Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

We are in deep shat if,
who you date or marry is not considered a choice.

Btw for all the idiots, masturbation is a choice too.
It's not like some one is holding a gun to your head.

Bottom line,
some people think and govern with their brains,
then there are those that let their dicks do their thinking.
(brainless)

. . . . . .

a reply to: ToneDeaf

“Don't knock masturbation. It's sex with someone you love.”

Woody Allen

Why is it called Sexual Orientation after all ?
Orientation is a familiarization / conditioning due to environment.

woody was, a self-serving perv, has been, as saville was., no
need to quote.
'holly-wood' and the BBC tends to fantasize beyond any civilized good.


. . . . . .

a reply to: ToneDeaf

Didn't know but him but a little googling showed...sad story indeed.

originally posted by: agenda51
This will really crack you up. Every girl I have ever slept with....I had them go get tested before we did anything. i think out of the five or maybe six girlfriends i had there was only one who didnt and we broke up.

I do hope you extended the same courtesy to those girls and had

yourself tested too??

Or

Did you expect them to actually believe that you had been

celibate?? Now that would really *crack me up*

Wow, well that thread took some reading. Whilst I can see that some gay people have posted I thought I would give my point of view as a gay woman.

So is being gay a choice? I don't know.

All I know is that from the earliest age, perhaps 7 or 8 years old, I can remember being drawn to women. Before I even knew what sex was I had an "attraction" towards female teachers/staff. I would, for want of a better word, "show-off" and try to impress them. I had no idea what sex was at that age.

As I got older I still didn't develop an attraction to boys. I would get "crushes" on girls at school and even at that point there was no thought of sex. I never discussed my feelings with anyone and tried to go on as normal and basically just didn't have any interest in boys.

I went to university, there were LGBT groups (all that was in its infancy) but I remained firm that I was just going to ignore it. I didn't know anyone that was gay and was just going to get on with life. Again I had "crushes" on girls at uni but never came across anyone in my social circle that I even suspected was like me. I was all alone and never spoke about how I felt. I did not want to be gay.

I met a lovely lad at uni who really liked me and I tried to begin something with him but it just didn't feel right. I wasn't disgusted by him and kissing him wasn't bad but I certainly didn't want to take it any further. I realised I wasn't bothered so broke it off before it went anywhere because he was a really nice person who deserved to be with someone who thought he was as special as he obviously thought I was. That was the one and only "boyfriend" I ever had and at this point I was about 21 years old.

I finished uni, moved back in with my parents and a close friend from school returned from travelling. She admitted to me that she had been attracted to one particular girl when travelling and this girl was a lesbian - she felt that it was just this one girl and that she was probably bi-sexual. Finally I had someone I could talk to. I also said I felt the same - it seems that the bi-sexual label is easier to start with rather than the all out gay thing. I still didn't know what to do. Through a chance meeting with a friend of a friend on an evening out, I got my first girlfriend. I was 23.

To cut an already long story, short(er). I have been with my current partner for 12 years. We had a civil partnership which we upgraded to a "marriage" in December last year. I am not "out" to my work colleagues. I have been at my place of employment for about 15 years and, whilst attitudes have changed, I wouldn't dream of opening up about it because I still hear negative comments about gay people. I sometimes feel bad, like I am lying by omission when they talk about their husbands etc. I am sure some of them have an idea but I am probably just seen as an old spinster who is happy being on her own. Little do they know I am in a very committed relationship and have been for over a decade.

I never felt like this was a choice. At one point, I would have given anything to have been "normal" - the reason I use that word is because. No one else was like me growing up, it wasn't as prevalent in the media and certainly not something that was accepted in the community I lived in. All I know is that I didn't want to feel this way. I was resigned to being alone as I didn't think I would ever find someone living where I live.

Did my upbringing make me this way?

I grew up with a mum and dad and brother. We were a "normal" family. I wasn't abused. My family aren't ones for affection but I know without doubt that they love me. I was closer to my mum than my dad as he worked all hours but would that make me gay? I don't know. I have felt an attraction to women for as long as I can remember, I have never felt any other way. I would love to have chosen differently but well, I am what I am.

I am not one for the gay scene and looking at me, you wouldn't "know" that I was gay. As a couple, we are very private and are happy that way. I know people have said that they don't like it being shoved down their throats and I can understand that point of view but it would be nice to be able to share my life with my friends at work. I don't feel like they can ever be true friends unless they know this important thing about me. No it doesn't change who I am but it's a key part of my life, none-the-less.

My "wife" (sorry if that offends) is a different kettle of fish and might support the nurture argument. When I read the thread we discussed whether or not being gay was a choice. Her early memories of attraction to women, were similar to mine but her childhood was very different. Her mother was not a loving or affectionate mother. Her father died in a car crash when she was 7 years old. Her mother made no secret of how abusive her father was and somehow seemed to blame her, it also didn't help that she was the spitting image of her father. My missus was born with a jaw deformity which was very noticeable. Her mother would point out that she was ugly and that no one would love her. She was also the least favoured child. I believe she suffered emotional abuse when she was in those formative years. I could see why she would choose (albeit subconsciously) to be attracted to women, to replace the mother that she never had.

So in conclusion, I don't feel like I chose this life. And even though I am happy currently, it isn't without its stresses. Both my wife and I have often said that if we could have been "normal" we probably would have chosen to be straight, simply because life would have been easier. It hurts to read people comparing the way I feel to a paedophile. I understand that both are a deviation from the norm but I would never hurt anyone and the love I share with my wife is as good and as strong as the love that any of you share with your husbands or wives.

Peace and Love,

Scally x

a reply to: Scallywwagg

Excellent post- thanks for sharing that.

Your story reminds me of a very good friend I had in middle and high school. I never suspected it back then, but looking back, I think she was probably gay. I was always crushing on some boy, but she never talked about boys in that way. She was fairly masculine and never got involved with any boy at school. I remember her telling me once that after tennis practice at school, she went back to the shower room and caught two girls making out. Something about the way she told the story made me think she was making it up. Now, I believe she was telling me this to see what my reaction was. If I reacted like, "whatever, who cares", I think she might have opened up to me. Unfortunately (this was in the 1970's), as an immature 16-year-old, I said something like, "that's gross". I truly wish I could turn back time and react a different way. I am definitely not attracted to girls, but I wish I could have been the type of friend that she could have opened up to at least. It's one of my biggest regrets that I wasn't there for her.

It makes me so sad to think that gay people don't feel free to talk to friends or co-workers about their personal lives. It just creates such an atmosphere of separateness and loneliness. It is getting better than it was in the 70's, but we have a ways to go yet.

a reply to: Scallywwagg

I'm sorry if my previous comment offended or hurt you in any way, as that was most certainly not my intent. It pains me to think of my words having a negative effect on anyone.

The subject came up, and my only point was that perhaps there is no choice for some (or all) people when it comes to who they are attracted to.

a reply to: RobinB022

No not at all. Looking at things completely objectively I believe that perhaps a mix of predisposition/nature/genetics and environment/nurture may play a part in why I feel the way I do. It's a deviation from the norm and not necessarily a choice I have made but it's there all the same.

I feel perhaps paedophiles are a product of abusive childhoods/environment and it's not necessarily a genetic thing (not that I have researched this.) However acting on those feelings is another thing and I have to agree with the poster who talked about mutual consent. I know I can't change how I feel and scarily I am not sure that paedophiles can change how they feel either. I saw a programme about a guy who was disgusted about how he felt towards children and he hadn't acted upon it. He wanted help but what help is really available?

What is the answer? I don't know.

a reply to: Scallywwagg

I sure hope you got applause for that post.
Thank you for sharing your story.
It was a brave thing to do in the face of such negativity.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

It's probably definitional thing nobody has gotten around to clearing up. If by "being gay" one means "engaging in sexual acts with with same sex" then it's obviously a choice, just as much as engaging in sexual acts with the opposite sex is. If by "being gay" one means "being attracted to the same sex" then I don't think one has much say in that, although the human mind is a very powerful thing.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Eh... It's all a choice. Sexuality is about, well, sexual relations. Even if one has the urge or temptation naturally, as with most urges and temptations, it is what's a choice to act on it. I used to sleep around with women because of natural urges, but it was a choice. Some could say that I was born to be a male slut. I was born naturally addicted to eating too much too, but I have to control myself.

In my post, which granted was lengthy, sex very rarely came up, my first feelings arose when I knew nothing about sex, what it entailed or even what it was. For me, being gay is about who I love. Before you all shoot me down, yes I understand sexual attraction but it's really about who we choose to love or perhaps who we can't help but fall in love with.

originally posted by: Scallywwagg
In my post, which granted was lengthy, sex very rarely came up, my first feelings arose when I knew nothing about sex, what it entailed or even what it was. For me, being gay is about who I love. Before you all shoot me down, yes I understand sexual attraction but it's really about who we choose to love or perhaps who we can't help but fall in love with.

But, your natural attraction was to women. That you didn't choose.

Choice came in on which woman.

a reply to: Annee

Of course you are right but I just find it sad that when people think gay, they just think sex, they don't think about loving relationships and all that it entails.

originally posted by: Scallywwagg

I am not one for the gay scene and looking at me, you wouldn't "know" that I was gay. As a couple, we are very private and are happy that way. I know people have said that they don't like it being shoved down their throats and I can understand that point of view but it would be nice to be able to share my life with my friends at work. I don't feel like they can ever be true friends unless they know this important thing about me. No it doesn't change who I am but it's a key part of my life, none-the-less.

I think this is one of the most Importent points you made in your long post. It should not be missed.

I think it actually represents what the majority of gay couples are. They, like everyone else, just want to live their lives.

Those who love to claim gays flaunt their sexuality ----- obviously avoid places like the beach with all those hot young teeny boppers in string bikinis and the tanned shirtless dudes ogling them.

I didn't read the op, because the question isn't directed at me. I just thought I'd stop by and say that it's pathetic people try to speak for gay people, when they aren't gay and really have no idea what they're talking about. If a gay man tells me it's not a choice.. it's not a damn choice. Only indoctrinated bigotry would make think they are lying about this.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
If being gay is a choice as some would have us believe, then does that mean at some point in their life they were attracted to both sexes but chose to like the opposite?

Is that not the premise of choosing to be gay or straight..attraction to both sexes but choosing the preference of the opposite while fighting their attraction to the same.

I don't know about other people but I have always liked women..never once was I attracted to another man...never once did I have to make a choice between men or women.

I can honestly say I was born that way..

So why is it any different for gay people?

Being gay is not a choice. It is how an individual was born or how they evolved over their lifetime. Yes...that came from me.

Now...what I have never quite understood and maybe never will is this. If someone is gay they are attracted to a type of person that isn't "the norm" for them. Yes...usually men are attracted to women, etc. So in my mind, being gay is more of a "who attracts you" than "how you were born" as with transsexuals. And if being gay is indeed a matter of attraction, and considering it was frowned upon in the past...I don't really understand how it is different than someone who is into any other "not the majority" sexual act or attraction. I don't understand how a man being attracted to men is much different than a hetro man being attracted to women that are heavy...or women that are of a different race, etc.

But it seems like the gay community sees themselves as something different than that. Again, if it is simply attraction which it appears to be since a gay person doesn't wish to change their sex...how is it different or how is it not just the subject of your attraction? And if it is simply attraction...why does the gay community see a need to protest or parade, etc. when other people with "different than normal" attractions do not.

a reply to: Bone75

The love between two people of the same sex is abnormal? Why? Because a book written by closed minded individuals who bowed to a mass murdering god with a fixation for hacking off children's foreskin ' s says so, and this garbage has influenced how we teach our children and mould there views of morality. This line of intolerance has been used to justify persecution, rejection and murder of those who's only 'crime' was to love another of the same sex.

I know you never mentioned religion in your post, and it is not my intention to derail the thread. But would you consider the possibility that without these restrictive views we would not be even having this debate? Or you view on those whom lifestyle you find abnormal be different?

originally posted by: thepitpony
a reply to: Bone75

The love between two people of the same sex is abnormal? Why?

"Abnormal: adjective. Deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable or worrying." - My dictionary.

Definitionally, homosexuality is abnormal because it deviates from the statistical norm of heterosexuality. Whether or not that is undesirable or worrying is based on an individual's own views.