being left handed is even in the same realm of being homosexual. Good lord what a stupid comparison. No one knows what causes homosexuality. Until we do it's a circular debate. So what if a certain percent of the population has always been homosexual that doesn't make it biologically normal or even psychologically healthy! Is autism normal and psychologically healthy to you?

Well I think homosexuality and autism is a stupid comparison. Homosexuals have no trouble being around and socializing with other people, or working at jobs or attending normal classes at school. You could say the exact same thing about left-handers, but you CAN'T say the exact same thing about autistics.

a reply to: kaylaluv

You should be against adoption period because the child has no say in the matter AT ALL. Maybe that child would have wanted to grow up with their brothers and sisters no matter how bad and dysfunctional their parents are/were.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

Feminine mother and masculine father? Think thays the creepiest thing out of all the creepy things you said.